crapshoot orgo?

[Dr. Jan Intor]

So I never took orgo in school and looking over it today there is a lot of things to know and it would take a huge time commitment to try and learn everything. Even then there's no guarantee that I'd do that well in it. So my question is, would it be a better use of time to just worry about the the basics of orgo, definitions and lab procedures etc, and leave out all the reactions? I mean there isn't that much orgo to begin with and I think if you spend your time on mastering bio your overall score would probably be higher?

 

let me know what you guys think? I have a friend who didn't look at orgo at all and got a 12 on the section so I think there might be some merit to this.

 

Thanks!

[shannn]

Orgo isn't that important anymore, but you are still taking a gamble

 

I remember when I wrote the MCAT last summer, there was only 2 orgo passages, and they were EASY (was able to get an 11 on BS)

 

But, my friends have had writings where the orgo passages were much harder.

 

So, it all depends on what you are willing to risk

 

I personally would go through E1, E2, SN1, SN2 reactions, nomenclature and lab techniques thoroughly then review some of the basic reactions.

[The Law]

I completely disagree. I have written 3 times, both times, I ignored orgo almost completely (got 9 and 10). Finally, this year, I actually studied orgo as equally as biology. When I did the MCAT, there was only 1 orgo passage, and about 3 stand alones. I felt very confident answering all of them, where as before it felt somewhat like a crapshoot wirth orgo (ended up with 13 in BS this time). I think it's important to review everything equally and not to underestimate anything. Anything is possible on the MCAT, so don't leave things to chance by not studying something. yes, it may work for some, but why leave it to luck? Everything is equally important. Some other April MCAT writers had very difficult orgo questions on their MCAT, so anythign is possible.

[cgy_guy23]

So I never took orgo in school and looking over it today there is a lot of things to know and it would take a huge time commitment to try and learn everything. Even then there's no guarantee that I'd do that well in it. So my question is, would it be a better use of time to just worry about the the basics of orgo, definitions and lab procedures etc, and leave out all the reactions? I mean there isn't that much orgo to begin with and I think if you spend your time on mastering bio your overall score would probably be higher?

 

let me know what you guys think? I have a friend who didn't look at orgo at all and got a 12 on the section so I think there might be some merit to this.

 

Thanks!

 

I do not recommend it. The two MCATs I have written both had around 3 or 4 passages and stand alone questions on top. Even if you get 100% on the biology parts your score will not be high if you need to mostly guess on orgo which can be up to 40% of the section. I am extremely strong in bio however I did not score anywhere near amazing because I did not study orgo enough. Basic reaction mechanisms are very useful to know...Often they give complex structures and ask questions about them...i.e. if it reacts with Substance X what will the new substance most likely be? If you do not even know the basics, you will get completely confused and likely just guess.

 

Both times there was minimal stuff on lab techniques/lab data interpretation. But this is obviously just the times I have written and it could be useful to at least know the basics of these.

[Femto]

I completely disagree. I have written 3 times, both times, I ignored orgo almost completely (got 9 and 10). Finally, this year, I actually studied orgo as equally as biology. When I did the MCAT, there was only 1 orgo passage, and about 3 stand alones. I felt very confident answering all of them, where as before it felt somewhat like a crapshoot wirth orgo (ended up with 13 in BS this time). I think it's important to review everything equally and not to underestimate anything. Anything is possible on the MCAT, so don't leave things to chance by not studying something. yes, it may work for some, but why leave it to luck? Everything is equally important. Some other April MCAT writers had very difficult orgo questions on their MCAT, so anythign is possible.

 

Law, how did you end up doing overall?

 

I followed most of your posts on here wrt your prep for this write. 13 on BS is awesome. You seemed to be well prepared.

 

I hope you don't mind me asking...

[The Law]

Law, how did you end up doing overall?

 

I followed most of your posts on here wrt your prep for this write. 13 on BS is awesome. You seemed to be well prepared.

 

I hope you don't mind me asking...

