Lawyer --> Doctor - Advise for a Non-Trad applicant

[silverbullet1]

Hello,

 

I'll be completely honest off the bat, I'm not sure I want to go to medical school, but I have no intention of applying in the next 5 years anyway. I realize that things might change significantly during that timeline, but I'd like to get an idea of my chances assuming things are similar then as they are now.

 

I'm just about to graduate law and business school (JD/MBA) and completed an undergraduate degree in political science. My undergrad (3 years) GPA was 83% or 3.56 on OLSAS conversion table (I believe OMSAS uses the same one). My law school GPA is a B+, and my MBA grades are a solid B.

 

I want to keep the medical school option open as I truly find the field fascinating, and quite honestly, I'm concerned I'll find the practice of law rather dry. This past year I was dating an MD (Rheumatologist), and I far preferred hearing about her day and discussing her lectures at Grand Rounds than I did talking about my own. I had a chance to attend a Grand Rounds presentation at Sunnybrook and left it dreading having to go back to learn about Commercial Law when the discussion on gastro was far more interesting. I have a copy of Toronto Notes 2009 on my shelf that is more appealing to me than any of my law books sitting beside it. But I digress.

 

That being said, I have been in school long enough for the time being and I need to work for awhile. So my plan is to get my license to practice law, and work for at least 5 years and then evaluate the medical school option.

 

Given my GPA, degrees, and experiences, what are my chances and what can I do in the next 5 years to increase those odds?

 

Thanks

[future_doc]

Bottom line, you are not competitive in an environment with those with a 4.0 GPA do not get interviews. Five years from now it willl even be more competitive than it is today. There are areas of law where you do terrific work to help society, but that comes at a cost of less income. Have a wonderful relationship with that M.D. and enjoy the best of both worlds that way. I wish you every success.

[silverbullet1]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Just to note, B for an MBA is not academic probation, it's decidedly average.

 

Also the JD/MBA is a concurrent program, not sequential.

 

Is there a MCAT score that could make my GPA competitive?

[future_doc]

You DO have a shot @ McMaster if in the MCAT, you do really well in the Verbal (forget about other parts of MCAT) and very, very well in Casper, their new MMI equivalent of the MMI in writing. See my comments on Casper in my link below on Interview Prep and check out the McMaster Forum on Casper. I would think you should do well in the MMI itself. I am effectively saying you put all your eggs in one baske but it is possible.

 

BTW, the market for lawyers isn't the best and I know more than one who have obtained additional law degrees b/c they were unable to find work in their areas of interest and were not prepared to settle at this stage of the game.

[JustMe]

I don't think your chances are as hopeless as the above posts make them seem. I'm not saying it's a given or that it'll be easy (it won't) but it's not impossible.

 

An OMSAS GPA of 3.5 seems low for an 83% average (unless you balanced out several D's with several A+'s or your undergrad university had some weird grading scheme... hard to recover from that). You definitely need it to be above 3.6 but as an applicant with several years of experience and a professional degree after undergrad, you don't need a 4.0 to get in. That said, they likely won't even review your application at school's with hard cut-offs (Queens, Western +/- geographic residency).

 

Spend the next few years working as a lawyer and try to find an are of law that you like. Starting med school is a loooooong road and if you're starting later in life, it'll seem that much longer. But if, in a few years, you know that the law isn't for you and that med is... go for it. If all else fails, you have a great career to fall back on even if it isn't your dream job.

 

I'm pretty sure I had one of the lowest undergrad GPA's of anyone in my med school class... you just need to overcome that number with life experience. Anyone who says otherwise could use a little life experience of their own

[silverbullet1]

Thanks everyone for the replies (and anyone who comes after me).

 

I am not under any delusion that my degrees will carry me into medical school simply because they are competitive in their own right. Regardless I appreciate everyone's advice, both the encouragement and frank reality. Going to medical school is something I'd like to keep in the back of my mind over the next 5 years while I settle into law and see if it is my calling, so having an understanding of what I might need to do, where I might be able to go and what my odds are will be useful.

 

Law School (Osgoode Hall - where I am), is a tight B curve, my grades would rank me between the top 20-25%. That said, I know when I was apply for law school, they didn't factor in the grading curve of the undergraduate program, I guess the same applies to medical schools.

 

Final note, I have family ties in the maritimes (born in New Brunswick - all my family still lives there), if I were to return there and live/work for a couple years would I get any residency preference at UNBSJ/Dalhousie? For those that know, given my potential situation how do ECs/life experiences weigh at Dal?

 

 

 

Thanks

[Guest BluePin]

if I were to return there and live/work for a couple years would I get any residency preference at UNBSJ/Dalhousie?

 

Yes. But you will need to look into exactly what will qualify you as a resident.

 

For those that know, given my potential situation how do ECs/life experiences weigh at Dal?

