blueberry Posted June 12, 2010 Report Share Posted June 12, 2010 I've been staring at UWO's BMSc website and I noticed something very confusing (at least to me). The link below provides information about the maximum capacity of the HSP modules within the BMSc Program and whether or not each module reached its capacity as the Year 2 classes progress through the BMSc Program into year 4. http://www.uwo.ca/bmsc/PDF/modular%20enrolment%20charts/Web%20-%20Module%20Enrolment%20Summary%20by%20year_year41099.pdf Most of the HSP modules are not full in Year four. WHY does the class not continue to complete year four!? Where do all the BMSc students go after year three? Graduate schools? Is it possible they just don't get into the Honours modules (I'm not sure if they fill up each module every year based on a minimum mark or just interest) I appreciate any comments or thoughts! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I go to Queen's. This summer, I applied to Western. Uh Oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosettastoned Posted June 12, 2010 Report Share Posted June 12, 2010 One of the main reasons (according to the physiology academic counsellor) is people get into dentistry/medicine after 3rd year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueberry Posted June 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2010 One of the main reasons (according to the physiology academic counsellor) is people get into dentistry/medicine after 3rd year. oh really? That sounds pretty good if that's true... I wonder if there is statistics about the percentage of BMSc students who progress to graduate programs. Anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarb Posted June 12, 2010 Report Share Posted June 12, 2010 I don't know what the statistics are for every department but I can say that of the 70ish people in my program (Honour Spec Phys & Pharm) this year, over 1/2 of us are going into med next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderson Posted June 13, 2010 Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 I don't know what the statistics are for every department but I can say that of the 70ish people in my program (Honour Spec Phys & Pharm) this year, over 1/2 of us are going into med next year. After you've completed your fourth year? That's really impressive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueberry Posted June 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 After you've completed your fourth year? That's really impressive I agree. That is encouraging! I checked out the UWO med 2014 class (yay for facebook!). I was surprised to see so many UWO alum! I wonder if this is a trend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueberry Posted June 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 Something I want to add: I just wish I had a better idea of how many med students are produced by this program every year (you can easily find these kind of stats for McMaster Health Science!). This is sort of critical for me, since I am currently majoring in Biology at Queen's (I find the courses pretty dull). I haven't heard of any Queen's Biology Majors in med... biology is really invisible next to Queen's Life Science. Also, transferring to Western would be a pain... But looking strictly at academics, what is the better program? And yes, I'm aware that leaving Queen's for Western is scandalous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rext Posted June 13, 2010 Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 Something I want to add: I just wish I had a better idea of how many med students are produced by this program every year (you can easily find these kind of stats for McMaster Health Science!). This is sort of critical for me, since I am currently majoring in Biology at Queen's (I find the courses pretty dull). I haven't heard of any Queen's Biology Majors in med... biology is really invisible next to Queen's Life Science. Also, transferring to Western would be a pain... But looking strictly at academics, what is the better program? And yes, I'm aware that leaving Queen's for Western is scandalous. I think that if the only reason you're leaving Queen's for Western is because of medical school matriculation rates, then you should probably reconsider. Med schools don't care about where/what you study in undergrad. In fact, I think its a pro that your program doesn't have that many pre-meds as this inadvertently translates into less keeners and more opportunities for you I'm pretty sure biology courses are similar no matter where you go (what kind of biology are you doing??) and if its the course material that's boring you, seriously considering switching majors. P.S. A Queen in Western is definitely just asking to get festern wucked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarb Posted June 13, 2010 Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 After you've completed your fourth year? That's really impressive I agree. That is encouraging! I checked out the UWO med 2014 class (yay for facebook!). I was surprised to see so many UWO alum! I wonder if this is a trend... Yup. A lot of my friends from the program are going into UWO med. The trend though, could be due to their SWOMEN status. Most SWOMEN kids go to UWO and UWO accepts a large portion of SWOMEN applicants. As much as I loved my program, I don't think you should switch because our program has a lot of students going into med. Med