Guest mn Posted August 15, 2001 Report Share Posted August 15, 2001 Hello, I am thinking about a career change into medicine, and I'd like to hear from others who have done the same thing, or are planning to. I'll be in my mid-30s when I can apply, since I'm currently at home parenting my little tots, and will be for a few more years. As any other parent knows, having a child changes your perspective on work and what life's all about in ways that you can't imagine beforehand. I am thinking about family practice, with the possibility of working part-time so my kids remember what I look like. Any other premed, med students, or MDs out there who are parents? Of the female variety? How do you manage all the time demands of parenting and med school/residency/practice? Students or MDs who may someday become parents: what do you think? I'd love to hear from women and men on this topic. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted August 16, 2001 Report Share Posted August 16, 2001 Hello, I wish I could give you some more insight. But as a guy with no kids, I'm in quite a different situation. My classmates with children seem to do okay; none of them are struggling in their coursework. I think that having an Honours/Pass/Fail or Pass/Fail grading system can really be of benefit (and all English-speaking med schools use one or the other, with the possible exception of U of Saskatchewan). Other than that, I think they just schedule everything, sleep a little less, and rely heavily on their spouses for parenting and emotional support. There's a web-site that you might want to visit: www.mommd.com It was set up about a year ago, and serves as a site for med student parents to meet and talk. I wish I could contribute more, but this is really out of my expertise. Ian UBC, Med 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mn Posted August 16, 2001 Report Share Posted August 16, 2001 Thanks, Ian. I've been following the mommd site for a while now, it's generally helpful although it's overwhelmingly American. I know some med schools use the pass/fail or honours/pass/fail system, but didn't know which ones. I'll likely be applying to some Ontario schools, so it's good to know that they use that system. Here's another slant on my question of being a doctor and living a balanced life: for those of you who don't have kids (probably the vast majority), was having a balanced lifestyle (i.e. time for family, individual pursuits, sleep once in a while) an issue for you when you chose to be a doctor? What is the time crunch really like when you're in med school? residency? Does it depend on your specialty? What kind of on-call demands are placed on you? Do residents do 24-hr. call, or has that requirement faded away? I think it's insane to subject residents to that kind of fatigue, where they may make mistakes, endanger the health of patients, and probably not remember much of what they're supposed to be learning. Thanks for sharing your experiences about balancing your time pressures. Any hints for good time management while in med school/residency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest llyz Posted August 16, 2001 Report Share Posted August 16, 2001 mn, I am a 30 year old female pre-med student. I'm currently on the waiting list for one of the med schools although I don't think it's going to happen for me this year. We are getting a little close to the start of the school year. I'll probably have to wait for next year. I'm approaching my med school aspirations from a slightly different angle than you are as I have already taken and passed the dreaded MCAT. My score was OK, could've been better. I found working full-time and going back to school to raise my GPA and study for the MCAT was really difficult.(REALLY DIFFICULT!!!) I can't imagine having the responsibility of kids on top of that. Some of the responsibilities associated with many, let's say older applicants, make sitting down at the end of an already long day to study till the wee hours difficult to say the least. You really have to be very disciplined. It is not my intention to scare you because more so than it has been hard, it has been even more rewarding in unforeseen ways. Regardless of whether I actually get an offer to med school this fall or not my husband and I are considering starting a family and so I am also interested in the answers to many of the issues you have raised. I'm also looking to increase my GPA again this year. I'd like to do more volunteer work this year as well. I'm not having a lot of success finding meaningful volunteer opportunities that I can fit into my work/school, etc schedules. Do you have any suggestions? I was glad to hear from another 30 female looking at some of the same concerns I'm facing. I don't get the feeling that there are a lot of us around. Bye for Now llyz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted August 16, 2001 Report Share Posted August 16, 2001 Hey there ladies, Add me to your demographic, minus the kids and minus the husbands. However, two Siamese laddies certainly keep things lively around here given their penchant for devouring the orchids that I am so dearly trying to keep from the valley of death. Yep, it's certainly a different perspective, approaching medical school after being out in the workforce. Like you llyz, I've been working full-time throughout my undergrad and graduate schooling. Suffice to say, it's been a productive time! Certainly, medical school shall be a refreshing change, eh? That is, finally having the opportunity to concentrate on school without the large employment commitments. You were asking about "meaningful" volunteering opportunities. Do you have anything in particular in mind? Also, what city are you in? A number of years back when I was looking to volunteer, I did a careful search of volunteering positions in and around Toronto (Toronto.com back then was a good resource). Having found traditional hospital volunteering (candystriping) a little monotonous, I came up with a short list of three or so organizations and roles which piqued my interest. After a little more investigation I discovered that one of these opportunities sounded just fantastic--the opportunity to train to be a volunteer sexual and reproductive health counselor within an organization that is partnered with a local hospital. A formal application, interview and training sessions that last over three months was involved. Also, the positions were apparently in quite high demand, so I wasn't accepted to the program for about a year after the submission of the application (they only recruit twice per year). However, this volunteering experience, for the past two and a half years, has been incredible. We see a vast array of clients with a large array of sexual and reproductive health concerns and problems. Working alongside our doctors, nurses and medical students, we provide an integral service to each client by way of non-judgemental counseling on any given sexual and reproductive health concern. I don't know if this is up your alley, but if so, zip a wee note over and I can pass the details on. Best of luck with your waitlist--for which school is it, if I may ask? It ain't over until it's over. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gucio93 Posted August 16, 2001 Report Share Posted August 16, 2001 Hi Mn I just want to say that if you're sure this is what you want to do and most importantly if you have your husbands total support behind you - go for it. I'm stressing the latter part, because if your husband is not supportive, involved in parenting and houskeeping, you may have a tough time, and I don't think ruining a good marriage/family life is worth becoming a doctor. On the other hand, if you do have the support and the drive - anything is possible - even going to med school and having children. To back this up - here's a bit of my personal story. I got married and had my son when I was 18 (I know, my parents just about killed me). I went through 4 years of nursing school while raising a baby - and I studied nights and I did clinical rotation (ofcourse I didn't have to do call ). I then got a full time job and continued to have family responsibility (biger kid, bigger problems ), and I also went to graduate school and got my Master's during that time. Now I got into med school. My son is 8, my husband is 8 years older, but still just as supportive as he has always been and in a few years (if everything goes well) I will be a doctor. Granted I haven't gone through it yet, but my life has always been busy, so I think that if I could handle grad school, full time work, and family, I can handle med school and family. The point is: It is possible, so follow your dream. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MEDCOMPSCI Posted August 16, 2001 Report Share Posted August 16, 2001 Well I am not a female nor am I thiknig of becoming one so I will let you ladies discuss most of this. I just wanted to add something with regrads to a post above dealing with residency. If you are an older applicant, I would tend to assume that you would not be as totally opposed to family practice as other applicants since it is only a two year residency as opposed to doing 5+ years. (I think someone mentioned that they were thinking of family medicine above). Well, family docs do not have that tough a residency; no 120 hour work weeks (i think it is like 60 or something). However, if you are a little more ambitious in terms of a residency than you can expect to be working quite (understatement) a lot. I think there are rules in place that make it unlawful for a resident to work for more than 24hours straight (unless an emergency occurs), but I am pretty sure than you will be working 24hours straight every other day. I guess, for lack of a better term, you would spend every moment outside the hospital studying for the licenseing exams or sleeping. Although after med school I am sure that most people are trained to function on 3-4 hours sleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted August 17, 2001 Report Share Posted August 17, 2001 Time pressures will definitely be in place during med school, particularly in the senior years. A lot depends on your grading system (although like I mentioned earlier, virtually all English-speaking Canadian med schools use either an P/F or H/P/F grading system) and the method of evaluation. For example, Calgary has an end-of-block examination format. Therefore, once you finish studying the cardiovascular system, you have an exam, and then don't touch that material again. This means that you might have an exam every 4-6 weeks, but then you don't need to refresh that information for a long time. UBC, on the other hand tests you at the end of the term. For example, our final term of Med 2 had Dermatology, Brain and Behaviour, Reproduction, and Growth and Development. All four blocks were tested within the space of about a week at the end of May. Needless to say, it's a great system for all the months that you don't have an exam in, but it royally sucks come May, and you need to study about 5 months worth of material. As far as the senior years of med school, once you start clerkships in the hospital, you are at the mercy of the hospital and its call system. My first rotation will be Orthopedics in September, and I'm expecting Q4 call. In other words, every fourth night I'm on call, and theoretically, I could start work on Monday morning, work all Monday, be awake and functioning all Monday night, and still be expected to work all day Tuesday. In other words, Q4 opens you up to the possibility of doing a 36 hour shift every 4 days. I expect to be on Q4 call for a few of my third year rotations, such as Orthopedics, Surgery, and Internal Medicine. Other rotations will be difficult as well, such as Obstetrics or Pediatrics. A few rotations should be quite light: eg. Dermatology, Ophthalmology, Emerg, Psychiatry. Many