 

Broadly speaking, you are going to need to research this yourself to gain some confidence in your chances of acceptance. This board is good to preruse, but also contains a lot of misinformation (see this post from Ian Walker, Dean of Admissions @ UofC Med School).

 

Your undergraduate grades will likely be acceptable as an in-province applicant for some schools. However, things can change, and the best information will be gained from some dedicated research into each school. This is a pain, as each school's requirements and preferences are different, but the devil is in the details with some of the GPA number crunching and residency requirements.

 

Off the top of my head, I would suggest that UofC, Sask, Dal, Mac, or UofT (grad applicant stream) might work if you can obtain in-province status.

[MaeFleur]

After reading that post by Dr. Ian Walker I am nervous to chime in here with what I know about Dal, but I think I know my stuff (I was just accepted about a week ago).

 

ECs are weighed pretty heavily at Dal. Here's the score breakdown:

 

10% MCAT - We have guessed that a score of 35 or 36 gives you a 10/10, minimum for in province (IP) applicants is 24, I think 30 is minimum for OOP (out of province applicants). The average last year was 30 for those accepted.

 

15% GPA - minimum 3.3 for IP, 3.7 for OOP. The class average last year was 3.8.

 

40% interview - MMI

 

35% Extras (supplemental)

• 5% Work experience
  
• 5% Volunteer experience
  
• 5% Medically related experience
  
• 5% extra curriculars (sports, arts, clubs...)
  
• 5% awards and publications
  
• 10% essay
  

 

As for IP status, Dal follows these guidelines:

As a Single Independent Student, you are considered a resident of Nova Scotia if [...]

 

Nova Scotia is the most recent province in which you have lived for 12 consecutive months. During this time you cannot have been a full-time student.

from http://studentloans.ednet.ns.ca/loaninfo_2011-12/loan-amounts. These are for NS, I'm not exactly sure about NB.

 

However, if you moved to NB you'd have not only a shot at Dal but at MUN as well.

[Rene_Descartes]

You sound like a bright student. JD/MBA - are you in the combined JD/MBA program at Univ of Toronto? If so, I think the world in your oyster. What a UT law degree in Canada, you can do anything you want. However, I think you need a strong career direction. Talk to people who have been in your boat and I assume it's not that many people. I do hear stories of people who drop out of law to attend medicine and vice versa but not that many people who continuously seek degrees. In the end, it's a lot of money, but more importantly, it's the years in your life. You can always make money but you can't get your youth back. The GPA issue can always be remedied with a strong MCAT and you will not be penalized for your continuous pursuit of higher education. Grad school is hard and most people know it. You will not be lumped in the same pool with people who've only had a BA in basketweaving. So my suggestion for you is just to do more research on this and talk to people about this transition. Make sure you really want to do medicine. Make sure it is something you want to do rest of your life, because you are really passionate about it and not because it seems interesting to you right now.

[dy727]

You sound like a bright student. JD/MBA - are you in the combined JD/MBA program at Univ of Toronto? If so, I think the world in your oyster. What a UT law degree in Canada, you can do anything you want. However, I think you need a strong career direction. Talk to people who have been in your boat and I assume it's not that many people. I do hear stories of people who drop out of law to attend medicine and vice versa but not that many people who continuously seek degrees. In the end, it's a lot of money, but more importantly, it's the years in your life. You can always make money but you can't get your youth back. The GPA issue can always be remedied with a strong MCAT and you will not be penalized for your continuous pursuit of higher education. Grad school is hard and most people know it. You will not be lumped in the same pool with people who've only had a BA in basketweaving. So my suggestion for you is just to do more research on this and talk to people about this transition. Make sure you really want to do medicine. Make sure it is something you want to do rest of your life, because you are really passionate about it and not because it seems interesting to you right now.

 

I believe OP is at Osgoode doing JD/MBA with Schulich

[silverbullet1]

dy727 is correct.

 

You're right Rene, it is not just the difficulty of admission but also time and money (both actual cost and opportunity cost).

 

I wouldn't do something unless I was convinced of my passion, I would volunteer (or find another avenue to confirm my interest first), heck I've got enough friends who are MDs maybe I can shadow them for a bit. One of the advantages of being older I guess.

[dy727]

dy727 is correct.

 

You're right Rene, it is not just the difficulty of admission but also time and money (both actual cost and opportunity cost).

 

I wouldn't do something unless I was convinced of my passion, I would volunteer (or find another avenue to confirm my interest first), heck I've got enough friends who are MDs maybe I can shadow them for a bit. One of the advantages of being older I guess.

 

It wouldn't be easy for sure. You're competing with students coming from degrees with absolute grading systems compared to law or other fields (such as engineering or business).

 

But at the same time, it is certainly not impossible and once you go over the grade hurdle (gpa, mcat) you probably have equal or even greater chance when you count your experience etc.

 

Plus jd/MBA isn't completely irrelevant to medicine too so u might end up finding a niche of yourself