Research-Confused

[boobiman]

hey guys,

 

need some advice. Im not too informed about the whole research deal so wondering if you guys can help. So I had this interview today with a doctor at a govt funded brand name research institute. It looks as if she is willing to keep me but heres the problem.

 

-The research position is going to be volunteering not paid

-Huge time commitment 9-5 for 3 months

-The commute takes a good hour and a half

-Cant take orgo or study for the mcat (no i cant handle both research and other stuff)

 

What should i do? Also, how does the publication thing work? Should I ask her about it?

 

Thanks

 

ps. Im pretty sure there a sticky or thread out there that explains all this buut i realized this after typing the above so might as well press the submit button. lol

[boobiman]

just read the sticky, but would still like your inputs please. Also, is it fine if I just ask her if my name would be included if there was a slight possibility of a publication?

[future_doc]

I have no experience whatsoever in research, so I am not much help there. I have just interviewed for 3 med schools in Quebec where essentially all you need is excellent academics and to be alive, lol, to get to the interview stage.

 

FRom what you say, I believe your priority is MCAT. I spent 3 mo fulltime las tsummer studying for MCATs, my studies are science based, I am a straight A student, and I did not do well on MCAT. So, outside Que, except for U/Ottawa and one other, MCAT is required and this is your priority.

 

Assuming I am right, and if you would be better off not doing this research position with the horrensous daily commute, you can make your demands b/c you really don't care and you are in a strong position. Of course, you can be dismissed by the potential researcher, then again, she may need you badly and be prepared to bend.

 

Personally, I wouldn't take it as it can ruin your pathway. Be careful what you wish for b/c you may get it. What if you receive an offer? Will you take it? Trwad carefully. MCAT for you is essential. Research is merely icing on a cake - but if you poorly on MCAT, there may be icing, but the cake is not in great shape.

 

My 2 cents! Good luck.

[mattg]

Hey boobiman,

 

I don't know much about you - what year you're in, how your marks are, etc - but assuming you need to write the MCAT this summer, and you are saying you can't take orgo or write the mcat, I would say it is a pretty simple choice... don't do it... firstly, I know some people do it, but I myself couldn't justify working 40 hours a week for no pay... if your marks are good, there are a ton of scholarship opportunities for summer research (ie. NSERC, tons of hospitals have programs to apply to, etc)... too late for those now I guess, but I would do what you need to do with the mcat and orgo, and try to get a paying research job next summer, while maybe volunteering in a lab throughout the year, or maybe doing a research project for a course... if you wanted to, I guarantee you could find a ton of docs who would be willing to take on a part-time research volunteer (if you look hard enough), such that you could work maybe 1-2 days a week, and still get your name on a paper - while doing the other things you need to do... regardless, publications are far from being a necessity for getting in to med school... if you are wondering whether or not you would get on a publication in this lab, I would say probably yes, volunteering 40 hours/week

 

If you're really set on doing this research, and are upset about not being able to do study for the mcat as well, it is very doable to do both... many people study for the mcat in addition to a full-time job, as long as you put in the hours (you'd have a pretty boring summer though lol)... putting in 4 hours or so a night, for 3 months, as well as more time on weekends, (and i assume you have a free additional month as well?) is more than enough time to prep if you are up to it... even if you don't do as well as you'd like, you could just rewrite next year... and if you are volunteering in a research position, i doubt there would be any work for you to take home (by that i mean i'm guessing you be doing 99% grunt work... probably not going to be involved in any lit reviewing or writing or anything as a volunteer... but i could be wrong)

 

that's just my opinion

 

let me know if you have any specific questions if you'd like... i've done summer research for 2 summers - 1 through NSERC, and 1 through a scholarship program at Sunnybrook... don't do it for a publication, because there a is a decent chance you won't get one out of it (or at least not for a while)

 

matt

 

hey guys,

 

need some advice. Im not too informed about the whole research deal so wondering if you guys can help. So I had this interview today with a doctor at a govt funded brand name research institute. It looks as if she is willing to keep me but heres the problem.

 

-The research position is going to be volunteering not paid

-Huge time commitment 9-5 for 3 months

-The commute takes a good hour and a half

-Cant take orgo or study for the mcat (no i cant handle both research and other stuff)

 

What should i do? Also, how does the publication thing work? Should I ask her about it?

