Opinion on the University of Ottawa School of Medicine

[xxmed]

So I got in to the 2015 class at UO. I had applied to a bunch of schools (McGill, UofT, UO, Queen's and Mac). I got rejected pre-interview from both McGill and UofT (I'm from out west, so I was OOP for all of these schools). I was waitlisted at both Queen's and Mac. To be honest, I was kindoff disappointed with the results (don't get me wrong, I'm super happy with getting in to med school). I had considered myself to be a good candidate, and most of my friends who were also applying to med school thought that I would get in to my 1st choice med school (UofT). I had a 4.0 from B.Sc. Honours Biochem at McGill, 37Q MCAT, research (my honours thesis), as well as a bunch of volunteering (over 100 hours local clinic stuff from back home, playing organ at my local church for over 8 years, organizing a benefit concert to raise money for a local art gallery, etc. etc.). I also found my interviews at Queen's, Mac and UO went really well (the one at UO didn't go any better than the other two).

 

At any rate, UO was not my first choice (in fact, it was my last). While studying at McGill, I've come to realize that a lot of people are concerned with school prestige...Ottawa doesn't really rank high in terms of reputation..at least from what I've heard. It's mostly Queen's, UofT and McGill which I hear about the most, at least in terms of medicine. But now that I've gotten in, I've been looking at the website and I'm starting to like what I see. It seems like Ottawa has good facilities, and has some great hospitals associated with its medical school. The thing is, a lot of people that I know are just trying to "get in" to med school, and I think they'll take it easier from here on out. But in my case, I want to go far with my med career, so I am sort off picky in terms of where I want to study. My question is, does the med school you attend affect how competitive you are for residency positions, i.e. are some Canadian med schools "better than others"? I'm also thinking about studying later in the US...

 

Like I said above, I'm really happy about getting in to med school, I'm just a bit confused about how med schools pick their candidates...By looking at the accepted/rejected threads, it just seems almost random in terms of what schools people get in to. Some input from med students about how Ottawa stacks up compared to other Canadian med schools would be great.

[hopelessWaitlister]

Hi xxmed,

 

I was also from the west, and Ottawa was not my first choice either. I had the same feeling as you when I first came here. However, after being here for almost a year, I have to say I am very glad to be here.

 

Ottawa is a great school. The school is located between The Ottawa General and CHEO (Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario). We only have class in the morning, so you can do thing you like in the afternoon. You can set up electives and find out or pursue areas that you are interested. You can study on yourself. You can choose to give yourself a break and pursue your hobbies. You can find positions in labs and do research. You can choose to join over 50 interests group created and ran by the students. You can participate in intramural sports or other extracurricular activities, such as Med-Law game, Med Show, Clinical Skills Conference, Leadership Symposium, taking free French classes. There are tons of opportunities created for you to enhance your learning experience and build your resume.

 

To be honest, it's really what you make it, and I think this statement applies doesn't matter which school you go to. But with the half day curriculum, Ottawa gives you the flexibility and time to allow you to decide what you want from life in the first two years of your medical career, which I think is crucially important.

 

Finally, some stats, I went to one of the information session about CaRMS matching, and our associated dean told us last year 96% graduates got matched and ~60% (I forgot the exact number) got matched to the specialty and location that they wanted. We are definitely doing well in terms of matching.

 

Hope it helps, I am looking forward to meet you in September!

[supafield]

Disclaimer, I'm an Ottawa student and am biased.

 

You've mistakenly associated the general undergraduate prestige with that of the medical school.

 

First of all, any school in Canada will give you an opportunity to do great things in medicine. It'll come down to you, not your school. I don't want to discredit other schools while making points for Ottawa, simply consider:

 

Ottawa is a big tertiary centre, represented by nearly every residency available and a very diverse case load. It's nice to know if you're gunning for a competitive residency, that you have a home program to make contacts in. Toronto and Ottawa are the only schools with Derm programs in the province for example. We have a very good children's hospital that represents all pediatric subspecialties. The Heart Institute has in my opinion the best cardiology training in the country and our cardio unit reflects that.

 

Not to mention, all the national organizations are around the street from us, you can walk to the CMA and the AFMC and many other organizations are in the city. Many of the people that work their way up the Ottawa hospital ladder are able to transition into big national administrative positions.

 

All that said, if you're going to be unhappy here. Don't come. I believe Ottawa gets overlooked a fair bit because it's not one of the most prestigious undergraduate (outside of MD) schools in the country and people keep that mindset going forward. So many people, myself included, are very happily surprised to see what they find. If the name of your institution is the most important aspect of your decision, maybe you won't like it here? If you really do your research with an open mind however, I think you might find your rankings from a professional standpoint slightly askew and aside from that even, in Canada, if you're motivated enough you can graduate from UBC to Mun and everywhere in between and still be a medical all-star.

