cost versus benefit analysis?

[rayjay]

Ok, I'm not economist so I'm not going to pretend to try and use the term of this post correctly (I was just trying to sound clever)...

 

Here is my dilemma. I suck at life and got a horrible undergrad GPA, laughable even. Thankfully I was accepted into a Masters program and because of my new resolve to do well in life I have been killing my graduate courses. I know people say grad school is easy, but honestly the workload in a PBL course is intense and when its an 8 person class you can't just hope you're not called on...you will be...multiple times. Anyways I digress.

 

My question is this: with all the warnings about leaving Canada to study medicine and the incredible heartache that comes from trying to match back...WHY do so many students still continue to do it?

 

I've lurked on the Irish/UK boards on other premed forums other than this (I won't name names but I'm sure most premeds know which ones I'm talking about) and the Aussie/Caribb boards and have seen a huge number of Canadians taking the "plunge" so to speak. Usyd medicine has what, >50% of its international study body being Canadian? UQ is up there too (Although now with Oschner that might change a bit).

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to criticize. I just want to understand, perhaps it will make my decision a bit easier. I'm petrified at not being able to match back and have debt till I have grandkids. I find it hard to believe that of the hundreds of Canadians that go away to schools every year, so few are able to match back. Then why do people still do it? Surely by now after many years people have caught on? You'd think that would stem the flow right?

 

The only thing I take comfort in is that people say matching into IM/FM is not that hard. I am pretty interested in IM (Cardio or Endocrine) so would it not be that difficult?

[nosuperman]

I'm sitting on a few acceptances to Australia, some information on DO schools, and a pending acceptance into a second undergrad in Canada and waitlist for med school in Canada so I'll give you my experience with 'the struggle'.

 

Basically it boils down to whatever you do there will be uncertainty... and premeds hate uncertainty. Going international temporarily alleviates uncertainty (no more worrying about getting into med) in exchange for uncertainty down the road, after graduation (will you match?). The option that gives immediate relief at the risk of future uncertainty is often weighted more heavily than the option that gives present uncertainty with the risk of future relief.

 

If you stay in Canada and try to improve your stats there's still no guarantee you'll get in. People who are qualified still have to beat the statistical odds.

 

If you go overseas you're guaranteed to get in (a least for those who do successfully go overseas) but then after 4 years you come back face to face with the same prospect of NOT getting in. Now you've got 300k worth of loans and you didn't match for residency...

 

So they both have clear risks associated with them and they both have clear benefits for those who don't succumb to the worst case scenario. Staying in Canada and getting in - great! Cheaper tuition and dibs on residencies. Going overseas and matching - great again! You avoided the hassle and headache of more undergrad and MCAT work and still realized your dreams!

 

As for "why do so many do it?" Because neither option is obviously better than the other.

 

Why am I considering it? Because I'm done school and my GPA only eeks by UWO's cutoffs (3.73 avg, 34R) so to be considered I'd need to crank out 2 more years of undergrad and try for a 4.0. Granted that sort of GPA would be much easier to obtain given the program I'd be taking and my life situation now, but thats still 2 years worth of work before a medical school acceptance that isn't even guaranteed. Sandra Banner (CaRMS director) said that "undertaking a further 3 (she must've misunderstood, as it would be only 2) years of undergraduate study to improve your chance of selection into a Canadian Med school is taking a step backwards for an uncertain future". I could be doing clerkship rotations by then.

 

Would it be hard to come back to Canada? Sure. But it'd also be a lot of time and work to stay in Canada trying to get in.

 

So in closing, why do Canadian grads do it despite the obvious risks? Because although there are certainly costs and benefits to each option (going int'l vs staying and buffing application), at least in my own soul searching, I haven't found that the cost/benefit ratio of one option outweighs the cost/benefit ratio of the other option convincingly... so the international route stays on the table, and many people take it. For those who for whatever reason can't post the high stats needed for interviews, its the only option.

[el911128]

I'm sitting on a few acceptances to Australia, some information on DO schools, and a pending acceptance into a second undergrad in Canada and waitlist for med school in Canada so I'll give you my experience with 'the struggle'.

