Guest dashock Posted June 12, 2002 Report Share Posted June 12, 2002 Hi all, I have a big question. How would I go about getting an academic reference letter when, in 3 years in university, I have merely SPOKEN to 2 or 3 profs EVER. They wouldn't even remember me. Should I start kissing some serious rear this, my final year? What do I do???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hmsdread Posted June 13, 2002 Report Share Posted June 13, 2002 Well, you could consider volunteering in someone's lab. Even if you only pickup a dishwashing position, it will let the prof get to know you so that he/she can write you a better letter. You may even be introduced to some other faculty members, who could become other sources for letters. The best advice for letters is to pick someone who knows you well, regardless of their academic standing. There are no restrictions about who has to write your letters (at least for Ontario schools), so a letter from someone you've volunteered for or an old boss that knows you well may be a better option than having a prof who barely knows you write you a letter. Just keep that in mind if you're applying to Ontario med schools. hmsdread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carolyn Posted June 13, 2002 Report Share Posted June 13, 2002 I had an old prof from business school, my martial arts sensei and a family friend who had acted as a mentor write my reference letters. I had a similar problem to you in that I had not become known by any of my profs at UofT and didn't feel that any of the doctors I'd volunteered with knew me as well as the others. Anyways, I guess it didn't make a big difference, as I got in. I also believe it is more important to get a reference letter from someone who knows you well and can speak to your abilities in a variety of areas. take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mying Posted June 13, 2002 Report Share Posted June 13, 2002 What about an academic counsellor? It is suggested that you get the three different types of letters: one from a doctor, one from a volunteer supervisor, one from someone who knows you academically, but you don't *have to*, as far as I can recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bruno11 Posted June 13, 2002 Report Share Posted June 13, 2002 dashock, towards the end of my undergrad i was in a similar situation to yourself. What I was able to do was take a course called a directed studies. Basically this was a course you set up for yourself with the prof of your choice (if they were willing ). The prof then supervised the research project you devised.. The prof I chose was really great and gave me access to his lab where I was able to latch on to a grad student and work with them. The course also required that I meet with the prof once a week to discuss my progress and through this he was able to get to know me very well. Then in the second half of that year i took a course that the same prof taught. Since he already knew me from the research I had done under him, he was able to continue to notice my academic abilities(or lack of ). I guess you just have to find a way to get to know a prof, whether it be through volunteering in a lab or taking a course where the student to instructor ratio is low. I was never a big fan of "kissing ass" and i don't really think it is neccesary. Just get a foot in the door somehow and it will fall into place from there. hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest horseUBCMed1soon Posted June 13, 2002 Report Share Posted June 13, 2002 I totally agree with Bruno11. I did the exact same thing as him/her. Be aware that a lot of professors have a certain amount of disdain for premed students when they know they are trying to use them. They didn't get their PhDs for looking pretty - they'll probably figure out pretty quickly why you're their best friend! Some professors are even annoyed when they have graduate students that are only using their lab as a stepping stone to Med School. I know one in particular who is very vocal about this... Doing a directed studies, however, is totally fair game as you're able to put the work in for them in return for their letter (Although don't expect it, necessarily. They may refuse you in the end). When you do it though, make sure you put your effort into working hard and getting results, not kissing ass. To avoid working your ass off for nothing, try to get information on whether this prof does write letters. You may also want to find out if he has ever written a bad letter (it happens!) If it comes to it, you may have to talk to the prof directly, mentioning your goals (may be tough). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest therealcrackers Posted June 13, 2002 Report Share Posted June 13, 2002 I worked as a graduate student for several years at U of T, and in the course of TA'ing I got several students who asked me for a reference letter as well. If you have a TA that you have a good rapport with, they can give a decent assessment of your industriousness, your skill in writing, but perhaps most important, how you deal with other people. It was weird, tho; I applied to meds with a reference letter from the course coordinator (as well as a neighbour and my supervisor), and one of my students applied with a letter from the course coordinator and from ME! Horse is right, tho; make sure the prof will write a letter if you go that route, but also you owe it to yourself to do more than go through the motions. You can learn a lot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DCR Posted June 13, 2002 Report Share Posted June 13, 2002 I have gotten to know my profs pretty well by taking full advantage of their office hours. Whenever we have an assignment, I go to them with my ideas or questions and usually end up having interesting conversations with them. I feel it really helps my grades as well through getting clear direction about what the prof is looking for as well as constructive criticism. One of my tutorial leaders asked me for a reference for a promotion and another prof offered to help me in anyway in the future, so it has worked out well in that I've met really interesting people and will also have solid references. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted June 13, 2002 Report Share Posted June 13, 2002 Watch out for relying too heavily on lab surpervisors!! Most of them will write great reference letters for their students (mine included) but I have heard stories about profs not writing great reference letters in the hopes that the applicant might stay to do a grad degree. Also, some profs, possibly from having too many students try and squeak out a few extra marks, have fairly negative attitudes towards premeds. I don't think this is common, but it's something to be aware of when asking for references! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BC guy Posted June 13, 2002 Report Share Posted June 13, 2002 I did it this way: one from the places I volunteered at, one from a prof, and the other one from my research lab. For the schools that seemed to emphasize writing skills I substituted the Math prof with one who taught me English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gg Posted June 14, 2002 Report Share Posted June 14, 2002 HTML Comments are not allowed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest missing Manitoba Posted June 14, 2002 Report Share Posted June 14, 2002 I think the references you get might be looked on differently by different schools. Saskatchewan gives you 3 references forms, one of which must be filled in by an academic reference (it's a different colour); however, the academic reference can come from a high school teacher/principal. Aside from using my high school history teacher/vice principal as a reference for Saskatchewan, I didn't include ANY academic references because I honestly didn't feel that any of my profs knew me well enough to comment on the majority of the traits being assessed. Ultimately, this might have hurt me at Queen's (who knows?), but, at my Manitoba interview, my interviewers actually commented on how strongly I had been recommended. (My references were my childhood piano teacher, with whom I am still close, my family doctor, and my volunteer coordinator.) A friend of mine was also accepted to the U of M without an academic reference. (Again, the interviewers commented on her VERY positive references.) The U of A, which only requires 2 references, lists profs as potential references but also includes other people, such as volunteer coordinators. If you really don't feel that your professors know you well enough to comment on your potential as a physician and that you don't have sufficient time to wow/get to know any of them, consider whether you really want to include any of them as references at all. (Again, I don't know how all the schools look at different references -- some might look down on not including a prof, while others might specifically require one.) Did anyone else receive an acceptance without a reference from a prof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted June 15, 2002 Report Share Posted June 15, 2002 I think volunteering in a prof's lab, or getting involved in some research, either through a paying position (eg. NSERC scholarship, Student Summer works, etc) or via an upper-level directed studies project is a good way to get some one on one time with a prof. Getting that reference letter from a prof can otherwise be really tough if you don't get involved outside of class. Ian UBC, Med 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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