mystery_chick Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 So the big day has come and gone and May 15 is literally tomorrow. I had the good fortunes of getting into both UofT and UWO in addition to Vandy. (feeling very lucky at the moment) but now I'm faced with this impossible decision! There's a number of pros and cons for each school, so here's some thoughts (and correct me if i'm assuming wrongly): Vandy: Pros: - it's a kick ass school with kick ass facilities. - Class of just over 100 - Friendly staff and faculty, I got a "big family" feel while I was there - The students test well and do well on the USMLEs, they all match very well - The students are happy Cons: - it's far away from home - it's expensive - Potential future visa problems - not a lot of clinical components until 3rd and 4th year UWO: Pros: - It's MUCH cheaper than going to Vandy - It's got a medium size class - Great clinical components in the curriculum - UWO grads match very well through CaRMs - Very spirited, cohesive, involved students, which I really like Cons: - I've already been here for four years, do I want to stay for another four? - The facilities are sub par compared to Vandy - Anatomy dissections does not seem to be as intensive - London for another four years? UofT: Pros: - It's got the name - It'll be cheaper than Vandy but not as cheap as UWO - It's in a really fun and exciting city - They have a LOT of research opportunity which will be great for me if I want to specialize later - Anatomy dissections! - They've got some of the BEST hospitals in the country all very close by Cons: - HUGE class size, that didn't seem to be so cohesive during my interview day (some of the students I was talking to didn't know other students name!) - Because there's so many people, clerks don't get to do as much compared to Vandy or UWo - Similarly, the clinical components aren't as strong compared to UWO - The students are tested a lot and seemed quite stressed while I was there Which one would you pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 I'd go wherever you'll get the most clinical exposure earlier on, which is probably one of Dal's strengths. It's true that UofT is pretty hardcore about anatomy dissections as a mandatory part of the curriculum, but I'd imagine at UWO you'd have flexibility to delve into it as much as you want. ETA: Cheaper is better! Potential visa problems are always best avoided. Class cohesiveness does matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith_015 Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 Congrats Mystery! You have good choices ahead of you! In terms of choosing your school/country, its all in what you wanna do with it. I have a friend who applied last cycle to Canada and the US. He got into both countries, and ultimately chose Stanford. His reason? For the research prospects that the US would offer for the future that he feels which would be more abundant/accessible than Canada. You have had the great fortune of getting into a top tier US school, which has been a rare feat for us this year. Ultimately, your decision should come down to what you truly want out of your career. If it was me (and if I was interested in research), I would go pro's for: Vandy: Desire to go to and stay in the US. Have access to learning in a US healthcare environment. Graduate from a reputable US school which will likely help you match easier. Likely very good opportunities for research. Small class size will enhance learning. Looking for adventure and exploration from being away from arms' reach of home. Location should allow for some ballin' road trips across the US. Near Kentucky U of T: Like to stay closer to home. Research opportunities should be able to you if you like. Big hospital network, some top notch, to learn out of. Toronto has nightlife, concerts, terrible sports teams and if you have the cash to do those things, then its ok. UWO: Closer to home again. Tighter community (I'm guessing). Personally, I've lived a far ways from home for a number of years and you get used to it quick. You likely will have to anyways for residency as you are only able to pick and choose to a certain degree. If you are planning to stay in the US too, money again shouldn't be an option (as long as you can secure it before going). Many US grads graduation with a debt burden similar to what an international would have, and a lot are likely able to dig their way out fairly easily. Definitely assess what you are wanting the most out of you MD school/community and beyond, and which school will be the most nurturing at getting you there quicker. Oh and for Vandy, I'm sure you could likely arrange with individual supervisors to get early clinical exposure. There would be some more than happy to have interested students getting their hands dirty early on. If I do end up in Kentucky, I will be doing that to get an early feel and direction for which branch of medicine I would like to go into head on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmitch8 Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 Congrats Mystery Chick! I'm sure our personal situations are different, but we are faced with kind of the same choice. I can tell you how I'm reasoning through mine and maybe it'll help you out. I got into