How does the 4.0 point GPA system work?

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<threadtitle>To apply or not to apply...that is the question.</threadtitle>

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UNSURE

 

 

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<title>To apply or not to apply...that is the question.</title>

<pagetext>Hey people,

 

with all other things considered satisfactory, if you had a mediocore GPA (~ 3.5)...

how do you decide which schools to apply to?

 

if you are a couple of ticks below the minimum cutoffs, do you still apply?

 

if you are a couple of ticks OR 0.1 GPA below the minimum cutoffs for a school IN YOUR PROVINCE, do you still apply?

 

if you are a couple of ticks below minimums for a school OUT OF PROVINCE, do you still apply?

 

I need some professional advice in dealing with this matter...

 

eg. U of T says min. GPA 3.6..... hhmmmm?

 

 

Thanks people.

[Guest therealcrackers]

Difficult decision. But your question gives me a chance to rant about a few things.

 

a) 3.5 is NOT a mediocre GPA. It is a very good GPA. Additionally, if you still have a year or more of undergraduate left, this number could still go higher (and a couple of schools, Western and Queen's in particular, emphasize your most recent year).

 

Statistically you may feel you are a borderline candidate. What about PERSONALLY? Who are you? Why do you want to do medicine? Do you think you can help people, being at their worst, and at their best? Can you handle the pressure cooker of undergrad med. ed., the amount of material you might have to cover, and still be kind?

 

c) Statistically you may feel you are a borderline candidate. This mania with GPA and stats is like the stock market. "These past figures are not reflective of future performance." Nobody knows the cut-offs for each school until the composite of the COMPLETE applicant pool is generated, and that isn't until after the OMSAS clearing house gets their act together at least a month after the applications are due. In short, you won't know if you're competitive until you stick your name in.

 

d) It is nobler to take arms against a sea of applications, and by opposing end them, rather than to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous MCAT scores.

 

e) Out of province is another matter, and I can't fairly comment on that. Ian, ManitobaMed, medicator, monkey, anyone else take a crack at that question?

 

f) If you do decide to go for it, GO FOR IT! Dedicate your application time to presenting your self in the most honest, best light. The fringe benefits of having to "evaluate yourself" for such a rigorous process are nice--it's a good way to take stock of your situation. And until you submit, the only thing it costs you is time. Well, maybe a little thought, a little sweat, some printer paper and a cartridge...

 

 

I hope that helps your decision-making. Good luck.

 

To apply, perchance to dream.... ay, there's the rub...

[Guest UWOMED2005]

On the whole, I agree with my classmate crackers completely. But I'll get into a little more of the nitty-gritty. . . Keep in mind though that some schools though use pretty strict GPA cutoffs, and if your GPA falls below that, they won't even look at the application. I know this is the case for Dal for OOP - you need over 3.7 for each of the LAST TWO years to be considered OOP. (If you're from NS though, definitely apply - the cutoff is 3.3) In fact, for many schools if you are OOP you have to be more competitive to get in.

 

One of the difficult things is that each school has different admissions criteria and you kind of have to study each of them carefully to see if you have a good shot. It's more complicated than just having your overall GPA over a certain mark. Here would be my suggestions based on the info provided. . . keep in mind they are strictly my OPINION.

 

Western - If at least one of you're FULL ACADEMIC YEARS (ie 5 courses) is above 3.55, then it's definitely worth a shot. UWO looks at your BEST year and your LAST year (ie the one you're going into now, if you haven't already finished.) As long as your BEST year is above the cutoff (has varied between 3.57 and 3.65 the last 5 years, last year was 3.65 but it definitely varies) and your MCATs are good enough, you should get an interview. You then have to keep your last year above the cutoff though.

Mac - Apply. Mac interview invites remains a mystery to some, but they do accept applicants with 3.5 gpas regularly.

U of O - They look primarily at your GPA and location. Contact them for more info. . . my memory was that for non-Ontario residents the cutoff was around 3.80, but if you're from Ottawa it's much lower (3.6is?) and if you're from a Francophone community or "underserviced location" (ie Moose factory. . . or even Kitchener, Waterloo, Windsor & Guelph)

U of T - I think U of T is another "gpa school". . . I haven't heard of anyone getting an interview at U of T with below a 3.71 gpa. Someone else might know differently though.

Queen's - Depends on what your LAST TWO years are, but my guess it's worth a shot. Their cutoff has been pretty consistently 3.57 for the last few years. . . could move. My understanding is that this can be for the whole degree OR the last two years.

Outside Ontario - I'm not as familiar on this, except for Dal.

 

BTW -Take a poke around. . . I think this topic has been discussed before on this board and the messages should still be around.

 

Good Luck.

[Guest iamanurse]

... I remember seeing a page on this site that listed each of the medical schools and their admission criteria (min GPA, prereqs, tuition costs, etc). I have been trying to find it again - unsuccessfully.

 

Any idea where I might locate such info? (I thought it was among the Premed 101 section - but I may be wrong)

 

Thanks.