schools don't care what your major or what school you went to (in Canada at least). I think you should do a little research into what Western has to offer in terms of program, courses, research ops (if that interests you) etc. and compare it to Queens. See if its worth the hassle of switching university. Don't worry, as scandalous as it is, you're making the "right" transition as oppose to transferring out of UWO to Queens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmoh Posted June 13, 2010 Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 I'm a UWO BMSC (honours biochem). I just got into Queens medicine. I agree with the above posts, they couldnt care less where you went. The most important thing is to develop your story as a person and ultimately an applicant. Do the program you want, get the grades, cover any pre-requisites that each school you're interested may have... and dont pass up great opportunities to get involved in things that can improve not only your application but your experiences as a student. As for the stats on UWO, I also agree with the above posts, if you are from the SWOMEN area, you probably go to Western because its close, and your chances increase substantially (VERY substantially) for Schulich medicine. This is likely where the correlation stems from. My 2 cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizz.lee Posted June 13, 2010 Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 You should think about rates of students getting into medical school from a particular program in terms of how many other students in the program tried and failed If half of your class gets in, but the whole class was competing for those spots, the odds aren't nearly as good and you will have to work extremely hard to remain competitive. My program was almost completely devoid of competitive individuals, so I got to skip out on the stress that would introduce. I feel like that's a better path to take Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarb Posted June 13, 2010 Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 If half of your class gets in, but the whole class was competing for those spots, the odds aren't nearly as good and you will have to work extremely hard to remain competitive. I have to disagree. Yes, a lot of people from my class applied but there wasn't competition within the class. There was no sabotage or anything like that. You have to work hard to get good grades but I didn't work extra hard to shine above anyone else in my program. In the end, I was being compared with everyone applying for med and not just my classmates. So it doesn't matter that I got an 85 with the class average of 87. Med schools only care about the 85 = 3.9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueberry Posted June 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 Thanks for the replies. Very informative! These are the core courses I am required to take in Queen's Biology 2nd year (and I included the codes for anyone who has taken them and can comment?) Biol 243 (stats), biol 201 (diversity of life I), biol 202 (diversity of life II), biol 206 (evolutionary genetics) and 205 (genetics). Not too bad, but those diversity of life courses are basically courses on plants. Still, I thought I could use my electives smartly and take courses I actually have interest in but... Many of the really interesting science courses are restricted to Life Science students. The basic medical sciences fall under the "Life Science Umbrella" and Life Science students are given priority. This is especially frustrating because there is slim to no chance I would get a research project (499 project). Doesn't research look good as a med applicant? It's my understanding that the BMSc modules at Western are competitive, but the course selection seems superior to Queen's (course on aliens!?), there are no course restrictions based on what module you're in, and every student has the opportunity to do research in 4th year (is this competitive?). Please correct me if I'm wrong! As for competition in whatever program I'm in... I'm not really factoring that into my decision. My best friends are super keeners, premed, future goldman sachs wannabe types and actually, I like being around such driven people. So... Western? Queen's? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarb Posted June 14, 2010 Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 It's my understanding that the BMSc modules at Western are competitive, but the course selection seems superior to Queen's (course on aliens!?), there are no course restrictions based on what module you're in, and every student has the opportunity to do research in 4th year (is this competitive?). Please correct me if I'm wrong! So... Western? Queen's? Thoughts? If you're going into 2nd year, Western's "med sci" modules are all the same. Whether you picked to be in micro/imm, phys pharm or biochem etc. You will have to a set number of required courses and then have 1.0 electives to take a course related to your specialization or wait till 3rd/4th year. Only in 3rd and 4th year will you see a clear division between the departments. Otherwise, all med sci 2nd year students have: stats, cell bio, genetics, scientific methods, orgo chem etc. (I don't know the new 4 digit codes off by heart) Then I don't know what Queen's upper year courses look like but I can say that Western has a large variety of courses for you to take. My specialization