Guest Emma Posted March 24, 2002 Report Share Posted March 24, 2002 Hi, I was wondering if there's already stats out there regarding the number of med schools people apply to. It seems to me that Ontario applicants apply to about 3 schools. What about applicants in other provinces where there is only one med school? This question came up because I was reading some MCAT prep book which recommends applying to 10 med schools at once. I think it makes sense in the states to do so... Any comments or feedback would be appreciated. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brandonite Posted March 24, 2002 Report Share Posted March 24, 2002 I think it depends much more on your situation... I mean, I applied to six - five 'dream schools' in the US, and the University of Manitoba. I was pretty sure I'd get into Manitoba, so I didn't really worry too much about back up schools... But I think that if you're pretty confident, you can get away with appling to three or four. If you're not too sure, apply to more. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brandonite Posted March 24, 2002 Report Share Posted March 24, 2002 Oh, and things are definitely different in the US... Where are you from? If you're from Ontario, you'll have to apply to a few schools to give yourself a good chance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JD Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 Most Ontario students that have taken the MCAT for the first time in August but don't know their scores yet will apply to all 5 schools... if they haven't written it yet, then they'd just apply to Mac and Ottawa. If you want to apply out of province (a good idea) as well, keep in mind that many of the schools require a full credit in English. Calgary, McGill, and Dalhousie do not, if I'm not mistaken... also, McGill requires a 4 year degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 Do you mean you applied to private schools in the states? You must have very good credentials if you are confident you'll get into manitoba. No disrespect, but isn't it kind of elitist to prefer one of the private schools in the US, where you will be paying 140k US in total tuition, over a school in Canada where you'll pay nothing in comparison? I personally think it is a misconception that the ivy league schools provide a better education, as curriculum is standard by and large, and education is what you make it. You could always do away rotations in these places during clinical years couldn't you? Also, if a name brand school appeals to you, I'm wondering why you didn't apply to UT, McGill or UBC as they are big name schools but cost less in all 4 years than one year at a Columbia or a Yale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Liana Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 J, All very valid points about the disadvantages of pursuing an American medical education (not to mention the fact that it's next to impossible to try to come back to Canada to practice). Medical school quality is standard across Canada and the more prestigious schools in the US, but don't forget you get what you pay for. Medical schools in Canada (if you can get into them, since most boast 1:4 admissions ratios, except in Ontario where you're looking at more like 1:8 on average) are limited by the amount of money they can get from the government, donations, and what they are allowed to charge in tuition. In the US, there is no limit on the amount of tuition money they can charge, but the schools are equally capable of receiving government funds, which means that they can afford top notch facilities and attract money-hungry researchers of high calibre, which does make some difference, but not a lot. However, for some, moving to the US is simply a personal choice, and if the finances work out, one might argue that you may as well move there as soon as possible if that's where you plan on spending the rest of your life. Do you really think it's fair to be wasting the money that the Canadian government spends subsidizing your medical education just so you can move away as soon as you finish? Finally, regarding your comment that one should consider the more reputable Canadian universities, I would still consider that applying to a private school in the US (even Columbia) is probably easier than getting into UT, McGill or UBC. If you're not from Quebec or BC (as in the case of brandonite) you have very little hope at getting into McGill or UBC, and UT isn't exactly a crapshoot either. If you have great marks, American schools will be begging you to come. If you have great marks in Canada, UBC, UT, and McGill might be willing to give you the honour of going for an interview; even if you built five hospitals in developing countries, cured cancer and diabetes, and adopted 5 Afghan refugee children all by the time you turned 18, you're still subject to the almost random process as all of the other well-qualified applicants who are turned down in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brandonite Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 I'm interested in research and academic medicine. And I don't like the cities of Toronto or Montreal, to be perfectly frank. UBC I seriously considered, because I do like Vancouver, but it is almost impossible to get in there as an OOP. And like I said, I am reasonably confident that I'll get into Manitoba, and I'd prefer to go to Manitoba over any other school in Canada. Both because of quality of the school, and proximity to family/friends. I don't think it's elitist to want to go to a top US school... The opportunities at a school like Duke or Stanford are amazing. At Duke, they compress the whole first two years of study into one year, and they give you a whole year to do research. Most of their students get full funding for this year, and they end up at some sort of amazing research laboratory. So, I really like the flexibility of the cirriculum, which you can't get at any school in Canada. I want to both do research and practice in the