 

Real MCAT:

Overall: 32R

PS: 10, VR: 9, BS: 13

 

AAMC Avg:

PS: 10.5

VR: 11

BS: 12 (scored 12 on every single one of my practices)

Range: 32-36 on every practice test

[Prion]

Real MCAT:

Overall: 32R

PS: 10, VR: 9, BS: 13

 

AAMC Avg:

PS: 10.5

VR: 11

BS: 12 (scored 12 on every single one of my practices)

Range: 32-36 on every practice test

 

If you are avging 11 on the Verbal why don't you re-write? That 9 won't help much if you want a greater chance of staying in Ontario, which had been my biggest regret this year.

[The Law]

If you are avging 11 on the Verbal why don't you re-write? That 9 won't help much if you want a greater chance of staying in Ontario, which had been my biggest regret this year.

 

This was my third attempt at the MCAT. First year I wrote I scored a 10 in verbal, second attempt a 5 (don't even want to try to explain this), and 3rd attempt a 9. Based on my experiences with verbal reasoning, I doubt I'll improve. I did score a 10 the first try on the MCAT, and I know I am good enough to get a 10, but a 9 is just as possible. I've decided it's much more practical to apply to the US, apply out of province and Ontario and see what happens. I know my chances in Ontario suck, but I'm going to chance it. Realistically, I have a shot at U of T, and a slim shot at Queen's. Others I will more than likely see a rejection.

 

If I was not working on my MSc, I would most likely rewrite. But, because I am working insane hours in the lab, I don't really have the energy and time to rewrite. It was already difficult enough preparing for the MCAT while doing my research. It was stressful, time consuming, and really exhausting. I don't want to rewrite because of a section that I feel has such a big luck component.

 

My US GPA is a 3.85, with a 32R and my ECs, I feel I am competitive in the US. For Canadian schools, my UT wGPA is a 3.85, OMSAS 3.74, each of most recent 3 years >3.7, %Avg ~ 84, so I think I have a shot... even though it'll be difficult. We shall see. FYI, first two tries at MCAT were 28S (9/10/9) and 26T (11/5/10).

[Femto]

This was my third attempt at the MCAT. First year I wrote I scored a 10 in verbal, second attempt a 5 (don't even want to try to explain this), and 3rd attempt a 9. Based on my experiences with verbal reasoning, I doubt I'll improve. I did score a 10 the first try on the MCAT, and I know I am good enough to get a 10, but a 9 is just as possible. I've decided it's much more practical to apply to the US, apply out of province and Ontario and see what happens. I know my chances in Ontario suck, but I'm going to chance it. Realistically, I have a shot at U of T, and a slim shot at Queen's. Others I will more than likely see a rejection.

 

If I was not working on my MSc, I would most likely rewrite. But, because I am working insane hours in the lab, I don't really have the energy and time to rewrite. It was already difficult enough preparing for the MCAT while doing my research. It was stressful, time consuming, and really exhausting. I don't want to rewrite because of a section that I feel has such a big luck component.

 

My US GPA is a 3.85, with a 32R and my ECs, I feel I am competitive in the US. For Canadian schools, my UT wGPA is a 3.85, OMSAS 3.74, each of most recent 3 years >3.7, %Avg ~ 84, so I think I have a shot... even though it'll be difficult. We shall see. FYI, first two tries at MCAT were 28S (9/10/9) and 26T (11/5/10).

 

IMO, you have a great shot at Ontario Schools.

 

That was a bit of a dipsh*t comment frm Prion. You would for sure not be the first to get accepted in Ontario with a VR of 9, as you know - plus a decent GPA (esp. at UT).

[shannn]

IMO, you have a great shot at Ontario Schools.

 

That was a bit of a dipsh*t comment frm Prion. You would for sure not be the first to get accepted in Ontario with a VR of 9, as you know - plus a decent GPA (esp. at UT).

 

Uhh, do you even know what the cutoffs for VR are at the Ontario schools?

[Femto]

Uhh, do you even know what the cutoffs for VR are at the Ontario schools?

 

Ya, of course I do. I am not sure that I understand your point.

 

I realize that with every school you don't meet the cutoffs for, your chances of gaining an acceptance somehwere are reduced. However, the four other Ontario schools (not Western and Queens) that don't use hard cut-offs have admitted many applicants that would be below the cut-offs for schools like Queens and Western.