 

Thanks

 

ps. Im pretty sure there a sticky or thread out there that explains all this buut i realized this after typing the above so might as well press the submit button. lol

[future_doc]

I diaagree with mattg on the score that the research and studying for MCAT are both doable this summer b/c based upon my experience, it is not doable, then then that is my experience.

[boobiman]

its just that this is a brand name research institute (i dont want to give away the name). And I literally know 100's of people apply here even to volunteer. Also, the doctor there told me that the the director of the institute can according to her "open a lot of doors" for me (im assuming in terms of reference letters. etc)

 

Im just finishing my second year right now. And about the managing both things at once, im pretty sure I wont be able to. How about studying a little bit over this summer, then doing review over the course of my third year and then writing it early after 3rd year summer and then applying?

 

ps. matt in terms of my marks I had a 3.45ish first and 3.9-4.0 this year. so we are looking at about a cgpa of abt 3.7ish by the end of this year depending on how bad i screwed up that physics exam lol.

[mattg]

With regards to future_doc's comment, I have to say it definitely depends on the person... some could do it (many have), some would not be able to do it... regardless, it is definitely "doable" (and has been done by me and many people i know)... that said, it's not fun lol

 

with regards to your mcat plan, i highly doubt you would carry through with that... i have never heard of anyone studying the summer before, and then throughout school, to write it at the beginning on the summer... i would bet anything that your schoolwork would take over mcat studying

 

the thing i'm confused about, is regardless of whether or not doors are opened, what are you going to do with it? if you are going to be studying for the mcat next time (which believe me, you will... you won't studying throughout the year, but hey, prove me wrong ), then you won't be able to do research next summer, so any opened doors won't be of much use... otherwise, if you got the mcat and orgo out of the way this summer, in addition to getting your foot in the door, volunteering somewhere doing research (but <<40 hours a week), then you could apply for a research scholarship next summer... you can get one pretty easily if you get 3.9+ again next year... then not only are you getting paid 4-6K for your work, but you have a scholarship for your resume as well

 

why dont you ask this researcher if he/she will let you work part-time this summer... are you assuming they will say no, or have you actually asked? that way, you could do everything (if you don't think you can handle full-time resesarch + mcat)

 

i dunno, it's up to you... sounds like you're going to end up doing the research... maybe its a good idea... whatever you think is best for you

[mattg]

don't worry about brand names... it doesn't mean much to volunteer as an undergrad at a "brand name" place... not even sure what you mean by that... a hospital? SickKids or something? research anywhere is good... it all depends on what you get out of it... if you get a legit research experience, a potential publication, etc, it doesn't matter where you did it... no one will care... if you're pipetting at a brand name place for 3 months, the brand name won't do much for you (but I don't know what you are set up to do there)... it might just be me, but I can't really think of any places in Toronto (if you're here, that is) that are really far above other research institutes... there's so many... unless it's somewhere like Harvard, or Hopkins, I really don't think volunteering at a brand name research institute is as unreal as you think it is

 

Also, I would look further into the director opening a lot of doors for you comment... it might have just been a generic nice thing to say... I really can't see the director of the institute doing much to help a summer volunteer in a big way... it'll really be all about what your supervisor can do for you, in my opinion... he/she would be your reference letter writer

 

its just that this is a brand name research institute (i dont want to give away the name). And I literally know 100's of people apply here even to volunteer. Also, the doctor there told me that the the director of the institute can according to her "open a lot of doors" for me (im assuming in terms of reference letters. etc)

 

Im just finishing my second year right now. And about the managing both things at once, im pretty sure I wont be able to. How about studying a little bit over this summer, then doing review over the course of my third year and then writing it early after 3rd year summer and then applying?

 

ps. matt in terms of my marks I had a 3.45ish first and 3.9-4.0 this year. so we are looking at about a cgpa of abt 3.7ish by the end of this year depending on how bad i screwed up that physics exam lol.

[future_doc]

why dont you ask this researcher if he/she will let you work part-time this summer...that way, you could do everything

 

sounds good to me! Also, there is no rush for MCAT this summer, you can do it next August. Whatever you decide to do, you willregret taking on your than you can realistically handle.

[shannn]

Buck up

 

Commute + Full time work + MCAT is something many people do in a summer.

