Ian, are you still here? Is Anyone Around?

[Guest mbomb]

Hi there, I have question to ask, but I'm not sure if there's anyone here to answer. Let me know and I'll post my question. Thanks.

[Guest bibs74]

Post away....I'm sure there are more than a few of us lurking.

 

Cheers.

[Guest Matt]

Thanks for the quick response. Ok, here's my situation.

I'm 25 yrs. old and one year removed from school. I did a 5 year undergrad in Biology and Economics. The overall undergrad average was very poor (not good enough for Mac), since in my first three years I averaged about a 65%. My last two years averaged in the low 80's. Last summer I wrote the mcat (didn't have too much time to study though). I got vr-8, phy-10, and Bio-7. I really was not prepared so I'm certain that I can do much better. I took the princeton review, but I never really did anything extra (they told

me all I needed was about 9 hrs/week). I haven't had very much time so far this summer and I'm not too confident that I could score significantly higher in the verbal section, not to mention the sciences, so I plan to write next April and prepare throughout the next year by completing as many mcats and practice questions as possible in my spare time. I know I can also significantly improve my verbal reasoning in this time period.

 

I know that I will definitely have to improve my mcat scores if I wish to apply to medicine, but I've recently discovered that although I averaged 80% in each of my last two years, my gpa for those years is only 3.54(my final year was the higher average, but the lower gpa). This is shy of the Queen's cutoff (3.57). I had a few tricky courses in Econ (Stats, etc.) and ended up getting some 70's which really killed me on the omsas scale.

 

I have had some pretty extensive exposure to the healthcare industry with 5 yrs of work so I know that medicine is for me. I am just so discouraged right now, because I am really not prepared to go back to school this year. I really need to work and make some money. It's an extremely frustrating situation and I'm feeling very regretful because I just turned 25 and feel like I've wasted alot of time. I also feel like I'll be so old (29+) by the time I get in and not really fit in. I don't really know what I should do. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Guest Random]

Hi there,

 

A dude I know got into meds at 27 after blowing most of his undergraduate years away.

 

He just got determined and did well in his 5th and 6th years, wrote the MCAT 3 times and now he's in.

 

It's never too late if you want it man.

 

Then again, everyone's situation is unique.

 

Best of luck.

[Guest MEDCOMPSCI]

Well, I don't want to play devil's advocate here, but I think that we may need a little bit of extra information.

 

a) What is your cumlative GPA for all of your years of undergrad? Did you always take 5 courses a year?

 

If your cumlative GPA adds up to less than 3.0 on a 4.0 scale, then you may be out of luck. UFT/Queens/Western are all scratches since you don't have more than 3.54 or 3.60 GPAs. Ottawa is out too since they need 3.8+ GPAs. Your only real chance in Ontario is Mac. but you need at least a 3.0.

 

I would advise you to take an extra year of school and get a 3.0 to give yourself a shot at Mac. Doing grad school would normally help, but sicne you are below 3.0 I think that most schools won't consider your grad work.

 

You have extensive life experince and you seem to fit the Mac profile (older, more mature student, etc.). Try to get a 3.0 GPA and I am prety sure that Mac will interview you. Best of luck!

[Guest kel19]

hi medcompsci or anybody else!,

 

I've got a question for you all...does mac only require a 3.0 gpa??? are there any other schools that i can apply to??? my gpa is only 3.2-3.3 (A's and B's but some c's too) but i'd still like to apply someday...any advice??? i will be getting a degree in a health care field and i have quite a bit of work experience and volunteer experience in the health related field. i do know that med is what i'd love to do since i've worked with so many different people in different areas...it's just my gpa that's holding me back.

 

thanks

[Guest gucio93]

Hi Kel19

Yes, Mac will consider your application as long as your GPA is 3.0 or over. The autobiographical sketch consisting of 15 questions is what they look for in addition to your GPA when they decide whether or not to invite you for an interview. If you write a GREAT sketch, you may get an interview even with a 3.1-3.2. A word of advice though - become really familiar with the concepts of problem based learning, work in small groups, self-directed learning, etc. If you don't have a good grasp of these concepts and you are unable to show in your submission that you would fit in with Mac's philosophy, you will most likely be out of luck for an interview. Hope this helps. Cheers!

[Guest MEDCOMPSCI]

Hey,

 

Mac does indeed have a 3.0 cutoff for applications. However, Mac grades your GPA for 50% and your sketch (ie - 15 questions) for the remaining 50%. THat being said, a 3.0 would technically be a 0/50, so the higest you can place would be 50/100. However, some people claim that if you have a really solid sketch (I would assume top 5% or so), they will interview you regardless of your GPA rank (as long as you meet that 3.0 limit).