surgical residencies at UBC have their residents on a Q3 system, at least for the first few years until they become senior residents. Ian UBC, Med 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ricorod Posted August 17, 2001 Report Share Posted August 17, 2001 Just to add my two cents...I'm doing a masters in epidemiology right now, and two of my classmates are MD's who had children during their residencies. One of them is an obstetrician/gynecologist, and actually had 2 children at different stages of her residency. The other specialized in internal medicine and had a son during the residency. I guess the bottom line is that it's possible. I was talking to one of them, and she said that she was (obviously) allowed some maternity leave during her residency, and it took a lot of commitment and time management, but it all worked out well. The way I see it is that with hard work and enough commitment, anything is possible. I do have to agree with one of the above posts in that I think family should come before anything, so it will certainly help to have an understanding and helpful husband. All the best with everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MSax35 Posted August 18, 2001 Report Share Posted August 18, 2001 I am 35 and also considering this career change. Have been home with kids for past 4 years, going back to school in two weeks, taking premed coursework. I will be applying next year and will be 37 "if" I get in on my first try. My kids are very young (all preschool now) but my husband is very supportive and involved. He's been through a similar program so is well aware what is involved. The way I look at it is: I would rather be absent from my kids some of the time doing something I really love and want, than with them all of the time, but feeling unfulfilled. Many other parents in meds that I've spoken to have confirmed that it is very doable, and that having a family just gives your life during meds more perspective and balance. I think the key is having a supportive spouse who isn't going to hold it against you when you just can't contribute like you used to. I also believe that it isn't necessary for kids to feel that the world revolves around them - I think its important to teach kids from a young age that everyone in the family should have some responsibility to contribute to the overall good of the family - including them. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fahhotguy Posted August 18, 2001 Report Share Posted August 18, 2001 HI, The gold medalist from my medical school class (1996, Dalhousie) was a mother, age about 30, and she was also a terrific leader in the class. I didn't find medical school all that challenging, and I think the comments above about surgical residencies are valid. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MEDCOMPSCI Posted August 18, 2001 Report Share Posted August 18, 2001 I think it is very doable for a person who is a more mature applicant to apply to medicine, although I would think that more of you would be looking at family medicine as a definite alternative. Canada needs family docs, so I think it is great that people you obviously want to be docs for reasons other than the money/pretisge are applying. As a family doc, you will only have to commit about 6 years as opposed to the usual 10+ years before you have completed a residency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted August 19, 2001 Report Share Posted August 19, 2001 I'd say that a fair number of my classmates who were looking into specialties when they were first accepted are now considering family medicine. Family really has the most flexible schedule of the medical specialties. It's a two year residency, you set your own hours at the office, you are completely immune to any hospital job action (a very important consideration in Canada!), there is widespread demand in Canada, both in urban and rural settings. I thought Vancouver was saturated with doctors until I tried finding a family doctor here who was still accepting patients. I called 30+ family doctors in the Vancouver area before finding one! Family also has a number of one year fellowships (at least in BC) that allow you to take on a much greater role in rural areas. In the rural setting, where there aren't hordes of specialists waiting to consult on your patients, you have much greater independance and autonomy/responsibility. eg. GP-Anesthetist, GP-Sports Med, GP-Obstetrics, GP-Emerg, GP-Surgery. You may also be able to tailor your patient population to some degree, depending on your training background. I worked with a GP who has a large pediatric patient base, mainly because she adds a lot of obstetrics cases into her practice. If working with the geriatric population is more to your liking, you can work out arrangements with local nursing homes, and work an afternoon or two in that environment. One of my classmates was a personal trainer before entering medical school, and plans to incorporate a large amount of rehabilitation, and exercise/sports medicine into his practice. Family doctors also have a wide variety of locums to choose from, so you can travel and work without feeling tied down to your office and all the patient obligations that go wih it. Heck, you can even join a walk-in clinic and never take an appointment again! I think that a lot of the stress in medical school is self-imposed. With the advent of H/P/F and P/F evaluations, there isn't any worry about failing out of your classes. The onus is on you to decide which areas you are weak in, and want to improve in yourself. Ultimately, your personal standards may be much higher than anything that is set by the medical school. Ian UBC, Med 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mn Posted August 23, 2001 Report Share Posted August 23, 2001 Thanks to everyone for their stories, support and insight. It's encouraging to hear of other mature (that is, wise) women and