[leap87]

Is this a huge project or a small pilot study? The reason why I'm asking is because you asked about publishing. Do you care if you're the first author or you just want your name on the journal article?

 

It takes time to adjust to the lab and get to know the area of your research very well. Even the brightest of students who did NSERC over the summer in my lab took about 2-3 weeks to adjust and really dig their claws into the research. However, most of them worked with a Ph.D. student, so the project they were doing was very minimal. Most of them got their name on the publication but as a 3rd, 4th or maybe even 5th author.

 

Keep in mind that you can only publish if your study is publishable. Don't aim for publishing something that is scientifically wrong, because in the end, it doesn't matter how much you published. If the research you've published is crap, it will be looked upon in that way. So big deal that you got your name on it! You see where I'm going with this? You've got to be careful about how you approach it.

 

Since it's volunteering, it better be a very good place which will open up many doors because otherwise you're wasting your summer away and valuable time. Sometimes "doctors" tend to say stuff like "oh this will give you many opportunities" to draw you in, but you end up getting nothing out of it. Do you know this person well or have you just met them?

 

Btw, mattg, Sick Kids usually pays their students over the summer.

[MedIn2010]

Buck up

 

Commute + Full time work + MCAT is something many people do in a summer.

 

I did this and was very happy with my score. Can you study during your commute? Thats what I did, and it would get you 3hr a day!

[dr_horrible]

I did this too and had the same result! But I do agree with mattg about the fact that how people do with research + MCAT is really person dependent.

 

I think the position would be a good chance to get a taste of what research is like, as well as to possibly get some references.

 

But I also think if you enter the position aiming/hoping for a publication, you might end up frusturated and disappointed. I've been in and out of the lab I'm working in now for just over 3 years, and have published a couple times. From the whole experience, the 1 thing I can say, is that when it comes to publishing, NOTHING is guaranteed!

 

First, you have to have the luck to get the kind of results that would be publishable. Then, you have to submit to your choice of journals. And even then, nothing is guaranteed! I know so many people who have written these awesome papers, and had them rejected. Or your paper may be accepted, but require months of revisions before it can be.

 

This is sounding kind of depressing, and by no means am I saying it will be impossible to get a publication. Just that it's a hard road to get there.

 

I did this and was very happy with my score. Can you study during your commute? Thats what I did, and it would get you 3hr a day!

[charmer08]

ask her if you can do it part time

[boobiman]

thanks guys, she is going to let me know by today. I will definately ask for the part time thing if its unpaid. I really need to re-consider some things.

[Starling]

Buck up

 

Commute + Full time work + MCAT is something many people do in a summer.

 

+1

 

It is kind of dodgy that she wants you to do that much unpaid though.

[shannn]

I wouldn't say it is dodgy. It is kind of late to be taking on a summer student (most spots fill up around December - February). You are lucky you are being given a chance in her lab.

 

Who wouldn't want free help? Especially with research (which is often underfunded)

[lovestruck]

I'm doing this this summer (research + MCAT +45 minute commute). If your getting paid, I think it's alright. Also if you have a supervisor that is willing to be flexible with giving you time off/adjusting your schedule. For example, I work however many hours I want. I'll usually put in 8 hours but if I feel like logging a 5 hour day, my supervisor is fine with it.

 

However, I think asking you to volunteer 40 hours a week is taking advantage of you. She gets free labor and lots of it and your chances of publishing, especially if your only there for 3 months are not very high. Yes it's possible, but difficult and with that short period of time, depending on the research at hand, you just might not have enough time to get any publishable results. If you can do it partime or such, then it's worth it.

 

The 1.5hr commute will SUCK! I worked last year at a job that took me 2 hours to bus to and 2 hours to bus home (only 30 minute car ride but I don't have a car unfortunately) and it was terrible! That's like working a 12 hour day everyday.The only reason I stuck with the job, despite the awful commute was because it was $30/hr pay, so I while it may be a great opportunity, the lack of pay and long commute would make me more leery to take it then the 8 hours a day that you actually need to commit to.

[ericl]

I would say getting the academics stuff out of the way first (ochem and MCAT) and do a good job of it too so then you can at least be eligible for the schools you want to apply for. Publishing can always come later and besides, lots of students get in without publishing anything.