[Lactic Folly]

Students from every Canadian school match into competitive specialties, and I don't think school "prestige" matters much for CaRMS, nor do I think that Canadian schools differ that much in terms of "prestige" at all. As the above posters said, it's much more dependent on the individual student. I'm not familiar with applying to the US for residency.

[DrOz]

Disclaimer: Supafield is a uOttawa medical student and is biased. So am I.

 

Both Hopeless and Supafield make great points. I'll add a few more specific reasons why I'm all about uOttawa:

 

Neither mentioned that our school is on the same campus as the Ottawa General, Rehabilitation Center, and CHEO (children's hospital of eastern ontario). Not just on the campus, it's all interconnected. You can be on the wards of any of these centres in 5 minutes from any part of the school. What does this mean to you? During our clinical skills course (PSD), our tutors generally know their patients, and impromptu took us to see them in the wards, with the exact illnesses we were studying and learning at the time. It wasn't part of the curriculum, and they didn't have to, but did anyways. Same deal with our case based learning sessions. That combined with a ton of time flexibility, and you can do whatever you want and really gain a lot of clinical exposure I know other schools aren't (or weren't) getting.

 

I'll **** on uOttawa for this: our student lounge terrible relative to other schools. It's adequate provided you don't mind sharing with all the other health professions, but there's no pool tables, pingpong, wide screen tv's, kitchen or bar. We still go play pool elsewhere, watch the super bowl, eat well, and hit the bars just fine.

 

Research. If you're wanting to go far in your medical career, I'm assuming you either mean research, or public health and policy. If it's the later, there is no better place than Ottawa for clearly obvious reasons. If it's the former, look at it this way: you're back in undergrad (MD that is, it's an undergrad). It's literally the tip of the iceberg in your medical career. After 4 years, you may go elsewhere for 5+ more at a different center/city/province/country. Then fellowship elsewhere, then a staff position elsewhere still. Where you do your MD is, frankly, a non-issue. Choose the program based on whether the curriculum fits your lifestyle. You can do research in anything your heart desires (especially the heart) in Ottawa, and it'll translate into success elsewhere down the road. Anecdotally, I left research I was doing in the subspec I'm gunning for to come to Ottawa, and I'm now doing more in the same subspec, but a different aspect of it. If anything, I've broadened and enriched my experience.

 

If you're REALLY keen on some specific school because of it's specific area of research in X, and you're not already involved in it (masters or phd that is), don't worry about it because if anything you're better off going there in residency. Also if you think you're all about specialty Y, the reality is you have no idea what you like, and you'll be able to experience it all here in Ottawa, on your own time, with the flexibility afforded by our curriculum design.

 

That being said, you got in. It's a dice roll. One wrong sentence in your interview can make the difference between in and out. I know of another in our class who got in multiple years in a row, didn't accept anywhere for a few, and regrets it. The people here are great, Ottawa is a very active city, the bar life and food is quite good (I come from better and I still say that), and I admit, the francophone/bilingual aspects of Ottawa as a city and a program add an interesting element to the mix that personally I enjoy.

[DrOz]

The thing is, a lot of people that I know are just trying to "get in" to med school, and I think they'll take it easier from here on out.

 

Define take it easier haha. I'd be willing to bet 85-90% of the students in every med class across canada are Type A to AAA. Absolutely everyone is on the go, there is really no taking it "easy" in the lazy, chill sense. Doesn't mean we don't know how to relax or have fun. Work hard, play hard, just about all of us in any medical program do it, some more than others.

 

Their reasoning for 'just trying to get in' and not caring about what program they get into is most likely because the admissions process across the board is a giant dice roll. The margin of error is incredibly slim. Example: admissions for my year (Class of 2014) at a particular school I interviewed in accepted applicants with a score of about 67, wait list was about 66, and rejected was like 65.5. The spread about those numbers was miniscule. Literally, a point here or there meant the difference between acceptance and outright rejection.

 

No one knows how to pick med students, because the reality is that for all 164 of us in uOttawa Class of 2014, there's at least another 164 applicants of the 3700 last year that deserve our spots just as much as we did, and that applies to every medical school in Canada.

[Whodey]

The people here are great, Ottawa is a very active city, the bar life and food is quite good (I come from better and I still say that), and I admit, the francophone/bilingual aspects of Ottawa as a city and a program add an interesting element to the mix that personally I enjoy.

 

DrOz, aren't you from Halifax? Are you saying Halifax bar life and food is better than Ottawa? Just curious, coming from a Haligonian that interviewed at Ottawa.