future, and the name of your school has a lot to do with your success in the future getting grants or jobs in academia. And, even within Canada, the name "Stanford" carries a lot more weight than "Toronto". The economics of the situation are tough. But it's far from impossible to pay back those large loans you get in the US. It's almost routine for med students to be $200,000 US in debt, and all you have to do is practice for a few years in the states to pay back that loans. And, it is relatively easy to come back to Canada after you're done your residency. Actually, depending on what VISA you get, it might actually be required for you to come back to Canada to practice. I fully intend to live and work in Canada after I get my degree and do my residency. I would just like to go down there for a few years for those amazing opportunities... But, despite all that I've said above, I think I'll probably end up at Manitoba. I can get into the reasons why I think I'll get into Manitoba if you wish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 Good comments, thanks for the discussion. I must admit that I was looking at things from a more clinical medicine point of view, I forget that people are actually interested in academic medicine (kidding). I suppose the programs down there that you have researched would be superior in that regard, and you do seem to have done your research. I agree that it would be unethical to be publicly funded through a canadian medical school knowing you are going to the US afterwards. One clarification, my comment regarding chosing a more reputable canadian school (ie UT) was meant for Brandonite's ambitions, not for myself. Chosing a school on reputation is not a priority for me. I put more emphasis on curriculum, clinical sites, tuition, and perhaps most imporant, a cool place to live for 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 123 Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 I'd love to hear the reasons why you're confident about getting into Manitoba, brandonite :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Liana Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 J, I totally agree with your notion of choosing a school based on somewhere you would want to spend the next 4 years of your life. While I'm not exactly in a situation where I can be the one picking the school I go to, I did ultimately decide when I applied, that I would only apply to schools that I felt I would be truly happy in. Since I'm young, and am open to doing a master's before I enter medical school, I have the luxury of being able to do this, knowing that if I don't get in, I'll just do some other things, and reapply until I'm successful. Unfortunately, I know a lot of people aren't so lucky, and a lot of people are less picky with where they want to go to school. Yes, it's true that your medical education is the same everywhere. But I figure, it's four years of my life, and I don't mind waiting and reapplying a few more times if necessarily, so I want to make sure I'm going to go somewhere I like. For those of you collecting the stats on how many schools everyone applied to, I applied to 2 Ontario schools. I applied to Queen's, but not Western, so there are at least a few students who don't overlap between those schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brandonite Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 Well, first of all, I'm going to say this again - I want to work and practice in Canada. No question about that. I would just go down there for my MD (and probably my residency) and then come back to Canada. I'd like to split my time between practicing, research, and teaching. I love teaching - I work as a TA right now, so I think I'd really enjoy that. Academic medicine sounds very much like it's for me... As to why I think I'll get into Manitoba... Well, getting into med school in Manitoba when you're an in-province resident is very much easier than say, in Ontario. They only interview about 200 people for 70 spots, so right away, if you get an interview, you have a 1 in 3 chance. The criteria for getting an interview are a GPA above 3.6 on the Manitoba scale (drop worst 30 credit hours, A+ is worth 4.5), and MCATs above 8 in all areas. After that, they give you a final score based on your MCAT, GPA, and interview/letters of rec/essay. MCAT is worth 50%, GPA is worth 10%, and the other stuff is worth 40%. My MCAT marks are very high - a mixture of luck, and skill at taking standardized tests. I scored a 13-15 VR, 13 PS, 12 BS, and a P. Now, Manitoba broke down their applicants last year by MCAT score, and showed how each group did in getting in. I fit into the highest bracket, and last year there were 2 people in there, both of whom got in. All of the people in the bracket below mine got in last year as well. So, that makes me fairly confident. And I'm thinking that my essay/letters must be good, because I did interview at Duke, which is very competitive. And, there is a bit of a bias at Manitoba towards rural applicants, and I live in a town of 500 people right now. So, I know that nothing is ever for sure in med school land. And I know that I may come across here as incredibly arrogant. But I hope not, because I don't think of myself that way. I just think I have a really good chance at Manitoba. And, like I said, I would pick Manitoba over Queens/Western/MacMaster/Alberta/Calgary, so I didn't want to waste thousands of dollars applying to schools that I wouldn't really want to go to, and that I probably wouldn't get into either. Make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brandonite Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 Oh, and as to choosing a school based on reputation... It's not something I would really agree with for a clinician. I think you might actually get a better clinical education at most Canadian schools than even the top US schools, just from what I've seen and heard. It just becomes an issue for research and academic medicine. If you're applying for a research grant