 

Basically it boils down to whatever you do there will be uncertainty... and premeds hate uncertainty. Going international temporarily alleviates uncertainty (no more worrying about getting into med) in exchange for uncertainty down the road, after graduation (will you match?). The option that gives immediate relief at the risk of future uncertainty is often weighted more heavily than the option that gives present uncertainty with the risk of future relief.

 

If you stay in Canada and try to improve your stats there's still no guarantee you'll get in. People who are qualified still have to beat the statistical odds.

 

If you go overseas you're guaranteed to get in (a least for those who do successfully go overseas) but then after 4 years you come back face to face with the same prospect of NOT getting in. Now you've got 300k worth of loans and you didn't match for residency...

 

So they both have clear risks associated with them and they both have clear benefits for those who don't succumb to the worst case scenario. Staying in Canada and getting in - great! Cheaper tuition and dibs on residencies. Going overseas and matching - great again! You avoided the hassle and headache of more undergrad and MCAT work and still realized your dreams!

 

As for "why do so many do it?" Because neither option is obviously better than the other.

 

Why am I considering it? Because I'm done school and my GPA only eeks by UWO's cutoffs (3.73 avg, 34R) so to be considered I'd need to crank out 2 more years of undergrad and try for a 4.0. Granted that sort of GPA would be much easier to obtain given the program I'd be taking and my life situation now, but thats still 2 years worth of work before a medical school acceptance that isn't even guaranteed. Sandra Banner (CaRMS director) said that "undertaking a further 3 (she must've misunderstood, as it would be only 2) years of undergraduate study to improve your chance of selection into a Canadian Med school is taking a step backwards for an uncertain future". I could be doing clerkship rotations by then.

 

Would it be hard to come back to Canada? Sure. But it'd also be a lot of time and work to stay in Canada trying to get in.

 

So in closing, why do Canadian grads do it despite the obvious risks? Because although there are certainly costs and benefits to each option (going int'l vs staying and buffing application), at least in my own soul searching, I haven't found that the cost/benefit ratio of one option outweighs the cost/benefit ratio of the other option convincingly... so the international route stays on the table, and many people take it. For those who for whatever reason can't post the high stats needed for interviews, its the only option.

 

Well put. I really like this explanation... it's what I've been trying to tell my parents, but far more elegantly worded

 

I have a 3.73 OMSAS, 34Q mcat, and I'm going to Ireland next year. I don't really want to commit (the time OR money) to another undergrad to up the GPA and I definitely don't wanna re-write that darn mcat; I'm already in the 90 something-th percentile so I don't know how much I can improve on it!

 

I think people continue to go international because international grads continue to successfully return home. I guess there are enough success stories to outweigh the negative experiences people have going out of country.

[redshifteffect]

 

I think people continue to go international because international grads continue to successfully return home. I guess there are enough success stories to outweigh the negative experiences people have going out of country.

 

I think it's more then just that. There are steps some of the specialist training programs have taken to recognise overseas residencies that have proven that perhaps the doors in Canada are opening up finally. In the early 2000s I doubt anyone would have ever thought that the CFPC would ever recognise any overseas training.

[rayjay]

Nosuperman: thanks for that well-crafted response. Definitely made me think about things differently. I'm not even a year into my masters and am already looking at post-bacc diploma programs. I know my GPA isn't competitive enough in Canada. Hell, I don't even stack up against you guys with your 3.7s (can you feel the jealousy emanating from me?). I hate the prospect of finishing my degree in 1.5yrs, then another 2 years of post bacc work. Now that I think about it, in that time I might as well have done a new degree, as that is about another 4 years anyways! I guess I am just scared to take that big step and leave Canada behind.

 

el9: wow! That's an amazing MCAT. I would kill for that. I'm writing another practice test in a little over half an hour, I hope to break 30 I am pretending I'm getting T's in my writing sample to make me feel better

 

Redshift: Once again, your words of wisdom are taken to heart.