Question about careers and stuff

[Guest Jeffery T]

Good Morning:

 

My question is the following:

 

My goal is to earn a very big salary, infact I would like to earn the most amount of money possible with the least amount of risk. What do you think I should go into?

 

Should I become a doctor and head to one of those (insert $ in eyeballs) specialties that the money hungry docs head into ie ENT, plastic surgery, opthamology

 

Should I become a dentist, and cash in on the $700 (18 minute procedure) crowns and bridges

 

Should I go into Law that pays big ie corporate law

 

Should I go into MBA ie consulting, investment banking, owning own business?

 

I have just completed my first year (6 full courses) with a mix of 4 science courses (chem,Physics, Bio,Calculus), 2 half credit business courses Economics, Accounting and 1 english literature course. I just got my marks back and I finished with a 3.96/4.00 with my lowest mark being an 84 and the highest being 100 (calculus). So i am good in all areas, but as mentioned previously I really only care about making the biggest bucks possible.

 

I'm not trying to sound obnoxious but I'm really just being honest about my goals, I'm sure there are alot of med students just like me, but they would look like assholess if they stated their true motivations.....I have read some posts from thugjann(i think thats the name) that make it pretty clear he's in it for the $$$, and I say good for him!

 

Now I know if I go to med school I may take the spot of someone who will probably make a better doc, ie they care about people and really want to help, but oh well thems the breaks! So please no speeches about who should truly become a doc, just a really candid discussion about how to make the most money with the least risk in order to amass the most material wealth one can have without winning the lottery.

 

thanks alot

Jeffery T

UofT 0T6

[Guest Ian Wong]

Kevin Garnett pulled in $19.6 million playing b-ball in 2000-2001 as a 24 year old. Not bad bucks for someone with only a high school education. Or you could use your smarts to invent something like the photocopier that makes perfect counterfeit bills, or start up a grow-op or something. Lots of cash there too, and you don't even have to pay taxes...

 

Ian

UBC, Med 3

[Guest Champ]

Dear Jeffrey,

 

You may want to consider Management Consultancy. Their pay scale increases steeply with every year. Yuo travel quite alot , it is challenging, but you may have to work harder that you want to. Try McKinsey, Bain, Erntst and Young, Anderson Consulting. Each one has it strengths and weaknesses. McKinsey is more creative brain thinking while Anderson is more numbers based.

 

Also have you considered actuarial science?

 

champ

[Guest Jeffery T]

Good Morning Ian Wong:

 

Right.... good point Ian, there is another criteria that I forgot to include. I would like the career to NOT land me in jail, so that leaves out growing pot and printing bills (good one though!)

 

secondly, forget about athletics, I couldn't even make the varsity hockey or soccer teams, so there's no hope to become an professional sports player. I want to work with my strengths which are in academics not athletics!

 

Please keep the dialoge coming its really appreciated

 

thank you also Champ for your thoughts

 

Jeffery T

UofT 0T6

[Guest PeterHill0501]

Jeffrey T,

 

If you really want to make good money...sure, you can go into medicine...my take is you'll probably not like it as the money may not be as good as it seems...the three specialties you mention are, I believe, one of the highest paying ones...however, just to add a bit of data...one of my mentors was an Ophthalmologist (he recently retired) in Quebec...and later out west...his specialty was cataract surgery...he could do many pairs of eyes in a day...he was extremely comfortable...but by no means rich (depending on your standards). Then there's that helping people thing...it's not really glamourous to be taking care of extremely sick people...which there are many...you really have to like it...I personally believe it's kind of like the side of parenting that no new parent will ever truly give you the straight story of...it's sometimes extremely unpleasant...but you'll be the one tasked with dealing with it...so the desire to help and heal had better be a baseline and heartfelt one or you'll really be upset with yourself for taking the route you did.

 

On the other hand, we have friends who are lawyers...now there's some good money...and you don't have to help physically or mentally ill people on a regular basis (although this is definitely debatable!).

 

Another great source of revenue is to build your own company...lots of hard work...but if you create something unique or offer a unique service to the massess you'll make the kind of cash you're looking for. My friend amasses electronic lists of people who invest in companies and companies requing funding to start or move to the next stage of growth...he matches the two up via electronic messaging and is paid by both companies for a match...put it this way...he's 39...in a mansion on Kilberry street in TO and lets just say he doesn't have to work...but I must warn you...not everyone can do this...I've tried similar things to my friend and not been successful to nearly the same extent...he just seems to have a knack for it. By the way, he barely graduated highschool and he's been a multi-millionaire 3 times now (and he swears he will never lose it again! But his is another long story). Oh, he also has a wall of servers in his basement that fax out all night and day...I believe from those servers he collects 1/4 cent per fax while he sleeps...now that's cash!