or trying to get an academic job somewhere, then the name of your school does matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 123 Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 Brandonite, it doesn't sound arrogant at all, but thanks for clarifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JD Posted March 29, 2002 Report Share Posted March 29, 2002 Hey Liana, I was just wondering what your reasons were for applying to Queen's but not Western. (i.e. what does Queen's have that UWO does not)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Liana Posted March 29, 2002 Report Share Posted March 29, 2002 JD, It's nothing specifically regarding the medical school, I just happen to have a dislike of Western in general. It's just a feeling I've had from visiting the university campus prior to undergrad studies. Even though medicine is completely separate from undergrad, from what I understand, you still spend your first two years on the main campus, and I just got a bad feeling about the campus in previous visits (the layout, the city - which is just too large for my tastes, and the general attitude of a lot of the undergrad students I met, who, while they are not in med classes with you, are still THERE). From what I know about the program itself, there's no reason to choose Queen's over Western, except perhaps that Queen's class is slightly smaller and *may* be more closely knit. Queen's students apparently have more time for other activities than Western's students in the first two years, and there is no requirement to have a car by 3rd year. However, in equal (perhaps better, depending on your point of view) defense, Western does offer a longer, and better laid-out period for clinical exposure, and this certainly is one of the major draws students have to Western. Ultimately, for me, I had a "feeling" about Queen's that I never got from Western. I'm sure the medical program is great, but I honestly couldn't stand living in London for 4 years. I am just as open to finishing my Bachelor's degree (and potentially even doing a Master's) prior to starting my medical studies as I am to entering this September, so aside from the time and money expended this application cycle, I won't be majorly losing out if I don't get into Queen's this time around. However, I do choose my lifestyle experiences very much on the feeling of things, and I'm quite sure that Queen's is where I would like to go; it seems silly for me to apply to other schools that are my second choices, when I would be just as happy continuing with my other studies in the interim, and reapplying next year. Absolutely nothing against Western, though, just a personal choice, and I imagine more students care more about just getting in ASAP than they do about school and atmosphere and whatnot. Plus, granted, most or all of the Canadian medical schools offer desirable environment, I just happen to be picky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Emma Posted March 30, 2002 Report Share Posted March 30, 2002 Hi brandonite, Sorry, I was out of the loop for awhile. I'm from BC and there is only one school in this province. I guess it looks like I'd have to apply to at least 3 to 4 schools to increase my chances. After much needed research, I realize that OOP students face higher GPA requirements in a lot of Canadian schools. Do you know if it's similar in the states, i.e. Canadian students need higher GPA to apply or to be considered? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JD Posted March 30, 2002 Report Share Posted March 30, 2002 3 of the 5 Ontario schools (Toronto, Western, Queen's), don't have higher requirements for out of province applicants... so it certainly wouldn't hurt to apply there. As for the States, the main issue for them isn't your marks or MCAT scores (they look at you generally as they would any American), but your ability to pay them $200K upfront... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Liana Posted March 30, 2002 Report Share Posted March 30, 2002 I believe (though I could be wrong) that Ottawa considers out of province students in the same pool as out of Ontario student or francophones; however, given that the general cutoff GPA to be considered has been ~3.85 in previous years, if you competitive at Ottawa from out of province, you're probably also competitive at any other Canadian school as an official "Out of province" student. One point to note, Emma, is that Ontario schools tend to have higher GPA and MCAT requirements than most other provinces have for their in-province students, so if you're worried about being competitive for UBC markwise, you might not fare a whole lot better in Ontario. However, if you have a GPA around 3.65, and have a fair number of extracurricular activities, you'd be competitive at UWO and Queen's in Ontario, which tend to look more at the whole person rather than the GPA (provided you meet the minimum standard). You can also try applying to McMaster, although I'm not totally sure what their policy is on out of province students. They tend to pay minimal attention to the marks, but seek very well-rounded applicants. It's a crap-shoot (30 people apply for every 1 spot, and applying from out of province doesn't help) but if you write a really strong autobiographical submission, they just might invite you for an interview. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JSS02 Posted March 30, 2002 Report Share Posted March 30, 2002 Ottawa and McMaster do have out of province restrictions, though I don't think either of them have a limited number of spots in their class for OOP applicants. Ottawa has a cutoff near 3.9 for OOP applicants, compared to 3.8ish for Ontario residents who aren't Aboriginal, Francophone, or from the Ottawa region or any underserved area. McMaster takes 90% of its interviewees from Ontario, but if an out of province applicant gets interviewed, he/she has as good a chance as anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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