U of T and I'm also holding my acceptance at Mount Sinai. Mount Sinai offered me admission into this dual degree program (MD/MSc) that will pay for some of my tuition and give me a chance to do some incredible longitudinal research. Despite this great offer, I'm leaning towards U of T right now. It will be substantially cheaper for me attend U of T, even with the fellowship at Sinai. This isn't a moot point for me. It's hard for me to justify going ~200K into debt for what will be a VERY similar undergraduate medical experience in the US. Four years of undergraduate medical training will be roughly the same whether you attend U of T, UWO, Vanderbilt, Mount Sinai, Wayne State, Harvard or Baylor - they are all accredited N American medical schools that have 2 years pre-clinical and 2 years on the wards. You will have an opportunity to become a fantastic doctor at each. That being said, each medical school is not perceived as being equal. Mount Sinai is not Harvard, Stanford, Columbia or Hopkins. It does not have the same name recognition up here that those med schools have. This is also true for Vanderbilt. They are both ranked highly on the US news thing, but that doesn't mean much in Canada. I'd like to keep my opportunities for residency in Canada wide open, and I'm worried about going into a residency interview in Vancouver saying "I went to Mount Sinai" and hearing the residency director say "Huh?". Maybe this doesn't happen, but I'd still like to go to a recognizable "big name" place and U of T is certainly that. Also back to the money thing - I know everyone says $200K isn't much when you can make it back quickly as a doc. But when you're graduating and choosing a residency spot, $200K is a ****load of money and I don't want $$ and paying back the loan to influence my choice of specialty at all. The last, and maybe the most important question in making this choice - where do you want to be a doctor and live your life? In Canada or in the US? I think I'd like to stay in Canada - this is my home, this is what I know and I'm certain that I can be happy here. But that's just me. Good luck with the choice - whichever decision you make, it will be the right one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystery_chick Posted May 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 Thanks everyone for your replies! Congrats Mystery Chick! I'm sure our personal situations are different, but we are faced with kind of the same choice. I can tell you how I'm reasoning through mine and maybe it'll help you out. I got into U of T and I'm also holding my acceptance at Mount Sinai. Mount Sinai offered me admission into this dual degree program (MD/MSc) that will pay for some of my tuition and give me a chance to do some incredible longitudinal research. Despite this great offer, I'm leaning towards U of T right now. It will be substantially cheaper for me attend U of T, even with the fellowship at Sinai. This isn't a moot point for me. It's hard for me to justify going ~200K into debt for what will be a VERY similar undergraduate medical experience in the US. Four years of undergraduate medical training will be roughly the same whether you attend U of T, UWO, Vanderbilt, Mount Sinai, Wayne State, Harvard or Baylor - they are all accredited N American medical schools that have 2 years pre-clinical and 2 years on the wards. You will have an opportunity to become a fantastic doctor at each. That being said, each medical school is not perceived as being equal. Mount Sinai is not Harvard, Stanford, Columbia or Hopkins. It does not have the same name recognition up here that those med schools have. This is also true for Vanderbilt. They are both ranked highly on the US news thing, but that doesn't mean much in Canada. I'd like to keep my opportunities for residency in Canada wide open, and I'm worried about going into a residency interview in Vancouver saying "I went to Mount Sinai" and hearing the residency director say "Huh?". Maybe this doesn't happen, but I'd still like to go to a recognizable "big name" place and U of T is certainly that. Also back to the money thing - I know everyone says $200K isn't much when you can make it back quickly as a doc. But when you're graduating and choosing a residency spot, $200K is a ****load of money and I don't want $$ and paying back the loan to influence my choice of specialty at all. The last, and maybe the most important question in making this choice - where do you want to be a doctor and live your life? In Canada or in the US? I think I'd like to stay in Canada - this is my home, this is what I know and I'm certain that I can be happy here. But that's just me. Good luck with the choice - whichever decision you make, it will be the right one. I'm pretty much thinking along the same lines and my decision is pretty much set on UofT right now. I'll probably be declining my Vanderbilt acceptance sometimes today or tomorrow... It's hard to break up with my first I suppose Let me how you decide! Maybe we'll be classmates in the fall. p.s. when I emailed my UofT interviewer to ask his opinion (for curiosity's sake) he called Vanderbilt a second tier school O_O! BAH! hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emcd Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 i feel the same way, it will be hard to 'break up' with Northwestern but I hope to see you all at U of T in a few months!