Dking168 Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 So essentially, the situation I have is the same dilemma as the person in this thread: http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57967 However, in stories that differ: I just finished Brock and I have finished my BSc. (3yrs) in Health Sci but my grades are an absolute joke and I know I have no shot at getting into medicine. The only schools I have a shot at now are schools that take a weighted GPA (ones that look at your latest and/or best years). I'm pretty much done every single pre-med prerequisite that is required except for organic chem which means whatever school I go to, I no longer have to re-take them. My plan is to take the organic chem it in the summer at whatever school I want to get/go in. I have applied to 3 schools, all towards a different degree if medicine doesn't work out. My dream job would be to work in Health Administration because being a doctor and helping people is good and everything, but that only heals the surface. Our current health care system has many flaws and it is the underlying issue which is what I want to help in changing. In these kinds of position, having a MD gives you much more voice than someone who just has a business degree and just cares about numbers and doesn't consider the health professionals it affects and etc. This is the main reason I'm going for medicine in the first place which is why I applied to UTSG Health Care Ethics/Global Health Double Major. I feel that this program would give me the edge I would need later on in life if I were to go down this path. However, the main dilemma I have is that from the horror stories, UTSG is ridiculously intense compared to most schools; BUT people who mention these things are all people who have done first year courses like Biol, Chem and etc. I'm assuming many of my intro courses that I took from Brock would be able to be transferred over (fingers crossed) which means I would only be taking the higher level courses which are no longer try to weed out students. Or is it? I want to know people's opinion on whether I should follow through with this or decide on another school. I also applied to Waterloo aviation because being a pilot is a profession I'm considering if medicine doesn't work out because aviation is something that will be around for a while since it's the only way to get places quickly for the next foreseeable future. The thing that deters me from doing this instead is the expense required for the program. I already did an undergraduate, this program adds another 70k to it which means that I must consider this option carefully. I also applied to UWO Nutritional Sciences because being a Dietitian is something I could see myself enjoying doing, however I would like some people's opinion on how Orgo and Nutritional courses are graded. From my understanding of reading from the forums, UWO has a high standard but the professors aren't required to maintain a C-C+ average (like at UofT) causing bell curves to students everywhere. I would appreciate it if someone from the forums would enlighten me on how UWO is; what to look out for, do professors bell-curve or inflate the marks? Is it a better decision than UTSG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritas et Utilitas Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 I know it may not be a very helpful reply but I ll give it a shot. Ok from your post I've just read that you would love to: - Work in the Health Administration and improve Canadian healthcare (I agree with the idea of influencing the system) - Be a pilot - Be a dietitian First of all it is important to select a priority. It seems to me that you are not sure. If you want to be a pilot - stick with it and pursue it. You want to be a dietitian? That contradicts with your first career path. So I say, before making a choice where to go, decide what exactly is your passion. Secondly. Think about the reason your grades were not good at Brock? Because if you go to UofT it will be harder. No doubt about that. I have known people who did well at UofT, however they worked really hard. So, if you think that you want make any mistakes that you made before - go in accordance to the career path you decide to follow. + If you dont do as well as you want - you are loosing $$$. Thirdly. I am a UWO student. There is no bell-curving at UWO. However depending on the course, sometimes professors change the final (make it easier or harder), depending on the result of the midterm. First year courses have a requirement that class average must no exceed 78-79%. Not sure about upper year courses. Is it better decision than UTSG? Well again, that depends on the path you choose. I hope my rambling helped :ss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpatient Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Go to york, do kinesology, destroy the 2nd degree, get in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 ^ +1 ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mm88 Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 My dream job would be to work in Health Administration because being a doctor and helping people is good and everything, but that only heals the surface. Our current health care system has many flaws and it is the underlying issue which is what I want to help in changing. In these kinds of position, having a MD gives you much more voice than someone who just has a business degree and just cares about numbers and doesn't consider the health professionals it affects and etc. This is the main reason I'm going for medicine in the first place which is why I applied to UTSG