[DrOz]

DrOz, aren't you from Halifax? Are you saying Halifax bar life and food is better than Ottawa? Just curious, coming from a Haligonian that interviewed at Ottawa.

 

Halifax hands down, but I don't have enough experience with Montreal to comment there. I find Ottawa has a nice mix, there's lots to do (bar wise) and some good resto's. Thing about Halifax is they practically have the same # (or more) of bars and resto's but it's all within walking distance.

[CRK]

I've been living in Halifax for 4 years and have spent quite a bit of time in Ottawa as well. I definitely have to agree with DrOz.

[DrOz]

Not to say Ottawa has a boring bar life, it certainly doesn't, it's just not like home

[Louise25]

Hey, thanks for all the tips. I"ve also been accepted to Ottawa and like a lot of you after doing my research am pretty impressed.

 

I had a quick question though: (I've also been accepted to queen's so I'm looking at it comparatively)

 

- in terms of community, is Ottawa likely to be a more isolating experience? I know since Kingston is teensy everyone hangs out all together- is this the same for Ottawa?

 

- what did you mean by "67 accepted, 66 waitlisted..etc"... are those interview scores? are they out of 100? (sorry if this is a dumb q)

 

- Even though there's half the class time, Ottawa students still end up having to learn the same amount of material as students elsewhere... does this mean that the lectures are more rushed or give less details (that you're then expected to go fill in yourself)? Does this necessitate more self-teaching?

 

I like the PBL aspect of the curriculum, because I think its really relevant, but I prefer lecture style learning (even though I will then go home and review everything on my own) and being told what's important and what needs to be remembered.. does Ottawa put more on you as a student to teach yourself (this is kind of redundant wrt to above q but regardless..)

 

Thanks!!

[Dutch_girl]

Louise had some great questions I'd also be interested in knowing the answers to. Futhermore, could someone elaborate on the e-curriculum? I thought I read somewhere that it was mandatory to bring a laptop to every class. Is this in lieu of taking physical notes?

[kinemed]

Hey, thanks for all the tips. I"ve also been accepted to Ottawa and like a lot of you after doing my research am pretty impressed.

 

I had a quick question though: (I've also been accepted to queen's so I'm looking at it comparatively)

 

- in terms of community, is Ottawa likely to be a more isolating experience? I know since Kingston is teensy everyone hangs out all together- is this the same for Ottawa?

 

- what did you mean by "67 accepted, 66 waitlisted..etc"... are those interview scores? are they out of 100? (sorry if this is a dumb q)

 

- Even though there's half the class time, Ottawa students still end up having to learn the same amount of material as students elsewhere... does this mean that the lectures are more rushed or give less details (that you're then expected to go fill in yourself)? Does this necessitate more self-teaching?

 

I like the PBL aspect of the curriculum, because I think its really relevant, but I prefer lecture style learning (even though I will then go home and review everything on my own) and being told what's important and what needs to be remembered.. does Ottawa put more on you as a student to teach yourself (this is kind of redundant wrt to above q but regardless..)

 

Thanks!!

 

Do you mean the city of Kingston or the Queen's med class is small? Either way, our class is pretty social. Obviously not EVERYONE hangs out with everyone else - there are almost 120 of us - but it's pretty regular that we have class-wide parties or smaller get-togethers. The french class mostly does their own thing, although there are quite a few who socialize alot with the english class. There's are lots of class intramural teams too.

 

I think Dr. Oz was referring to other schools where post-interview you have a score where they rank you. That didn't apply to any schools where I applied (although that wasn't many), so I can't speak much to it. I think he was just pointing out how getting into med school requires a bit of luck.

 

I would say we get the same amount of detail, which can sometimes make you feel a little overwhelmed after a lecture. I think the greatest benefit of the shorter days is that you can stagger your studying and other activities as you wish - so if you study best at night, you don't have to sit through class all afternoon. Or, you don't have to go to lecture at all. I don't generally learn much beyond what we're taught in lecture, and use outside references mostly just to clarify anything I'm confused about. I think most others in my class would agree. However - you won't be told what is important and what needs to be remembered, because most of it does need to be remembered (...at least for the exam).

 

I think we have a good balance of CBL (different than PBL) and lecture. There is teaching within CBL as well - either from the tutor or other students. And most CBLs are linked relatively closely to the lectures that week. I don't feel that there's a lot of pressure to self-teach.

 

Hope that helps!

[kinemed]

Louise had some great questions I'd also be interested in knowing the answers to. Futhermore, could someone elaborate on the e-curriculum? I thought I read somewhere that it was mandatory to bring a laptop to every class. Is this in lieu of taking physical notes?