[Guest JSS02]

If you're basing the minimums on past years, and you're close, then definitely apply. They can change every year. If you have a 3.5ish cumulative GPA, Western, Queen's, and Mac are worth trying out.

 

U of T says 3.6, but they do have a weighting formula if you're applying in fourth year (worst year counts for 20%, other two years count for 40% each) or after fourth year (drop your worst year, second worst counts for 20%, other two years count for 40% each). Using this weighting formula you might be over 3.6. If not, they probably won't even read your essay. Plus, it sounds like an undergrad applicant usually needs a weighted GPA in the upper 3.7's to even have a decent chance at an interview. I've heard something about special consideration for people with outstanding life experiences, but don't know much about it. If you're a grad student they only require a 3.0 before looking at your application, as grad students are evaluated differently.

 

Ottawa's GPA cutoffs are near 3.8 if you're not from an underserved area and applying to the English program. Even higher if you're out of province. But they also have a weighting formula, with your most recent years counting the most.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Thanks JSS02. . . I forgot about the weighting formulas.

[Guest ManitobaMed]

For Manitoba (and the other western schools, I think), it can be a little tricky to figure these things out for OOP because interviews are not granted automatically based on meeting a posted cut-off. Instead, you must be within the top x number of OOP applicants, depending on how many the school wishes to interview. Therefore, your chances depend on the strength of the rest of the OOP applicant pool. (By contrast, at Manitoba, all in-province applicants who meet the cut-offs of 3.6 AGPA and ~8,8,8 M are interviewed.)

 

What I can say for Manitoba:

1. Your AGPA (adjusted grade point average) *must* be above 3.6, but, according to the U of M's posted stats from last year, you would probably need an AGPA of 3.9+ if applying as an OOP (unless your MCAT scores are *really* high).

 

Points to consider: The AGPA will usually be higher than your overall GPA for a couple of reasons. The first is that, depending on the number of courses you've completed, you can drop some of your lowest marks (but NOT biochem or English). The second is that any marks in the 90 - 100 range count for a 4.5, rather than a 4, and marks in the 80-89 range count for a 4. So, to determine whether you are likely to receive an interview, you should calculate your AGPA on the U of Manitoba scale.

 

2. Your MCAT scores are more important than your GPA. Last year's stats show that all OOP applicants interviewed had average MCAT scores between 10.5 and 13.0. If your average MCAT falls much below the 10.5 threshold, an interview might not be granted, regardless of AGPA.

 

 

Ultimately, in order to consider your chances at any given school, it's important to calculate your stats according to the formula used by that school. Good luck!

[Guest monkey]

Hey Unsure,

 

You didnt mention your MCAT values. I think schools look at the MCAT as an equalizer. its a standardized exam and if you do well on that, it shows them you can handle med school. and so that is why i think it can help you significantly if you do very well. at the same time, if you do average it wont hinder your application.

 

For Queens, all i know is that if you get below 10 for verbal there is no point in applying. they wont consider you for interview w/out a 10 on a verbal.

 

For Calgary, its a very hard system to explain. they seem to choose based on so many factors taht you cannot even begin to explain. if i remember correctly UC has a cutoff of 3.6 for OOP. Someone please clarify this for me. but if you're in province, a 3 (or was it 3.3?) is good. UC is more focused on maturity and life experience. They very rarely take 2nd year students b/c they want someone who has experienced life and knows what they're getting themselves into. So the essay componenet and extracurricular is important. to get more detailed info of course check out their website and the UC thread on this forum. it'll give you a better idea of what to expect and perhaps what to deliver to them.

 

For UAlberta, its concrete. They have specific percentages assigned for each component of the application which will help them decide if you get an interview or not, and whether they will accept you or not.

 

Cumulative average of university years: 10%

Prerequisite course 25%

MCAT 15%

Interview 25%

Essay 15%

Reference Letters 5%

 

When Confirmation of succssful completion of any of the Degrees listed below is received in the Faculty of Medicine's Admissions Office, additional points may be allocated to your application:

 

M.Sc. 2 points

Ph.D. 3 points

Honors 3 points

 

The last honours thing is new for this year. so if you graduate with B.Sc Hnrs you will have a bit more of an edge than someone who only graduates with a B.Sc. The GPA system of UA is different in that their scale is out of a 9 instead of a 4. if you are coming from a 4.0scale, this puts you at a disadvantage... b/c a 3.7 converts to a 8.3 or something...on the UA forum it was explained how you can convert the GPA over from 4 to a 9 scale. if you are considering UA i'd recommend you look it over.

Also, your pre-requisite courses (bio,orgo,etc.) are very important. Those are the marks that matter when it comes to getting an interview. the better you do the better your chances. but at the same time, if you dont do well, do a higher level course. if you do well in that, the UA ppl consider that instead and all's good.

 

i suggest you check out the following link:

www.med.ualberta.ca/ugme/...medfaq.cfm

to find out more on this and other stuff pertaining to applying to their school.