 

Finally, dentistry...yes, great money...but then there's that helping people thing again...if you really don't truly like it deep down in your heart (which I think you plainly indicated you really have no true interest in) I think you'll just plain dislike your job...cause it's not all glamour and fun, that's for sure.

 

The last comment I would have is for you to really think about the following statement you made:

 

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote>Quote:<hr> Now I know if I go to med school I may take the spot of someone who will probably make a better doc, ie they care about people and really want to help, but oh well thems the breaks! <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->

 

Although I've already said it once, if you have the broad skills and the desire to make money that you have, there are better choices than medicine. You really should consider leaving one more spot for someone who truly desires and has worked their entire life to becoming a doctor...

 

Peter

[Guest TimmyMax]

Dude,

 

Go make movies- there's lots of money in that and you don't even ahve to have any talent to pull in the big bucks! Score!

[Guest Akane200]

Ha ha ha, so funny Ian! :lol

 

If you want big money, there's also the lottery.

 

If you want to go into medicine, it will be a good ten years before you can start making money (and even longer if you're going to pay off that $120k debt). That, and you have to really like it to do for the rest of your life (do you like seeing sick patients?).

 

Law school: I have friends there. You can make lots of money if you are the few ppl who can land a good Bay street type job (corporate law!).

 

Dentistry: lots of money there, but you have to do that for the rest of your life too.

 

MBA: very portable, nice office job, good money if you get a good firm. I just found business extremely boring. But that's just me.

 

I think starting up some biotech firm and making all the money off of an IPO sounds good too (kinda like dot coms a couple of years ago, but biotech seems to be the thing that's in style now).

[Guest MarmotYVR]

Jeffrey -

 

Have you thought of being an actuary? The money is good, and you start straight out of undergrad (actuarial sciences, available at U of T)! Think of all those extra money-earning years vs meds/dents/law! That said, there are a million exams you have to write post-grad, but you study for them while employed, so no lost income there.

 

Good luck in your quest for cash!

 

Marmot

[Guest utapp]

MBA is definitely the best choice...especially if you have the right connections and can make it to CEO of a big company and cash in your stock options before your company stinks...a la John Roth. Forget about medicine...why would you want to spend another four long years in school plus residency training. Sure you can make big money in medicine but you have to work (hard) for it and you have the added responsibility of caring for people whereas in business all you have to worry about is making more money (ie sounds like your dream job).

[Guest Lawgirl79]

If you go into law, you can make 65 000 as an articling student and then around 85 000 your first year as an associate. Someone in a previous post said that only a few students land jobs like these, but that's not quite true--if you go to a good school and get a B average, you can have a Bay street job (or the equivalent in Montreal or Vancouver). You could also go right to New York upon graduation and work for 125 000 US starting salary (seriously). If you want the US, though, you should go to U of T or McGill, since Americans have pretty much only heard of these 2 schools. I know at McGill we have a lot of firms from NY and Boston come recruit.

[Guest Jeffery T]

thanks alot to many of you

 

Regarding acturaries, I have researched that area and it seems that the insurance industry has really put a choke hold on the salaries of acturaries, so I dont know how profitable that will be in the near and distant future.

 

 

Thanks alot Peter Hill, great insights, I thought about starting up a business, but I really dont have the savy skillset to start a tech business, etc. Other than that I am limited to my talents as I have only completed first year.

 

Lawgirl79, thank you very much, I think there is money to be made in law, however so you know the success of people going from associate to partner? I heard for every 10 associates only one will make partner. What are your plans for your law degree? Are you thinking about Bay street etc. I have also heard that recruiting has significantly decreased for US firms since the downturn in the economy. Skadden, Cravath and others that recruited at UofT and McGill, have cancelled recruiting at these schools as their need for associates has been sliced in two. Now I guess they are focusing on the Harvard's Stanford's etc.

 

Akane if you read my post, I said the most wealth without winning the lottery, but you do score big points for Ian Wong asss-kissing, nice try though.