mothers who are thinking about med school. The way I see it, our life experience and previous work/school experience is a definite asset which strengthens our applications and ultimately helps us be better doctors. It'll be a tough road to take (med school in mid/late 30s with 2 or 3 kids), but one that I'm very excited about pursuing. For me, the personal fulfillment which I haven't found in my other careers will be worth all the discipline and hard work. At this point, I am certainly most interested in family medicine, but not simply because it is the shortest route. The relationships that I will build with patients and their families, the broad base of knowledge needed, the amount of listening and counseling are all drawing cards. Flexibility in my time schedule is key, along with the possibility of part-time work, and I was really glad to see that emphasized by Ian. I do have a question about family med locums. As I understand it, they are short-term contracts where you go to a new location and fill in for another doctor. Is it for maternity leave positions? Or what are the scenarios? If you do locums, does that mean you can't have an office practice, because then your regular patients wouldn't have access to you? How do locums work? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 I don't know too much about locums. I'll worry about that once I finish residency, which looks to be in about 7 years, if everything goes according to plan... Generally, like you've mentioned, locums fill in for family doctors who, for one reason or another, are currently not practicing, and therefore have a vacant office. Many of the common reasons that locums will be recruited are to fill in for retiring/leaving doctors until a new permanent family doctor can be found, maternity leave, and vacationing. I'm sure there's many others. Basically, having an office-based practice is a bit like being handcuffed to your work. Once you build up a practice, with say 1500 patients in your office, you really can't leave without stranding your patients. This is the reason many doctors work in a group practice, so that the rest of the group can cover for you. This is also the one of the reasons why hospital-based specialties like anesthesia and emerg, and often radiology and pathology are very popular. You don't have to deal with the headaches of owning and running an office (basically you can just show up at the hospital and work), and you aren't committed to any regular patients. Being responsible for your patient base can really put some restrictions on you and your vacation and travel time. For example, let's say you wanted to take a month off at Christmas to visit family out of town. Your patients now no longer have anyone to go to, except for Emerg and perhaps the local walk-in clinic. If you are in a group practice, and have worked out arrangements in advance for the other doctors to cover your patients, then you can go. If, on the other hand, those doctors also have similar plans to leave town on vacation (and who doesn't?), then you'll have to find yourself a locum, or else shut down the practice for the month. Locums usually make arrangements with the doctors for whom they are substituting in terms of repayment. What I've seen in my limited experience is that a locum will pay a certain percentage of his/her daily or weekly income back to the doctor in payment for using that office space. The benefit to the locum is that this way, he/she isn't committed to owning or maintaining an office space, and all the extras like medical equipment or office staff, and can leave town at any time without the commitment of watching over a patient base. The locum also can learn a lot about how different doctors manage and run an office practice (which is something they don't teach you in medical school, but really should, if there was time for it...). The family doctor gains by being able to leave his/her practice for an indefinite amount of time, and because the locum pays for the cost of the office overhead (eg. rent and employee salaries). Ian UBC, Med 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JenniferLR Posted September 2, 2001 Report Share Posted September 2, 2001 I hope that I am not intruding too much on your wonderful forum. I enjoyed reading this thread and gained a bit of insight. The topic of raising children during medical training is one that frequently comes up for me. I am the wife of a US resident (and mom of three) and an administrator on an ezboard site that deals with the spouses of MD's and DO's. We don't confine ourselves to the US, in fact, our group would very much welcome ANY spouses of physicians from anywhere in the world. If you are interested, the name of our site is the MD/DO Spouse Support Forums and the link is: pub37.ezboard.com/bmdspouses Again, I hope I didn't intrude too terribly and I do welcome all of you - whether you are med students, residents, or finished with your training to invite your spouses to visit our site and participate if they wish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted September 2, 2001 Report Share Posted September 2, 2001 Hi Jennifer, Welcome to the forums! I have placed a link to your forums at the bottom of our main page, in the WebRing section. We would love to have your presence on this group. I realise this is way off the original topic, but one thing you may wish to check on your forums is that for each page that I view, I get a pop-up asking whether I wish to install Comet Cursor Plus. It will keep popping up until I either install it (which I don't want to do), or until I change some settings on my computer to ignore it (which I also don't really want to do). As a result, this annoying pop-up might be something you want to investigate to see if you can make its presence less intrusive. Anyway, nice to meet you! Ian UBC, Med 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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