 

Nope, not mandatory at all - I don't bring mine once in awhile. It is useful to be able to take notes right on the slides though.

 

The e-curriculum isn't that different from what I experienced in undergrad - we have the powerpoints (usually) before lecture, CBL is online, as are the "self-learning modules" (SLM) that we have most weeks. There are other resources online for anatomy, radiology, patho, etc., but I tended only to use those if I needed to around exams.

[DrOz]

Hey, thanks for all the tips. I"ve also been accepted to Ottawa and like a lot of you after doing my research am pretty impressed.

 

I had a quick question though: (I've also been accepted to queen's so I'm looking at it comparatively)

 

- in terms of community, is Ottawa likely to be a more isolating experience? I know since Kingston is teensy everyone hangs out all together- is this the same for Ottawa?

 

- what did you mean by "67 accepted, 66 waitlisted..etc"... are those interview scores? are they out of 100? (sorry if this is a dumb q)

 

- Even though there's half the class time, Ottawa students still end up having to learn the same amount of material as students elsewhere... does this mean that the lectures are more rushed or give less details (that you're then expected to go fill in yourself)? Does this necessitate more self-teaching?

 

I like the PBL aspect of the curriculum, because I think its really relevant, but I prefer lecture style learning (even though I will then go home and review everything on my own) and being told what's important and what needs to be remembered.. does Ottawa put more on you as a student to teach yourself (this is kind of redundant wrt to above q but regardless..)

 

Thanks!!

 

You might need to elaborate on 'teensy', but my guess is you mean 'clique-y'. I'd say that this depends. There's plenty of people in the class originally from or near Ottawa that hang out both with our class and with their own pre-existing life (friends etc) pre-medschool. Then there's people like me who make a few friends here and there outside of med depending, but largely hangout within the class. That's mostly because I'm from a few provinces away and didn't know a soul in Ottawa upon arrival. To add to what kinemed said, I'd say that sure there's cliques of people within the class but they definitely mix it up and there's a ton of overlap. Largely, we all tend to hang out together quite a bit. I'd even say that the french class hangs out with the anglophones far more than Kinemed suggests, but certainly they do their own things as a class from time to time.

 

And yes the scores I was referring to was for a different med school that actually gave out complete breakdowns of all your scores in everything so you could see how you did. I don't think they do it any more due to the paperwork/admin headaches/whistle blowing it caused.

 

I don't study beyond the lectures 98% of the time with the exception of cardio, where I supplemented with Lily because it's such a great text. I will go online or check out uptodate.com (you'll know and love this website early on). Pro tip: You will NEVER know everything to your satisfaction in any med school. Come to terms with this early and you'll have a great year of both learning AND fun.

 

Self directed learning may be a misnomer, as that implies lack of structure set in place for you. With the exception of the puritan PBL schools, every med school in Canada spoon feeds their students with structure and organization, and Ottawa is no exception. The extra time is flexibility and that means the absolute world. Want to do something in the afternoon? Study at night. It also helps immensely during the winter months as you can actually enjoy the sunshine.

[Atreides]

I'm guessing that you've already decided on a school but there is one way I can think of that Ottawa's curriculum is better than Queen's. Queen's starts their clerkship in January of 3rd year which means they have 2.5 years of pre-clerkship, in classroom, time and only 1.5 years of in hospital time. As well, they can have elective time as early as their second rotation into clerkship. This means that they are not as prepared as we are in my opinion because I'll have completed a year of clerkship and ALL of my mandatory placements prior to doing any electives. I feel that the increased amount of experience will improve my performance on electives. As well, it gives you a longer time to decide on what specialty you would like as you get to try all of them prior to completing any electives.

[keano16]

This is inaccurate. This was the case in past years, but the curriculum has changed so that clerkship at Queen's now begins in September of 3rd year. My class (2013) was the final year to have the shorter clerkship.

 

I'm guessing that you've already decided on a school but there is one way I can think of that Ottawa's curriculum is better than Queen's. Queen's starts their clerkship in January of 3rd year which means they have 2.5 years of pre-clerkship, in classroom, time and only 1.5 years of in hospital time. As well, they can have elective time as early as their second rotation into clerkship. This means that they are not as prepared as we are in my opinion because I'll have completed a year of clerkship and ALL of my mandatory placements prior to doing any electives. I feel that the increased amount of experience will improve my performance on electives. As well, it gives you a longer time to decide on what specialty you would like as you get to try all of them prior to completing any electives.

[Atreides]

Oh sorry. I'm in 2012 so the Queens students I saw on elective had the 2.5 year Pre-clerkship. Didn't realize that had changed, thanks for letting me know!