was in Phys/Pharm but I still got to biochemistry, anatomy etc. without any hassle of special permissions etc. In 3rd year, the phys course is a general mammalian phys one where you learn about all the organ systems broadly. In 4th year, thats when we started getting into the nitty gritty details of each system. In my fourth year, I took courses like: fetal physiology, endocrine & reproductive physiology, organogenesis etc. So in terms of specialization in a certain field, its definitely possible with Western's upper year courses. If you are 3rd year averages gets you into the 4th year honours program (which this year was ~80%?, you'll need to check the department website for this number), you will get a spot to do your thesis. You don't get to pick your professor beforehand (though, many students do) but you are guaranteed to have a professor who will have a project for you. You need to make the cutoffs to be in this honours program though, there are only 70 or so spots for Phys/Pharm thesis. The numbers vary between departments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medhopeful64 Posted June 15, 2010 Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 Thanks for the replies. Very informative! These are the core courses I am required to take in Queen's Biology 2nd year (and I included the codes for anyone who has taken them and can comment?) Biol 243 (stats), biol 201 (diversity of life I), biol 202 (diversity of life II), biol 206 (evolutionary genetics) and 205 (genetics). Not too bad, but those diversity of life courses are basically courses on plants. Still, I thought I could use my electives smartly and take courses I actually have interest in but... Many of the really interesting science courses are restricted to Life Science students. The basic medical sciences fall under the "Life Science Umbrella" and Life Science students are given priority. This is especially frustrating because there is slim to no chance I would get a research project (499 project). Doesn't research look good as a med applicant? 201 is on plants, yes, but 202 is on animals (zoology). It was much better (IMO) than 201 b/c it was much more interesting, hands-on labs (dissections each week), and the profs were just more entertaining than the ones in 201. You cannot take a 499 research project if you are not in life sci. Not even life sci majors are allowed to do 499; it's restricted to SSP (subject of specialization) students. Biology students take the 537 project. If you do not like the biology courses, then maybe you can try switching into life sci after 2nd year. If you pick your electives smartly, and take the life sci courses that are also eligible for biology credits (ie, mbio 218, chem 282 (the second half of orgo), microbio? I'm not sure about that one, don't quote me on it), you can easily transfer into 3rd year life sci without having to sacrifice another year. Physiology 212 has been offered in the summer for the past few years, so it might be offered again next summer. If you do all that (microbio, orgo in 2nd year and physiology in the summer), you can easily transfer (in terms of course credits); all that is missing is the anatomy (I think 3rd yr life sci ssp has enough elective credits to allow you to fit that in in 3rd year) Your marks do need to be relatively high, since it is quite competitive. You might want to ask the artsci office if this is a good idea though. It's my understanding that the BMSc modules at Western are competitive, but the course selection seems superior to Queen's (course on aliens!?), there are no course restrictions based on what module you're in, and every student has the opportunity to do research in 4th year (is this competitive?). Please correct me if I'm wrong! As for competition in whatever program I'm in... I'm not really factoring that into my decision. My best friends are super keeners, premed, future goldman sachs wannabe types and actually, I like being around such driven people. I think I would agree with you. My friends are not keeners at all; one of them complains about wanting to be in 4th year already, and another thinks she will get into med school with 70s and no ECs. Sometimes, I wish I had more driven friends. If you don't want to take the bio courses, why did you choose bio as your major? If the life sci program isn't full..you may stil be able to switch into it- email the lifesci office asap. i've only take 243 and 205. 243 was super easy take stat 263 as well and you can easily get 90+ on both-very similar in material. 205 was redic primarily due to the prof from the first half I'm not sure when you took 243, but I took it this past year, and it was torture. The prof did not know how to teach (refused to post up lecture slides, or posted them AFTER class, making attending class useless), and we used this new program this year, called 'R'. It was the most ridiculous thing ever since he refused to give us codes or examples of codes to actually use the damn program. We had to figure it out ourselves. You basically had to wait until someone had it, and it just circulated via email. Not to mention that sometimes he would lecture about material that is required for the assignment, and the assignment is due in 2 days. All that aside, he was a nice guy to talk to (just didn't know how to teach lol), and his exams were fair ok rant is over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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