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest viscous Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 Thanks everyone for your replies! I'm pretty much thinking along the same lines and my decision is pretty much set on UofT right now. I'll probably be declining my Vanderbilt acceptance sometimes today or tomorrow... It's hard to break up with my first I suppose Let me how you decide! Maybe we'll be classmates in the fall. p.s. when I emailed my UofT interviewer to ask his opinion (for curiosity's sake) he called Vanderbilt a second tier school O_O! BAH! hahaha you asked your interviewer at UofT about his opinion on a school where you were accepted i.e. Vanderbilt? wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSB Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 I am also deciding between UofT and NYU... same situation. NYU seemed amazing and I really didn't feel like UofT sold itself well. However the $$$ seems too much for something so similar and I think I do want to practice in Canada one day ..... rough decisions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quester Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 I'd go with any NY schools any day; but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamP Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 uwo grads are bosses on the wards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystery_chick Posted May 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 you asked your interviewer at UofT about his opinion on a school where you were accepted i.e. Vanderbilt? wow. haha, this was post acceptance! He can't take it back now!! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC5 Posted May 16, 2010 Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 I am also deciding between UofT and NYU... same situation. NYU seemed amazing and I really didn't feel like UofT sold itself well. However the $$$ seems too much for something so similar and I think I do want to practice in Canada one day ..... rough decisions Pick U of T so I can get off the waitlist! Canadian schools really don't bother selling themselves anyway. You should be e-mailing current U of T students for their opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystery_chick Posted May 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 uwo grads are bosses on the wards Everywhere? on every ward? believe me, I understand how awesome UWO is, if I didn't, I wouldn't be struggling to make this decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystery_chick Posted May 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 I really didn't feel like UofT sold itself well. I totally agree. I was talking to one of my profs about how Vanderbilt has all the awesome simulation facilities with talking robots, and he said "we have that here too!" ... well THANKS for letting me know ahead of time! I think having been to Vanderbilt, I've really notice the huge difference in the amount of effort the schools put into "woo-ing" its prospective students in the US compared to Canada. For example, I went on the UWO campus tour during which we were supposed to see the anatomy lab. The tour guide spent SO much time on the irrelevant parts of campus that we didn't end up having enough time to go. And then I see the pretty, shiny, penthouse anatomy lab at Vanderbilt..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted May 16, 2010 Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 The interview weekend certainly can make a big difference in your impression of a school. I didn't interview in the US, but the experiences at Dal, Queen's, and Mac were all pretty different. Dal had a somewhat limited tour (anatomy lab is restricted, which is too bad since it boasts some of the most stunning views of the harbour in the city) and lots of social events; Mac had a great presentation and no organized social events at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontariostudent Posted May 16, 2010 Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 Unless you're planning to practice in the US, stay in Canada. U of T and UWO are both excellent. You will have a very good experience at either, and you'll save a lot of money and save yourself visa and other issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystery_chick Posted May 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 WOW this poll is a LOT closer than I thought it would be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmelover Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Hi mystery_chick, I am also in a very similar position as you. Vanderbilt and UofT are both an amazing schools and I am sure you will make the right decision either way. If it were me, I would choose UofT because of the location and because of the name/medical experience. You are definitely going to get a “tight knit” clinical experience in Vandy, but I don’t think your exposure will be as varied as UofT. My choice is between northwestern and UofT. Northwestern: Pros: - Chicago is an amazing city and I would love live there for the experience - The school has amazing students (My impression was