[Guest bibs74]

This is what I would do: Sign up for any undergraduate program and take some courses that you would find interesting and could realistically get all A's or A+'s. This is something I did when I did an extra year of undergrad (I took a few math courses (I do well in math), some religious studies courses, and some classical studies courses). Make sure you take 5 courses a semester. Apply this Fall to Mac because it seems that this is the only school that you are presently eligible for and keep your fingers crossed. Make sure you spend a disgusting amount of time on the Mac essay, maybe even get a professional service to proof read it. If you are rejected from Mac, write your MCAT next August and and study really hard for the verbal reasoning section. If you can score over 10 on the Verbal Section and a Q or higher on the Written, you should be able to get interviews at Queens, Western, maybe even Ottawa (if your last 3 years, using their scaling method, work out high enough - not all years weighed equally), and maybe Mac.

 

Best of luck, don't be too discouraged. You are not old. Consider the fact that if you are accepted 2 years from now you will be 27. You will graduate from medical school around the age of 30. Had you done 3 years undergrad and was accepted right away to medical school, you would have graduated at the age of 25. That's only a 5 year difference. Five years in the course of 30 year career is nothing. Remember don't sweat the petty things (and don't pet the sweaty things).

 

Cheers.

[Guest Ian Wong]

I think the other moderators have really given some great advice, but I thought I'd still throw in my quick 2 cents.

 

UBC is not a school known for selecting older, more mature applicants (although we do seem to be developing a reputation for accepting females, but that's another story...) and yet in my med class of 120, I think there's probably a good 25-30 students who are in the age range of 25-30 years old.

 

The way I think you have to look at it, is that if you are not happy in your current field of work because you believe that becoming a doctor will be more satisfying, and you have enough healthcare experience to be making this decision in an informed manner, than in five years, you will:

 

1) Still be in your current career, or another one which is not completely satisfactory.

 

2) Be in, or perhaps even finished medical school.

 

Either way, at some point in the near future, you will still be 30 years old, so why not be 30 years old doing what you want to do.

 

However, this viewpoint has to be tempered with some realism. Your previous GPA is currently disqualifying you from applying to the majority of Ontario schools, and just because McMaster will consider applicants with as low as a 3.0 average, doesn't make that an ideal application GPA.

 

I think Bibi74 is right in that you need to prove to the admissions committees that you can handle the academic workload of medical school, and that means taking some courses, and getting extremely high marks in them. Furthermore, this won't be enough. You will need to prove to the medical school that you will be a strong asset to the student body, enough so to off-set your less-strong GPA.

 

For a school such as McMaster, this means proving through previous experiences that you would excell in a PBL curriculum that makes extremely heavy use of small-group teaching. You also need to prove that you have the maturity, and academic stamina and discipline to complete what is typically a four-year medical education in three years.

 

I don't pretend to have all the answers, and with medical admissions, there is never a guarantee that even if you work as hard as possible, that you will be assured a medical school seat. However, you need to decide for yourself how important you value the chance to become a doctor, and if that's where your heart is, I think you need to go for it, and I wish you the best of luck! Please let us know how things are going.

 

Ian

UBC, Med 3

[Guest Matt]

Ian, thanks for taking the time to answer my post. I never expected that everyone else would be so helpful. I just want to get a little more input from you if you don't mind.

 

As I wrote before, my gpa is just shy of the Queen's cutoff. I spoke with the admissions officer and she told that once an applicant makes the minimum standards set forth, grades and mcat scores are no longer an issue. In other words, if I can boost my gpa with an additional undergraduate year and manage the required mcat score, then I will be considered as equal to the other applicants and most assuredly be interviewed. At that point whether or not I gained acceptance would be dependent on my interview and personal information form + references.

 

 

Do you have any new/addtional advice given this new information? It seems to paint a brighter picture, but I'm still a little concerned about whether or not what she said is actually 100% true. What do you think?

[Guest Kirsteen Can MBA]

Hi Matt,

 

Being in a similar situation to yourself (mature applicant, blow-out of an initial undergrad experience) I've investigated similar avenues and have a few wee bits to add.

 

Regarding Queen's selection process, what the admissions officer had to say to you sounds accurate. They choose to evaluate your entire undergraduate record or your best two, full years, whichever is higher, but you must meet their MCAT requirements, which (this year) were 10-VR, 9-PS, 9-BS, totaling a minimum of 30, and Q on the WS. If you do not meet their MCAT requirements then you are automatically released from further consideration. A caveat: these MCAT cut-offs change annually, and Queen's purportedly do not determine the cut-offs until all applications have been received and they have the opportunity to assess the level of MCAT achievement of all applicants. (When I met with the admissions officer last year she noted that they do this in order to decrease the overwhelming size of the applicant pool to one that is much more manageable.)