[Guest Lawgirl79]

Hi again,

 

The US economy is on the upswing again, and my guess is that the sudden drop in recruitment after 9/11 will resume within a year or two. As for making parter--I don't have any stats for you, but keep in mind that a lot of associates leave the firms after a couple of years--there is a 5-year Bay street burn-out rate. Also, firms tend to come up with excuses to "let go" women when they become pregnant (sad but true).

 

If you have a science background, you could also work in-house in intellectual property at a biotech or pharma company. I am sure they pay very well.

 

As for me, no, I'm not headed toward Bay St--I am less than thrilled with law. I find it excrutiating. I enrolled in my second year courses this morning and one of the "better" courses I'm taking is called "The Administrative Process". I think that says it all. I'll probably be applying to Mac in the fall, but if I do decide to practice law, I would be more interested in a position with Health Canada or the CMA, etc.

 

Hope this helps!

[Guest Akane200]

Sorry, didn't read the last sentence of your post. :b I'm just procrastinating from studying for my OSCEs tmr. I wasn't wasting my ass-kissing on anyone, I just found Ian's post extremely funny given the atmosphere around this board lately. (I'll save boot licking for clerkship, not Ian, no offense intended of course ... ha ha :b )

 

However, I hope you don't discard my suggestions because of that. While 3.96 is impressive, it's only first year at U of T. It's not that difficult to get (you only need 85s to get 4.0 nowadays since they did away with 4.3s), so you should remember to keep your options open regardless. It's something that should make you think about your potential and what you REALLY want to do. You can go for many things; while money is important and a significant factor in your career choice, it should be noted that you may have to spend the rest of your life in that career.

 

I have friends in actuary, law, on Bay street, and in commerce. I also have friends in meds, dentistry, pharmacy etc. When it comes down to it, often there are a lot of other things to consider aside from making a lot of money. All these jobs eventually will make the big money you want. It just depends on how much work you want to put into it, and exactly what type of lifestyle you are willing to put up with. Are you willing to be extremely bored in order to pay the bills? Would you like to work really really long hours that lawyers put in?

 

Don't be naive and just go for something because of the dollar signs. There are a lot of other things to consider.

 

As for law: lawgirl in right. There's a lot of growth in th IP, and there's a lot of opportunity for you especiallly if you have a science background.

 

Getting partner status takes time in a firm. It may take a few more years to earn that big money you want (if ever). If you don't go into the more lucrative areas of law, you don't earn that much (ie working for the government).

[Guest cheech10]

Akane,

 

85 is 4.0 on UofT's scale, but it's 3.9 on the OMSAS scale. So a 3.96 is still very impressive (at least 1/2 your courses over 90), assuming it's by the OMSAS scale (although I do agree with it only being first year).

[Guest Akane200]

OK, at least half your courses are over 90, but that's only in first year. My friends and I went through first year a few years ago, and we could all do that too (and we were on the 4.3 scale. The way it stands now, there isn't any incentive for most people to get marks over 90, you only need an 85 to get that 4.0 for you degree). I doubt that it has gotten that much harder since we were in first year.

 

Impressive, yes and Jeffrey T's marks are very impressive, but I think there are quite a number of people who could do that too.

 

The thing is to keep in perspective that it's just first year courses and marks. It doesn't get any easier as you move to upper years. However, if you have the marks, you ALWAYS have choice. So, congrats Jeffrey T.

[Guest monkey]

jeffery: u could always do work in computers...software engineering and stuff. if u move to the states its like wild fire the way they pay you and set you up.....crazy stuff but yea, lots of $$ to be made in taht field for sure. its a simple 9-5 job and u dont really have to work overtime or late at nights like u would if u were a doc...

[Guest Liana]

I don't know about computers - with the overload of well-trained computer professionals out there, it will become increasingly hard to make the big $$$ that programmers in the 1990s were pulling down.

 

The key to making a lot of money is entering a field where you can offer something that most people can't. In medicine and dentistry, you're pretty much guaranteed to make a decent amount of money because only qualified doctors or dentists (of which there is a limited number produced) can fill these positions. However, the problem with these fields, especially in Canada, is that there are a lot of caps on the maximum amount of money you can make, so if earning potential is your ultimate goal, there'll be that glass ceiling set for you. You could always get a job as a physician in the US, where the money and hours can be better if you're good (especially if you're a specialist). However, there's also a major investment of time before you can be making the big money. Basically, if your plan was to try to get a job in the US as a surgeon (you could potentially pull back up to ~$500,000/yr, which isn't really THAT much), you'd need 2 more years of undergrad, 3-4 years of medical school, and then at least 5 years of residency; so you're looking at at least 10 years before you'll be earning anywhere near the amount of money you're eyeing.

