Advice for a non-traditional applicant.

[epidude]

Hi there,

 

Firstly, I want to thank the whole community for the absolute wealth of information that can be found on here, it's been very helpful, and I really appreciate everything to date. Of course, no series of posts can answer questions specific to a person's individual circumstances, so more of these posts invariably pop up.

 

So down to the meat and potatoes. My question is this: Can medical school be part of my life plan?

 

Some background:

 

1 - Live in Ontario. Currently enrolled in an M.Sc. Epidemiology program (Course + Thesis), currently have an average of 3.8/4.0 (converted) on course work.

2 - Undergrad (B.SocSci., Hons. Political Science) was completed over the course of six years part time while working full time. OMSAS-converted average of 3.37.

3 - Have worked for the past 6 years in public health, working with epidemiologists and policy makers in ID.

4 - Volunteer with a national organization providing health care services to rural and remote African countries, along with a number of other activities not PH or HC related, but definitely in the "community involvement" umbrella.

 

I never dreamed of doing any more schooling while doing my undergrad, hence the below-average marks, however, I fell into public health by chance and have absolutely fallen in love with public health, and health care. As I progress in my studies in Epidemiology, I crave more and more knowledge and feel that I have a number of the aptitudes that would lend to an excellent physician.

 

So, given the above, is this a sisyphean task? Or should I continue putting my nose the grindstone? As a note: I would need to go back and do some "pre-med" undergrad courses (bio, chem, etc.) for sure, and that would be an intermediary step for me between the M.Sc. and Med School.

 

Thanks in advance for your help!

[simpy]

Hi there,

 

Firstly, I want to thank the whole community for the absolute wealth of information that can be found on here, it's been very helpful, and I really appreciate everything to date. Of course, no series of posts can answer questions specific to a person's individual circumstances, so more of these posts invariably pop up.

 

So down to the meat and potatoes. My question is this: Can medical school be part of my life plan?

 

Some background:

 

1 - Live in Ontario. Currently enrolled in an M.Sc. Epidemiology program (Course + Thesis), currently have an average of 3.8/4.0 (converted) on course work.

2 - Undergrad (B.SocSci., Hons. Political Science) was completed over the course of six years part time while working full time. OMSAS-converted average of 3.37.

3 - Have worked for the past 6 years in public health, working with epidemiologists and policy makers in ID.

4 - Volunteer with a national organization providing health care services to rural and remote African countries, along with a number of other activities not PH or HC related, but definitely in the "community involvement" umbrella.

 

I never dreamed of doing any more schooling while doing my undergrad, hence the below-average marks, however, I fell into public health by chance and have absolutely fallen in love with public health, and health care. As I progress in my studies in Epidemiology, I crave more and more knowledge and feel that I have a number of the aptitudes that would lend to an excellent physician.

 

So, given the above, is this a sisyphean task? Or should I continue putting my nose the grindstone? As a note: I would need to go back and do some "pre-med" undergrad courses (bio, chem, etc.) for sure, and that would be an intermediary step for me between the M.Sc. and Med School.

 

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

It's going to depend almost entirely on your MCAT.

 

University of Ottawa is out, as is University of Toronto (most likely - unless your lowish GPA is a result of doing badly in one course every year and very well in the others). NOSM is probably out as well (for now, anyway).

 

OOP schools are almost certainly out. You may have a shot of University of Calgary or Dalhousie (but these would be very low probability chances right now).

 

That leaves Queen's, Western, and McMaster. Your GPA is low for McMaster, so you would need to do extremely well on your verbal MCAT to balance this (probably 12+). Queen's and Western have GPA cutoffs that you might not hit. For Western your best 2 years need to be above 3.7. For Queen's your last 2 years need to be above 3.7 (although this may be lower due to your master's... but they seem to be changing lots of things so I wouldn't count on anything for next cycle with them). In either case, for both Queen's and Western you need high verbal and writing section scores (in addition to fairly strong biology and physical sciences scores).

 

Honestly, you may need to do a second undergraduate degree for up to 3 years (2 years is probably fine). This could open up more schools including Ottawa.