that all the students were very social and the student body was cohesive) - The opportunity to do research is amazing (the RIC seems like a perfect place for me since I am interested in rehabilitation and neurology) - Future opportunities (I am not sure what this means, but I have spoken to many and it seems like there is more "opportunity" in the US. I figure this means money and career prospects. My eventual goal is to be an academic physician so I guess being in the USA opens the doors for that) - 2 hours of lecture a day with lots of group learning and study time seems appealing, though I have tended to like didactic lectures in the past (i.e., I am not sure how group learning will affect me) Cons: - EXPENSIVE (I am not sure how 280K of debt will affect my future residency choice, but I am pretty sure it will) - I haven't thought about it much yet, but it seems to me that being an international student will make everything harder later on (getting residency spots, jobs, etc) - far from home (Toronto), though it is not a huge deal since I have lived in the US for 3 years now Toronto: Pros: - Toronto too is amazing and was my home for 10+ years - UofT is a top school in Canada and I know I will get a great education - Close to home (though my family lives in Toronto, I won't be living with them, but its still nice to be able to see them often) - Cheap (It is nice to know my debt will be manageable after graduation) Cons: - Though they say research is plentyful in Toronto, I am not a big fan of the research areas there (though I haven't done a thorough search) - The student body didn’t seem as cohesive and social at the interview, but that might have been a bad time The 6+ hours a day of lecture seems pretty daunting (though I have been ok with lectures before, 6+ hours a day seems like a lot) - Though I feel bad saying this (since UofT is amazing), I might be limited as an academic physician in Canada. It seems like there is a heavy emphasis on clinician only docs in Canada I guess the only real question I haven’t answered is whether I want to practice in the US or Canada, because money and research opportunity can be made in either systems. I just wanted to know which one is more conducive to my goals. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystery_chick Posted May 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Hi mystery_chick, I am also in a very similar position as you. Vanderbilt and UofT are both an amazing schools and I am sure you will make the right decision either way. If it were me, I would choose UofT because of the location and because of the name/medical experience. You are definitely going to get a “tight knit” clinical experience in Vandy, but I don’t think your exposure will be as varied as UofT. My choice is between northwestern and UofT. Northwestern: Pros: - Chicago is an amazing city and I would love live there for the experience - The school has amazing students (My impression was that all the students were very social and the student body was cohesive) - The opportunity to do research is amazing (the RIC seems like a perfect place for me since I am interested in rehabilitation and neurology) - Future opportunities (I am not sure what this means, but I have spoken to many and it seems like there is more "opportunity" in the US. I figure this means money and career prospects. My eventual goal is to be an academic physician so I guess being in the USA opens the doors for that) - 2 hours of lecture a day with lots of group learning and study time seems appealing, though I have tended to like didactic lectures in the past (i.e., I am not sure how group learning will affect me) Cons: - EXPENSIVE (I am not sure how 280K of debt will affect my future residency choice, but I am pretty sure it will) - I haven't thought about it much yet, but it seems to me that being an international student will make everything harder later on (getting residency spots, jobs, etc) - far from home (Toronto), though it is not a huge deal since I have lived in the US for 3 years now Toronto: Pros: - Toronto too is amazing and was my home for 10+ years - UofT is a top school in Canada and I know I will get a great education - Close to home (though my family lives in Toronto, I won't be living with them, but its still nice to be able to see them often) - Cheap (It is nice to know my debt will be manageable after graduation) Cons: - Though they say research is plentyful in Toronto, I am not a big fan of the research areas there (though I haven't done a thorough search) - The student body didn’t seem as cohesive and social at the interview, but that might have been a bad time The 6+ hours a day of lecture seems pretty daunting (though I have been ok with lectures before, 6+ hours a day seems like a lot) - Though I feel bad saying this (since UofT is amazing), I might be limited as an academic physician in Canada. It seems like there is a heavy emphasis on clinician only docs in Canada I guess the only real question I haven’t answered is whether I want to practice in the US or Canada, because money and research opportunity can be made in either systems. I just wanted to know which one is more conducive to my goals. Any thoughts? You should talk to Typical Premed. He had to make a similar decision last