 

The other point as well, is that, especially for dentistry, if you're not innately interested in the field you're entering, you may truly end up loathing your job. If you've got this intrinsic interest in earning potential, then that could translate to a great interest in business professions, where the bottom line plays a huge role in your day to day work.

 

That said, you could always couple science and business together. A business-savvy scientist will always be highly employable. If you did an undergrad in chemistry, microbiology, or molecular biology, and then an MBA (and perhaps an MSc, although a PhD probably isn't necessary), you'd probably have a good chance at getting into the business side of the pharmaceutical industry, which is where a lot of the money is these days.

 

By the sounds of it, you would probably be happiest in a business-focused position. However, you'll be better equipped (and therefore have higher earning potential) if you know about more than just business. My suggestion would be to double major, or do a major + minor in whatever science you enjoy most (or whatever area of science you feel has the greatest market potential in 10-20 years) plus business or economics. Get the MBA, and you'll probably have higher earning potential than if you entered some random profession.

 

The only downside to going into business is that you don't have the (pretty much) guarantee of making a relatively large amount of money; however, if you specialize in an area where a lot of business interests are vested, and then get your background in business, you shouldn't have to worry about that.

[Guest calvindog]

There are so many other jobs people just don't think about that make great money with a life to enjoy also. For example, I work as an Air traffic Controller in Vancouver working approx 40 hours/week. Last year I made $165,000. Compare that to an MBA/Lawyer/Doctor who can definately make more but not at 40 hours/week.

I am not bragging about my income, just that there are a lot of careers out there for the taking!!!!

 

PS, If you are wondering why an Air Traffic Controller is on this forum, I'm also a Grad student and enjoy reading this sire often.

 

Cheers

[Guest carly]

Very insightful points!! I'm not trying to bring anyone down and I may sound idealistic,but I think that I would be financially comfortable working at a job that I love rather than making tons of money and hating every minute of my job. I've worked many student jobs that I hated. Personally, there's nothing that feels worse than waking up in the morning knowing that you have to go to the dreaded job just to make money. Jeffery, I'm not sure if you've ever encountered this feeling, but I think it's the worst feeling in the world. Just think about what you can stand doing for the rest of your life, but cheers to you. You'll probably be making much more money than I will ever see. :-)

[Guest E Coli]

As everyone has mentioned, there are plenty of ways to make money. You are fortunate that you can attain good marks (at a hard school, no less!) in a variety of subjects.

 

Your situation is analogous to an overweight person asking which exercise is the best to lose weight. I'm sure most of us have joined a gym before and quit soon after. Sports like rowing, running, swimming or cross country skiing seem to burn the most amount of calories per unit of time. If I said maybe tennis or basketball are good ways to lose weight, you could jump all over me citing statistics how there are so many other sports that burn more calories/hr etc. The point is, if I like basketball, I'm less apt to quit and continue playing for years (remember, you may end up spending 30 or more years as a doctor, lawyer etc.) rather than going for a 5 mile run for 2 weeks and then quitting (not to mention I'll have fun the whole time looking forward to and playing b-ball rather than dreading that 5 mile run). Again, I'm sure you could burn more calories running, but wouldn't it be better to play something you enjoy? If you don't have an innate interest in something, one of 2 things will happen: you will either be miserable and continue to work, or eventually you'll quit and start something else.

 

I went into medicine for the money and it was a mistake because I don't have an innate interest in the field. The minute I get to the hospital/clinic all I think about are ways to leave early. If you get into medical school you will see it firsthand. The fact that you only care about money is a thought shared by many. Just pick a career you like the best and the money should come - remember, there are no guarantees in life. Good luck!

[Guest risky business]

There have been some good points brought up in this discussion.. but there is one that has not been raised yet- job security.

 

while professional careers like meds/law/dents may not pay as much as business, they all have almost 100% job security. There will always be demand for these professions.

 

The recent economic downturn has seen millions of layoffs (look at Nortel). I know of many who were making millions in silicon valley during the .COM hype and are now bankrupt.

 

I guess the bottom line is, how much are you willing to risk. High risk jobs like hi-tech will make you lots of money, but you'll always be working in fear of losing your job. To us young ppl, this may not seem like a big deal. But when your 40 and have a mortgage and kids to pay for, job security is a big deal, no matter how many $$ you pull in.

 

just my thoughts...