Health Care Ethics/Global Health Double Major. Talk to muse, he is passionate about this topic. (Heads up, he will tell you - doctors have no voice.) Not really sure why you would want to be a pilot when your other interests are in healthcare. I think you should probably try out aviation through a flying club or something before you dive in head first. It's not for everyone, and certainly not everyone has the aptitude for it. Pay and work hours are also pretty crappy after you graduate for a great number of years. To echo what others have said - if there is something you're passionate about, you should stick with that one thing. It's not good to put all your eggs in one basket but its also a terrible idea to spread yourself so thin. Good luck with whatever you choose/get into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamIDP Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Go to york, do kinesology, destroy the 2nd degree, get in... Lol, I go to york and I have still yet to meet someone that got into medical school in the Kine program. I know program doesn't matter in Ontario, but outside Ontario, your degree matters to many schools. If you notice, in recent years schools are requiring students to obtain their degree in order to apply... In my opinion, Bsc would be best choice if you plan to pursue a career in the medical field as the stuff you learn in most BsC programs are covered in medical school (genetics, cell bio, biochemistry). Kine may be more interesting, but if you dont get a high gpa or screw up, going to American medical schools will be harder. Please correct me if i'm wrong/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamIDP Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 My dream job would be to work in Health Administration because being a doctor and helping people is good and everything, but that only heals the surface. Our current health care system has many flaws and it is the underlying issue which is what I want to help in changing. In these kinds of position, having a MD gives you much more voice than someone who just has a business degree and just cares about numbers and doesn't consider the health professionals it affects and etc. Check your facts. Money = power. Last time I checked, doctors make alot but business man and entrepeurs make alot more. Tbh, most premeds are just hardworking and don't use common sense in real life situations. For example, 90% of premeds know that they want to go to medical school partially for the money. HOWEVER, it takes 4 years undergrad +4 years medical school + 2+ years residenancy....so you lose 10 years of your life and 10 years of opportunity to make money.... To make matters worse, Doctors don't make as much as most premeds think. The AVERAGE specilist makes $170k in canada... (Without paying tax)....and the Tax incomes in Canada are 40%+ if your making $120k+/ year. So that means the avaerage specialist is making just over $100k net profit. There is no logic in going into medicine if your in it for the money. Is all i'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blizzah Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Check your facts. Money = power. Last time I checked, doctors make alot but SOMEbusiness man and entrepeurs make alot more. ftfy. Also, you might want to look up what marginal tax rates are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylamonkey Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Not really sure why you would want to be a pilot when your other interests are in healthcare. I think you should probably try out aviation through a flying club or something before you dive in head first. It's not for everyone, and certainly not everyone has the aptitude for it. Pay and work hours are also pretty crappy after you graduate for a great number of years. Working as a pilot right now is almost as much of a crapshoot as getting into medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mm88 Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Working as a pilot right now is almost as much of a crapshoot as getting into medicine. Yea, unless you want to join the military! ;)They always need (partially) trained pilots. People who have their commercial license get an automatic pass on their PFT these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zainy1993 Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 I can give you some advice in organic chemistry since I just took it last semester. I would recommend you take orgo chem in the first semester, (winter) so you won't have to deal with browning, because he only teaches orgo chem in second semester. Ive tried some of his practice tests before my exam, and they were extremely difficult, nothing like what we did in class, whereas if you take orgo in first semester you'll probably get easier profs, but don't get the impression that its a bird course in first semester. The midterms averages were quite high, 69% for the first one and 67% for the second, and I'm guessing the lab average was around 68-70%. The exam was killer though. I'm pretty sure it was in the fifty's range, which dropped the course average to a 64 I believe. The midterms were pretty straight-forward, just do enough past tests and learn the material from the textbook and you should be good. For the exam do every single past paper you can and learn the material inside out. From what I've heard most people dropped on average 8-12% after the exam. If you really want to be safe you can go to the TLS sessions for orgo chem. I think they do a pretty good job, but considering you've taken a lot of upper year courses i doubt you would need TLS. Anyway