jen_w Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 So I have worked in a research lab this summer, and I was wondering if asking whether the contribution that I've made during the 4 months warranted some form of authorship (certainly not first, but 3rd, 4th, 5th, whatever is available...) should this project see an end after with another student was too "greedy" and unreasonable of a question. I've worked hard, and I've had some results. Certainly 4 months will not result in ground-breaking work, but I've been optimizing and developing methodology using trial and error and literature search. I have helped the supervising phD student with his prep-work, but I also had a branched-off project, though of course, given the time contraint, didn't see completion. So is bringing up the possibility of getting on board with an authorship with the PI be an inappropriate question..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Perhaps phrase it as asking if there is anything else you can do to earn an authorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smile101 Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 I think this depends on the lab that you are in, but often to be an author on a paper you need to have done some sort of "intellectual contribution," so prep work wouldn''t count. However if you perfected some sort of unique protocol that the PhD student used to get results then maybe your name will go on the paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jen_w Posted August 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Hi thank you all for your reply. I do realize that prepwork certainly doesn't count and I do not expect an authorship from that part of my contribution -- certainly not! But my question was regarding my work optimizing and/or elaborating on published protocols to obtain necessary components for further research. It's a little ambiguous since it's not exactly repeating what the grad student has done before, and the phd student hasn't made the compound with equal success in isolation. However, it certainly wasn't the core part of the project. The more interesting portion was to come following my optimization of the protocols, but I had run out of time to reach that point... Does anyone have an idea if this would qualify as an "intellectual contribution" still? And I have asked the PI about the authorship via email (professionally and gently worded) but he totally dodged the question! What do? Did I ask something I shouldn't have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMarauder Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 In my lab, the MD/PhD had an undergrad optimize a certain technique. I remember the MD/PhD saying "if she is able to optimize this, I'll put her name on the paper". With that said, maybe you should ask in person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reflex Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Hi thank you all for your reply. I do realize that prepwork certainly doesn't count and I do not expect an authorship from that part of my contribution -- certainly not! But my question was regarding my work optimizing and/or elaborating on published protocols to obtain necessary components for further research. It's a little ambiguous since it's not exactly repeating what the grad student has done before, and the phd student hasn't made the compound with equal success in isolation. However, it certainly wasn't the core part of the project. The more interesting portion was to come following my optimization of the protocols, but I had run out of time to reach that point... Does anyone have an idea if this would qualify as an "intellectual contribution" still? And I have asked the PI about the authorship via email (professionally and gently worded) but he totally dodged the question! What do? Did I ask something I shouldn't have? What were the exact words that you used to ask your PI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jen_w Posted August 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 I asked if he needs to see my report in person to make changes before I left and I said something similar to.... I'm not sure how authorship process works exactly but I was just wondering if the data that I've contributed to the project would warrant a possible authorship. Is this problematic...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 If he dodged, then maybe he doesn't feel it is enough yet? This is for medical journals - see if there is something similar in your research lab's field, so you can assess where you are and suggest what you can do next: http://www.icmje.org/ethical_1author.html I don't know the particulars of your field, but is there anything smaller that you can write up - a technical note on your protocol perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jen_w Posted August 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Well the main bulk of my work was on creating protocols, but I have a sense that they don't trust the results of an undergrad, until a grad student repeats them and ensures that they indeed work as they are reported. (or that's what my phD student told me in the beginning when he started, stating the reasons why he found undergrads "useless" *sigh*) And it is true, I had tried to repeat the protocol that a previous undergrad student has made, and it did not go through as they had described in their labnotebook. I don't think it was my technique that was at fault, since the grad student also couldn't produce the results as described, following the protocols that undergrad has created. So perhaps the issue is at the general consensus in my field that undergrads are useless. What I just needed to confirm was that my question made me come across as greedy and ungrateful... that's all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jen_w Posted August 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Oh and I read Lactic Folly's link, and the amount of contribution is ambiguous, but I certainly don't qualify as it stands simply because I wasn't given the opportunity to write up the draft. My PI has simply asked me to write an extensively detailed protocols for others to repeat... And I was kind of hoping that if he agrees to meet up with me in person after his vacation, I could maybe ask what more can I do to qualify for authorship.. or something of that sort. Oh man, this is all so new to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 What I just needed to confirm was that my question made me come across as greedy and ungrateful... that's all I wouldn't be that harsh - it's a fair question that I'm sure everyone working in a lab wonders about. In my post above, I suggested that wording to convey that you were ambitious and interested, but that you didn't feel entitled and were willing to work for it given the opportunity. There are probably multiple ways of going about this - perhaps do a search on asking for a raise or promotion on other job advice sites for similar strategies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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