 

This is a lot of time though. I would write the MCAT first. If you score fairly well (very close or above the cutoffs) then if you do a second undergraduate degree and do really well (GPA 3.8+) you would have a fairly good chance of getting into medical school. Without the MCATs, you would really need to do a further 3 years with an average GPA above 3.85 to have a shot at Ottawa.

[hking03]

Hi there,

 

Firstly, I want to thank the whole community for the absolute wealth of information that can be found on here, it's been very helpful, and I really appreciate everything to date. Of course, no series of posts can answer questions specific to a person's individual circumstances, so more of these posts invariably pop up.

 

So down to the meat and potatoes. My question is this: Can medical school be part of my life plan?

 

Some background:

 

1 - Live in Ontario. Currently enrolled in an M.Sc. Epidemiology program (Course + Thesis), currently have an average of 3.8/4.0 (converted) on course work.

2 - Undergrad (B.SocSci., Hons. Political Science) was completed over the course of six years part time while working full time. OMSAS-converted average of 3.37.

3 - Have worked for the past 6 years in public health, working with epidemiologists and policy makers in ID.

4 - Volunteer with a national organization providing health care services to rural and remote African countries, along with a number of other activities not PH or HC related, but definitely in the "community involvement" umbrella.

 

I never dreamed of doing any more schooling while doing my undergrad, hence the below-average marks, however, I fell into public health by chance and have absolutely fallen in love with public health, and health care. As I progress in my studies in Epidemiology, I crave more and more knowledge and feel that I have a number of the aptitudes that would lend to an excellent physician.

 

So, given the above, is this a sisyphean task? Or should I continue putting my nose the grindstone? As a note: I would need to go back and do some "pre-med" undergrad courses (bio, chem, etc.) for sure, and that would be an intermediary step for me between the M.Sc. and Med School.

 

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

Hmm, well not knowing the graduate application process too well my opinion would have to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

Just perusing through the med school/graduate studies sticky that law put together it looks like you could still have a chance at a few schools in ontario- namely U of T and Queens. U of T drops the minimum GPA to 3.0 instead of 3.6 and Queens may lower the GPA requirements, but not the MCAT.

 

So, what I would say is this- you still have a chance. You would need to complete the pre-reqs for the schools you are interested in, finish up the old masters degree, rock the crap out of the MCAT and then see what happens from there.

 

A good idea for you would be to speak with the specific schools of interest- they will be able to tell you if it is worth your time to try and get into med school with what you currently have. They may suggest that a second degree may be necessary... I'm really not sure.

 

Also, from what I read- U of T may want some sort of research based work in your masters in order to help your application... you might want to check into that.

 

Whatever happens, good luck!

[C2MD]

Another option, which may seem way out there, is moving to Montreal and pursuing your M.Sc. at McGill, while you take the basic science prerequisites.

 

McGill offers a Non trad pathway option for Qc residents (as does U Laval, but it's a French University), and with your background, I'm pretty sure you'd fit their profile:

http://www.mcgill.ca/medadmissions/applying/applicant-categories/non-traditional-pathway-quebec

 

Info on Qc residency:http://www.mcgill.ca/medadmissions/applying/applicant-categories

 

[epidude]

Thanks for the honest appraisal thusfar; just getting into the M.Sc. program was a challenge because my undergrad marks are such a liability. However, at least with an M.Sc., the fact that I am a well-rounded individual was of benefit.

 

I'm definitely getting the message loud-and-clear that a really solid MCAT will be of benefit to me. No guarantee, of course, but at least put a bit more weight behind any applications.

 

Moving to La Belle Province seems like a pretty interesting option, especially since getting residency would be fairly easy given that I could just cross the river for a while. However, looking at the criteria below, it looks like simply having a Quebec birth certificate (which I do, having been born there) would be enough? I'll have to check if mine has the notation that is unacceptable. Or am I misreading that?

 

Anyway, thanks again for your advice and assessments of my situation.

[rmr]

Another option, which may seem way out there, is moving to Montreal and pursuing your M.Sc. at McGill, while you take the basic science prerequisites.