 

Queen's will also look at your application a little differently if you have a graduate degree. Do you happen to have one? This may be an option that you may wish to pursue further if you fancy a course of graduate study, as it will alter the way a few other schools will look at you (including UT).

 

Good luck,

Kirsteen

[Guest MEDCOMPSCI]

Look people, stop spreading misinformation. Queen's did NOT have a Q cut-off for the WS portion of the MCAT. Not even Western had a Q cut-off this year.

 

Even an O was good enough to get an interview at Queens.

[Guest Kirsteen Can MBA]

Hi MedCompSci,

 

Pardon my inaccuracy--perhaps due to some jetlag and the early hour of my response, which lead to the presence of some cobwebs. Cross-referencing with another posting here, it states that the WS cutoff for Queen's is N. No matter, all Queen's MCAT scores remain variables for the application pool this year.

 

Let's keep the goodwill flowing.

 

Kirsteen

[Guest JSS02]

About the Mac GPA weighting: They give you a score out of 8. The GPA is counted out of 4 (using your OMSAS GPA), and your autobiographical sketch is counted out of 4. So a 3.0 would not be 0/50 but rather 37.5/50... As you can see, using this formula there is not much variation in GPA's (3.0-4.0), but a lot more in the sketch (0.0-4.0), that's why people with a lower average can still get accepted if their sketch is considered stellar, and they have a great interview. On the flip side though, I guess this means that there's a lot more subjectivity involved, and it could also depend on who reads your essay. I know someone that applied and got a 95th percentile on his essay but was getting rejected after the interview. The next year, even though the questions were identical, submitting the same essay wasn't good enough to get another interview, even though his marks were even higher...

[Guest Ian Wong]

Hi there,

 

I realise that this thread has started to diverge a little bit, and I'm going to push it even further off track with my next request, but first I want to thank all parties for keeping things civil and friendly; it makes a world of difference.

 

My question is regarding the GPA and MCAT cut-offs for each Ontario med school. Are these pre-determined before each application cycle (would make a lot of sense if they were, but then a lot of things in life don't make sense), or are they determined once the med school has had a chance to scan all the applicant profiles, and then can make an arbitrary cut-off to weed out all applicants in the bottom XYZ percentile of the applicant pool?

 

In either event, is there a consistent place where the cut-offs for each year can be found, or is that another one of the "black box" factors of admissions there, that you won't figure out whether you have made the cut-off until you receive either an outright rejection letter, or a request for interviews?

 

I've found the following site before, which was put together by admin at Brock University, but obviously, the cut-off data here isn't applicable to the current year applying.

 

www.brocku.ca/experienceplus/medplus/cms.html

 

Ian

UBC, Med 3

[Guest MEDCOMPSCI]

Hey,

 

Yes life would be grand if we could have pre-set cut-offs and also get our MCAT scores back in Oct. before we had to apply. But, as we have all learned, life is a business.

 

I know that some schools have pre-set cut offs. For example, UofT always needs a 8/8/8 MCAT and a (supposed) 3.60 GPA, although it is probably closer to 3.80 or so.

 

Ottawa's cut-off is based on the applicant pool, as is Queen;s (they use the median).

 

Western changed the MCAT's up this year, but their GPA requirement has remanined the same for each year (3.60).

 

Mac has the 3.0 cut-off.

 

So, in short, Ottawa and Queens have the variable cut-off GPA's, so if you are on the bubble (ie a 3.83 for Ottawa or a 3.52 for QUeens) keep applying, you never know!

[Guest Kirsteen Can MBA]

Hi,

 

Although Queen's do not post their MCAT nor GPA cut-offs prior to the application submission deadline, you can learn the cut-offs prior to the long wait for a written response. This past year, the Queen's admissions office was quite forthcoming regarding their info, and seem to be happy to share it when it is determined via telephone.

 

Kirsteen

[Guest Katie]

Kirsteen, you have a beautiful writing style and are always so helpful. You should be a moderator! I'm glad you're posting again!

[Guest Kirsteen Can MBA]

Hi Katie,

 

Thanks for that, but it appears that there are quite a few folk within our wee community here who regularly exercise their excellently honed Writing Sample skills!

 

Kirsteen

[Guest melissa]

why is the cut-off for Toronto usually a 3.8 medcompsci?

where did you get that information from?

[Guest MEDCOMPSCI]

I got the 3.80 from an e-mail I sent to the admissions office, which said that realistically a 3.80 is needed to remain competative for an interview for non-graduate students.

 

Also, since UofT's avg. gpa was 3.84, a 3.80 cut-off seems about right considering that some graduate studetns are admitted with much lower marks.