good luck, pm me if you have any more questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamIDP Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 ftfy. Also, you might want to look up what marginal tax rates are. You said "Some business man and entrepreneurs make more", that SOME is in VERY large quantities. Do you honostly think that 90% of the millionaires in this country are doctors? Less than 5% of them are millionaires. Next time you walk in a rich neighbourhood where homes are $1.5mill+, stop and wonder who are the people who live in these homes? It's mainly rich business man, entrepreneurs, CEO's and other occupations. Face it, most doctors make alot (still not as much as other careers) but when it comes to managing their money, they are clueless and don't know anything about investing money. Also, they start earning very late, usually in their early 30's. In Canada, there are many factors that restrict how much doctors make in this country. However, CA's, programmers, CEOs, engineers, lawyers, pilots and many other careers make alot more than the average doctors. The only reason many people don't want to go into these careers is because they are not secure positions and not as prestigious. Regardless, i'm just saying don't go into medicine just for the money. There are 100's of careers that can make you more money in shorter period of time and with less effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dking168 Posted January 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Does anyone know much about the Health Care Ethics program from UofT? I just want to get an opinion on that program? Is it interesting/hard/easy? Like I said before, most of my first year pre-reqs are all completed so if I were to transfer to do my second degree, I would be doing mostly higher level classes. I hear people complain about UofT's hard grading, but does that apply to upper year classes as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zainy1993 Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Yes, the marking is still hard for upper year courses from what I've heard. People usually say it gets easier because they learn from their mistakes in first year and figure out how to study more efficiently, it not the courses itself that become easier. Also, people start taking courses they actually like instead of weeder courses like calc in first year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekylo Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 It's exciting to see premeds who also have an interest in public policy . Healthcare ethics is really interesting and I've taken a course from the program before. However, you should be aware that this program is more philosophically orientated that policy orientated. A vast majority of the courses are from the Philosophy department and the style of writing, as well as the way issues are discussed, can be very different from the way healthcare issues are usually approached. If you live close, my advice would be to go to the UofT bookstore and take a quick read of the reading package for the courses in the program. It is possible to do well in these courses but you need to be able to write philosophy type essays well. Also, 90+ is probably difficult. The program is not generally known to be 'easy'. I've also taken a number of electives from the Health Studies program. In my opinion, this program resembles the traditional 'health policy' program more closely. You learn the politics of the health care system, statistics, research methods, etc. Be aware that the faculty does have a political slant towards a public health care system and towards the social determinants of health (as opposed to biomedical, behavioural, etc). Personally, the opinions of the professors really resonated with me but a few students had issues with this. In terms of marking, I found it very fair. If you pay attention in class and put effort into your work, you should be able to get a A+. Like any other writing based courses/program, there is an element of subjectiviity .. but the writing is more like 'everyday language' than philisophy and I personally found it easier. I think a number of the professors also come from the MPH program .. if you're interested in public policy, they give you good insights to the admissions process. Not sure what else to write but if you have any specific questions, feel free to ask me. Both programs are very interesting! I know a number of people in both programs and a bunch of people in the HSSU (health studies student union) With regards to upper year v.s. first/second year course marking.. Class averages are typically in the B+ range as opposed to the 60-70 range in the larger introductory courses. But, bare in mind this is just as much as a result of the students becoming better at studying as the courses themselves. Courses also tend to get smaller and there are more seminar based courses .. which is a very different environment. Additionally, at the 3rd/4th year level, there is usually more freedom in course selection so people tend to be studying what they genuinely enjoy. Another thing to consider is that many of these courses are restricted to programs which have grade requirements .. so the student populace is also already one that has mastered studying, to some degree at least. GL deciding! Genrally speaking, I would say it is very possible to do well at UofT. There are instances where a few evaluations might be unfair, but, all in all, if you work hard and are consistent, they don't affect you in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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