 

McGill offers a Non trad pathway option for Qc residents (as does U Laval, but it's a French University), and with your background, I'm pretty sure you'd fit their profile:

 

I am pretty sure the non-trad applicant at McGill has to be out of school (full-time) for at least 3 years from the time of application and in the workforce to be exempt from refreshing the prerequisite courses if it's more than 8 years. You still have to have completed the prereqs in the past. I have actually emailed McGill AED Med on this issue and received a reply from them.

 

To OP: Check the sticky Medical School Graduate Student Policies in the non-trad subforum. Some schools will use some of your grad work in their GPA calculation, others will give you points if your grad degree is conferred in their interview calculation.

[C2MD]

If you were born here, I'm pretty sure you're fine...

 

Also, just to clarify my last post, if you're studying part-time and are working full-time you are eligible for the non-trad applicant at McGill. As rmr said, you do have to have been out of school full-time for at least 3 years from the time of application and in the workforce.

 

You might have other options at McGill with an M.Sc. completed. Your best bet is to email them directly and explain your situation, they will be able to tell you what is possible, then you can see if it's better for you or doesn't change anything to pursue your M.Sc. in Ont. or Qc.

 

C

 

Thanks for the honest appraisal thusfar; just getting into the M.Sc. program was a challenge because my undergrad marks are such a liability. However, at least with an M.Sc., the fact that I am a well-rounded individual was of benefit.

 

I'm definitely getting the message loud-and-clear that a really solid MCAT will be of benefit to me. No guarantee, of course, but at least put a bit more weight behind any applications.

 

Moving to La Belle Province seems like a pretty interesting option, especially since getting residency would be fairly easy given that I could just cross the river for a while. However, looking at the criteria below, it looks like simply having a Quebec birth certificate (which I do, having been born there) would be enough? I'll have to check if mine has the notation that is unacceptable. Or am I misreading that?

 

Anyway, thanks again for your advice and assessments of my situation.

[epidude]

If you were born here, I'm pretty sure you're fine...

You might have other options at McGill with an M.Sc. completed. Your best bet is to email them directly and explain your situation, they will be able to tell you what is possible, then you can see if it's better for you or doesn't change anything to pursue your M.Sc. in Ont. or Qc.

 

I think this is probably the best advice I've ever gotten in my life (not this instance in particular, but in general). One of the reasons I was accepted into the M.Sc. program was because I took the time to meet with a variety of people in the department to determine whether there was a chance for me to be accepted into this fairly competitive program. It was through this that I received the advice to take two of the core courses as a special student to demonstrate an aptitude for graduate work.

 

Anyway, it looks like the McGill route may be my best option at this time, as I was born in QC. Of course, it all depends on a number of factors, but at the very least i'll take the time to meet with them and discuss my situation and see if there's any way to make it happen.

 

I very much want to get into med school, one way or another, but I will not devestated if it isn't meant to be so... I could spend my time whining about how I didn't put enough effort in my undergrad many a moon ago, or I could just suck it up and work to improve my situation.

 

Thanks again all for your advice and suggestions... This is an amazing forum.

[Der Kaiser]

May I ask how you managed to get into an M.Sc with a BA in Poli Sci?

[epidude]

May I ask how you managed to get into an M.Sc with a BA in Poli Sci?

 

Happy to! I know it's a bit of an unconventional path, and so I had to work extra hard to convince the admissions committee. ;-)

 

It's a combination of over 6 years of progressive public health experience, and succeeding at the two Epi core courses as a special student to demonstrate an aptitude. A number of my colleagues hold appointments at the faculty and were able to guide me through the process. Admittedly, it took two attemps, but second time's a charm! ;-)

 

Hope that clarifies.

[Absolute Wealth]

Nontraditional applicants must work hard to prove that their choice to attend medical school is a thoroughly considered one. Even if your resume is impressive in other areas, you should add some medical–related volunteer work to show that you're committed to medicine and understand what practicing it is really like. Look into volunteer programs at health clinics, or find a part–time position as an EMT or nurse's aid. <a href="http://www.absolutewealth.com/experts/">Absolute Wealth</a>