 

Since when was it necessary to have the ideal package for all schools in order to be accepted to one?

 

I am only defending myself because I now feel somewhat responsible for Prion's comment because I asked a complete stranger (Law) how he did on the MCAT over a public forum.

[charmer08]

I realize that with every school you don't meet the cutoffs for, your chances of gaining an acceptance somehwere are reduced. However, the four other Ontario schools (not Western and Queens) that don't use hard cut-offs have admitted many applicants that would be below the cut-offs for schools like Queens and Western.

 

Since when was it necessary to have the ideal package for all schools in order to be accepted to one?

 

I am only defending myself because I now feel somewhat responsible for Prion's comment because I asked a complete stranger (Law) how he did on the MCAT over a public forum.

 

The chances are not reduced, they are zero

 

Uofottawa does not have a mcat cutoff but they have a strict gpa cutoff which tends to be high since they are not using mcat cutoffs.

For Mac, if you dont have a really good verbal score, you need a really high gpa to balance things out.

 

Lets just be realistic here... ontario medschools are evil

[shannn]

Ya, of course I do. I am not sure that I understand your point.

 

I realize that with every school you don't meet the cutoffs for, your chances of gaining an acceptance somehwere are reduced. However, the four other Ontario schools (not Western and Queens) that don't use hard cut-offs have admitted many applicants that would be below the cut-offs for schools like Queens and Western.

 

Since when was it necessary to have the ideal package for all schools in order to be accepted to one?

 

I am only defending myself because I now feel somewhat responsible for Prion's comment because I asked a complete stranger (Law) how he did on the MCAT over a public forum.

 

I totally understand.

 

My MCAT did not meet Queen's or Western's cut off, only got 1 interview at Ottawa and I got in.

 

It's like a friend of mine (who's a PhD/MD) always says, applying to medicine is a crapshoot in Canada. Your odds only get better when you get more interviews, but that is all it is, odds.

 

But don't say that his reply is full of crap, it isn't, it is just a piece of advice. He said that Law's odds would be greater with a better VR score (not that Law had no chance at Ontario)

[Femto]

The chances are not reduced, they are zero

 

Uofottawa does not have a mcat cutoff but they have a strict gpa cutoff which tends to be high since they are not using mcat cutoffs.

For Mac, if you dont have a really good verbal score, you need a really high gpa to balance things out.

 

Lets just be realistic here... ontario medschools are evil

 

Your chances of gaining an acceptance at the school that uses strict cut-offs is zero, yes. But it is by no means zero at other schools that don't use the strict cut-offs. So, by not having a chance at the schools that use strict cut-offs, your overall chances at being accepted to any school in Ontario is reduced, but not zero.

[Femto]

I totally understand.

 

My MCAT did not meet Queen's or Western's cut off, only got 1 interview at Ottawa and I got in.

 

It's like a friend of mine (who's a PhD/MD) always says, applying to medicine is a crapshoot in Canada. Your odds only get better when you get more interviews, but that is all it is, odds.

 

But don't say that his reply is full of crap, it isn't, it is just a piece of advice. He said that Law's odds would be greater with a better VR score (not that Law had no chance at Ontario)

 

Okay, maybe I was a bit harsh.

 

However, based on the many posts that Law has made, anyone who reads this forum even occasionally (maybe that was my problem, I assumed that Prion was a frequent contributor... isn't he/she?) would know that Law knows his chances are reduced, and re-writing might help, but who the hell wants to do that?

 

I don't even care anymore... no big deal. lol

[The Law]

It's okay guys, I know the odds are all against me. I can deal with it.

I will apply everywhere regardless. When I was in my third year, I applied to Queen's with a GPA of 3.69 and an MCAT of 28S. Everyone told me I was crazy, and I somehow, miraculously got an interview. The odds are definitely stacked firmly against me, especially in Ontario, but I've accepted this fact and am willing to leave Ontario if I have to (although, I definitely think med schools will regret this in the future! Or so I'll keep telling myself. ).