year. I think Toronto is a big enough research center for you to find something that you're interested in. If not, maybe it's time to explore something new? I'll tell you what has pretty much nixed Vandy for me: a) the cost - like you said, your debt may in some ways affect the residency you choose the visa issues - in my parents' words "why be a second rate citizen in the US when you can be first rate here?" c) the health reform - yes, I am in total and utter support of the health reform yet at the same time, I believe the reform won't kick into full drive until around the time we graduate and that is just slightly too risky for me not knowing what the health care system will be like. d) distance from home - only child, I feel like a part of me will always be a bit guilty if it'll take me a plane ride to get home. :S Plus, if you like didactic lectures, UofT is the place. I was just talking to someone I knew at UofT and she loves it. There's also small groups too, just not the same extent as NU. Although I agree, UofT students seemed pretty stressed at my interview too. Some of them didn't know who their classmates were. :s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmitch8 Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 Tough choice. I'm not sure about the 6+ hours of lecture/day at U of T either, it'll be a grind for sure. But the research worries? I've been doing research in U of T affiliated labs for the past couple years and I can assure you that there is an absolutely scary amount of research happening at U of T. If you include all of the affiliated hospitals (sunnybrook, baycrest, all the UHN hospitals, etc) and the main campus in your search, I guarantee you will find something that strikes your fancy. Plus, I think there is some kind of research advising for med students at U of T that can help you find something... and then there is CREMS (http://crems.med.utoronto.ca/) which sounds like an incredibly intense research experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystery_chick Posted May 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 What are your options rmitch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmitch8 Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 My options for schools? It was btwn U of T, Sinai, NYU, Case Western & some other US places. I picked U of T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystery_chick Posted May 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 My options for schools? It was btwn U of T, Sinai, NYU, Case Western & some other US places. I picked U of T. Look's like we'll be classmates next year then rmitch! thanks for all your inputs everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tryhard Posted May 25, 2010 Report Share Posted May 25, 2010 Congrats Mystery Chick! I'm sure our personal situations are different, but we are faced with kind of the same choice. I can tell you how I'm reasoning through mine and maybe it'll help you out. I got into U of T and I'm also holding my acceptance at Mount Sinai. Mount Sinai offered me admission into this dual degree program (MD/MSc) that will pay for some of my tuition and give me a chance to do some incredible longitudinal research. Despite this great offer, I'm leaning towards U of T right now. It will be substantially cheaper for me attend U of T, even with the fellowship at Sinai. This isn't a moot point for me. It's hard for me to justify going ~200K into debt for what will be a VERY similar undergraduate medical experience in the US. Four years of undergraduate medical training will be roughly the same whether you attend U of T, UWO, Vanderbilt, Mount Sinai, Wayne State, Harvard or Baylor - they are all accredited N American medical schools that have 2 years pre-clinical and 2 years on the wards. You will have an opportunity to become a fantastic doctor at each. That being said, each medical school is not perceived as being equal. Mount Sinai is not Harvard, Stanford, Columbia or Hopkins. It does not have the same name recognition up here that those med schools have. This is also true for Vanderbilt. They are both ranked highly on the US news thing, but that doesn't mean much in Canada. I'd like to keep my opportunities for residency in Canada wide open, and I'm worried about going into a residency interview in Vancouver saying "I went to Mount Sinai" and hearing the residency director say "Huh?". Maybe this doesn't happen, but I'd still like to go to a recognizable "big name" place and U of T is certainly that. Also back to the money thing - I know everyone says $200K isn't much when you can make it back quickly as a doc. But when you're graduating and choosing a residency spot, $200K is a ****load of money and I don't want $$ and paying back the loan to influence my choice of specialty at all. The last, and maybe the most important question in making this choice - where do you want to be a doctor and live your life? In Canada or in the US? I think I'd like to stay in Canada - this is my home, this is what I know and I'm certain that I can be happy here. But that's just me. Good luck with the choice - whichever decision you make, it will be the right one. Very insightful. Congrats on making a decision guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.