 

i know i didnt really explain much in terms of whether you should apply or not, but just like crackers said, it depends on your personal achievements and what all you've got to say in the essay. people dont have to have stellar GPA's to get in. they have to have the right kind of attitude and kind heart as well as dedication to do this.

[Guest martha]

hi!

good day!

 

just want to ask if their is a chance that you will accept filipino citizen in your school? Im currently a third year student taking up biology in Univesity of Santo tomas.

thanks so much!

God bless!

and more power!

martha

[Guest confused2ndyear]

I attend UBC and we do not use the GPA system. Rather, we use letter grades and percentages.

 

How the heck does it work?

 

Here is the grading system at UBC:

 

80-84 - A-

85-89 - A

90-100 - A+

 

I know a 4.0 GPA corresponds to an A+, but does that mean the person got 100% overall in all his/her courses?

 

This is especially confusing when all Ontario schools use this system.

[Guest Trying to DeSYDE]

Hi all,

 

I am currently a systems design student at the University of Waterloo and I am trying to decide whether it is even worth applying to Mac next year. I will have years 1 & 2 of engineering done, + 10 other 2nd year and higher courses(mostly second year science since I transfered from that program). This meets their 30 half courses requirement, but even I'm skeptical that they will consider someone with ~18 second year courses, a 3rd and a 4th.

My motivation for applying to Mac is that I won't have the MCAT written any time soon, it is a shorter program(I'm a mature student), and I think I'd enjoy PBL. My extra cirriculars in unviersity are a little thin (I volunteer at the hospital), and my prior work experience is varied but unrelated (i.e. I use to be a professional ballet dancer).

 

So in a nutshell: Should I apply or wait for 3rd year? What can I do to enhance my chances of getting in?

 

Kevin

 

p.s. my gpa is 3.9 so far (but falling 'cause engineering is hard)

[Guest peachy3]

I'd say, apply for sure!

 

Assuming the few hundred dollars is not a huge issue, what do you have to lose? You probably won't get in - because that's true of ANYBODY who applies to Mac, no matter how good they are! A few thousand applicants, a few hundred spots, EVERYBODY has a bad chance of getting in.

 

BUT, filling out the application is a great chance to learn about yourself and why you want to go to med school, and what your weaknesses are. Getting a percentile back on your application is probably useful. Experiencing the interview is DEFINITELY useful.

 

And hey, you might just get in. In all likelihood, a whole bunch of people will respond to this to say how great your chances are. But even the worst-case scenario looks pretty good to me!!

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<threadtitle>Weird question</threadtitle>

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<pagetext>Does anyone here know someone who got into med school and didn't actually graduate high school? Like someone who did a degree as a special student or who did an equivalency exam and then went to university? I know people in Ph.d programs who did this but for med school?

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<threadtitle>How does the 4.0 point GPA system work?</threadtitle>

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<threadtitle>An Interesting Article Submitted by a Physician Attorney</threadtitle>

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LAWMD

 

 

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<title>An Interesting Article Submitted by a Physician Attorney</title>

<pagetext>An exerpt from an interesting article submitted by a physician attorney for a law magazine that I read (i'm an MD going to law school right now). This is probably where Canada is headed.

 

 

For doctors, it depends on where they are. I know doctors, several years out, very good training, very good physicians, who make less than $75K. I've represented physicians with over 20 years of experience who are happy to get $150K. If it's a managed care saturated market, no cash for physicians. Over half the physicians in California want to get out of the state or get out of the practice all together because compensation levels and the intangible rewards of practicing there are so low. There are about six or seven other states that are about as bad. And then there's the malpractice insurance market, which has gotten really out of hand lately. Some of the bitching and moaning is based on seeing old time physicians who practiced in the seventies and eighties who just rolled in the cash, buying airplanes and ranches and mansions and a stable of sports cars, etc.

 

The word hasn't exactly gotten out that you're not guaranteed real money unless you're in a super-specialty or in a cash based practice (mainly plastic surgery, or are so well known in your field you can refuse to take health insurance and still have a full schedule). They don't understand the way that health care is funded. They have no clue about the complexities of medical billing and the run around that they're going to get from the insurance companies when they start submitting claims. Some of them have no idea what CMS stands for, much less that for a lot of them, the majority of their fees will be paid by CMS. They also don't understand that physicians aren't looked upon as nicely as they used to be. They're seen as greedy and impersonal, and I think it's going to get worse over the next few years, ESPECIALLY given how much the younger ones will be resented by the older ones over the next few years with the new residency work hours rules. The older ones see the bitching about 80 hour weeks to be an unwillingness to pay their dues, and the refusal to be on call for more than 24 hours straight will actually hurt some of the smaller training programs, because there won't be enough residents to cover.

 

There are still great benefits in being a physician, especially the feel good about what you're doing factor, but it's harder and harder every year, and the benefits over time will probably only be seen by those at the very top, not all around.

 

Anonymous physician attorney