 

If it wasn't for my masters project, I would probably rewrite because I am confident I can get a score that meets cutoffs. I certainly have scored over the cutoffs in each section on different tests, and I was expecting to do much better in verbal on my test. Anyway, that is the way the test unfolded, so I'll just have to live with it!

[shannn]

It's okay guys, I know the odds are all against me. I can deal with it.

I will apply everywhere regardless. When I was in my third year, I applied to Queen's with a GPA of 3.69 and an MCAT of 28S. Everyone told me I was crazy, and I somehow, miraculously got an interview. The odds are definitely stacked firmly against me, especially in Ontario, but I've accepted this fact and am willing to leave Ontario if I have to (although, I definitely think med schools will regret this in the future! Or so I'll keep telling myself. ).

 

If it wasn't for my masters project, I would probably rewrite because I am confident I can get a score that meets cutoffs. I certainly have scored over the cutoffs in each section on different tests, and I was expecting to do much better in verbal on my test. Anyway, that is the way the test unfolded, so I'll just have to live with it!

 

It just takes 1 interview

 

Besides, I'm sure you have learned a lot since your first interview, and have much more to talk about and where you can improve.

[Prion]

woah, take a chill pill Femto... in what part of my post did you sense any disrespect for Law? I hope your speed reading techniques aren't interfering with your comprehensions, the whole premise of your hissy-fit was just ridiculous:rolleyes:

 

 

And Law, I hope you didn't take my advice the wrong way as well:p Having gone through a cycle with a miserable 9 myself, I know first-hand how cruel the hard cutoffs can be. Now I see that you are in a interesting situation. I'm sure you've thought hard about your decision, and it was a difficult one, no doubt. I was honestly just trying to encourage you to get a higher verbal, I guess I missed the chance to elaborate on that after my initial post.

 

Best of luck this coming cycle!

[Femto]

Honestly, I do apologize Prion. The dipsh*t comment that I made was not at all warranted.

 

I took your initial post the wrong way, and I felt somewhat responsible for it.

[Prion]

Honestly, I do apologize Prion. The dipsh*t comment that I made was not at all warranted.

 

I took your initial post the wrong way, and I felt somewhat responsible for it.

 

Apology accepted, no hard feelings. At least your comment were with good, although misguided, intention:) .

[charmer08]

Your chances of gaining an acceptance at the school that uses strict cut-offs is zero, yes. But it is by no means zero at other schools that don't use the strict cut-offs. So, by not having a chance at the schools that use strict cut-offs, your overall chances at being accepted to any school in Ontario is reduced, but not zero.

 

oh yeah, I read that again, it makes sense now lol

[Dr. Jan Intor]

haha I love how this thread just drifted so epically off topic

[The Law]

Us premeds have ADD.

[gonnabeadocta]

I sucked at orgo at school. I studied the main things : nomenclature, bonding, isomerism, know your functional grps (and their properties) etc, be able to recognize some of the reactions that come up a lot (they usually say in some prep books). The problem is I found a lot of prep books will say they are all important. I say, Nah! If you have the time, study it (if you're not willing to take the gamble) but I took the gamble and am glad. That's what I did for my second mcat and there were only like 2 passages and most of the questions covered just the basics. I got a 10 in BS.

Main thing is don't get overwhelmed. Even the complicated looking orgo passages are usually only testing the basics ( they'll give you a huge yucky looking thing but you only need to focus on a tiny part to answer the Q).

 

In summation, I would say for organic chemistry, study but don't study TOO hard. If you're pressed for time, focus a lot more on biology. Plus practice lots of questions (it helps even if you don't know your stuff 100%).

Good luck!!!!

 

 

 

So I never took orgo in school and looking over it today there is a lot of things to know and it would take a huge time commitment to try and learn everything. Even then there's no guarantee that I'd do that well in it. So my question is, would it be a better use of time to just worry about the the basics of orgo, definitions and lab procedures etc, and leave out all the reactions? I mean there isn't that much orgo to begin with and I think if you spend your time on mastering bio your overall score would probably be higher?

 

let me know what you guys think? I have a friend who didn't look at orgo at all and got a 12 on the section so I think there might be some merit to this.

 

Thanks!