Guest Talon01 Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 Howdy, I was wondering much (if at all) P/F/H are looked at and evaulated when you apply to residency? Also, what makes an applicate 'competitive'? Just doing electives in the program/region you'd like to do your residency? References? What is a good approach to ensure you're competitive for a residency you'd like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Hey there, If your school has the P/F/H system then an Honours grade would only be an asset in the residency selection process. As for other aspects of competitiveness, universally, it has been noted that electives are important as are essays. Some faculty members value references while others only view negative references as having utility (since most reference letters are quite good) and some schools/committees value research or the CV. In short, it depends on the program and the school. As for a general approach: look at the CaRMS program description sites early to see what programs value. Also, it can be valuable to speak to current residents and faculty within the program that you fancy to see what may be considered positive in an applicant. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TimmyMax Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Hey, While it would be beneficial (somewhat) if your school is H/P/F to have an academic record that reads all H's, bear in mind that not all schools are H/P/F and are in fact just P/F. People from these schools don't seem to be at any disadvantage versus people from H/P/F schools and match just as well in comparison. Bear in mind that when it comes to CaRMS, most programs care only if you pass and didn't have to repeat any years when they consider your medical school transcript (with exceptions). Your personal interview, reference letters, electives, personal essays and clerkship evaluations matter a lot more than your pre-clerkship (or even clerkship) marks, so keep that in mind as well! Best of luck! Timmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Talon01 Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Thanks Timmy, That's basically what I've been hearing from here and there that years 1 and 2 don't really matter too much (that someone with all H's doesn't stand a better chance than someone with a few P's here and there) if at all. Others have said that, like you said, as long as you pass they don't care if it was a P or an H. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drews97 Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Keep in mind too that the criteria to get honors at some schools is different that at others. For example, at Queen's if you get over 80% you get honor. Everyone could get honors and, in fact, in some semesters 70% of the class gets honors. At other schools, like U of A, you must be in the top 15% of the class ON EVERY TEST (!!) to get honors. With the amount of effort needed to get that you'd be better off spending the time chilling out, keeping fit and doing observerships and/or research. These are things that will help you much more than getting honors ever will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TimmyMax Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Hey That's basically what I've been hearing from here and there that years 1 and 2 don't really matter too much (that someone with all H's doesn't stand a better chance than someone with a few P's here and there) if at all. Others have said that, like you said, as long as you pass they don't care if it was a P or an H. Yeah, that was a rumour that I was banking on when I was in my pre-clinical years and it turned out to be 100% true! Rather than bust my ar$e to try and get 95% in every course/exam we wrote, I instead spent a lot of my time doing things that were fun (ie: sports, music, clubs, partying, etc.) and just studied to pass- of course, there were a couple of courses that I really wanted honours in, so I worked a bit harder in those ones, but only to get the magical 80%- that way I got the same mark as all the others who busted their butts to get 90s- cool eh? :lol Anyway, as it turned out, the residency interview panels were all impressed by my ECs and it gave me a ton of things to talk about in interviews. Keeping a solid balance between "life" and academics is definitely important. Best of luck! Timmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Talon01 Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 I guess it's just reassuring to hear someone who's been through the 'system' to say that the difference between someone with 10H vs 6H and 4P really means nothing at all. Seeing all the people bust their arse and barely sleep sometimes throws my confidence a bit ya know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valani9 Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 In the immortal words of Hal Johnston and Joanne McLeod: "Keep fit, and have fun." Seriously, unless you're naturally very good at test-writing, don't stress out about getting H's. You'll miss out on all the other important stuff in terms of getting into residency, and more importantly, in life. Rock on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Talon01 Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 How much are the preclinical years worth academically speaking when applying to residency? 20% 10% 0%? I'm predicting that it varies from school-to-school and there's there's no real formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TimmyMax Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Hey, Preclinical clerkship mark weighting depends on the program you are applying to, but even then, I'd hazard to guess that it is a pretty minimal weight, if any weight at all. I'd even go so far as to say that some programs don't even consider it at all, so long as you didn't take 6 years to finish 4 years of medical school. I can think of at least five factors that are much more impactful on the success of your application to residency and pre-clerkship marks are definitely nowhere to be found among them. Best of luck! Timmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TimmyMax Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Hey, Sorry, just wanted to share a thought that just occurred to me on this matter- you may get mixed responses from 4th years/residents on this question. I think that it all has to do with how people did in their pre-clerkship. I think that you'll find that people who aced their pre-clerkship and matched will feel that their pre-clerkship grades contributed to their success (as opposed to playing minimal to no part of their success), while others who didn't manage to get all Honours will say that they weren't a hinderance at all. I belong to the latter group, so I am of the latter opinion. Regardless, I know at least that for my program (anaesthesia) and the vast majority of other anaesthesia programs across the country, pre-clerkship marks were considered more of a flag than anything else (ie: 6 years to complete medical school = red flag, 4 years to complete medical school = green flag). It might be different in other programs, but I didn't apply to them, so I can't really comment. Best of luck! Timmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest supa76 Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 so what about if you decided to take a year off, and thus took 5 years to finish med? I can imagine it depends on how you spent that year off.. i.e. hiking around burnaby with a keg strapped to your back vs. clinical research/volunteering/traveling etc. I hear that taking time off between 2nd and 3rd year vs. after 4th before matching is definitely the way to go. any truth to that? Also in regards to H/P/F... scholarships and other awards are based on preclinical marks, so perhaps free money is a reason to kick a55 in the first couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TimmyMax Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Hey, You'll notice that I put 6 years and not 5 years for that reason... Regardless, your Dean's Letter should explain why you took the extra time to complete your 4 years of medical school. So long as the extra year wasn't spent repeating 2nd year due to academic failure or for punching a standardized patient, you should be fine. Just to add to your last point, there are also lots of scholarships and awards based on clerkship marks as well- and yes, free money does kick a$$! Best of luck! Timmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Talon01 Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Thanks Timmymax, your insight has been quite helpful and if anyone else has opinions I'm all ears/eyes. PS - Congrats on your match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest medzguy Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 In ottawa I know there is a score out of 24. marks for preclerkship years count for 4 marks. If you get 1 pass in the first 2 years you score 2/4 . If you score 2 passes in the first 2 years you score 0/4. The rest 20 marks are for clerkship I think. Thats what I heard so apparently marks do matter. I would be interested to know more about other med schools ways of working marks out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest satsumargirl Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 If you get 1 pass in the first 2 years you score 2/4 . If you score 2 passes in the first 2 years you score 0/4. Just curious where you heard this from? This marking scheme just doesn`t make sense to me given that many applicants to Ottawa residency programs will have come from schools with only Pass/Fail. And even if it were true, 4 marks out of a possible 24 isn`t that much of a weighting for 2 years of your life! I have spoken to some faculty about preclerkship marks and all have agreed that they mean very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest everyoneloveschem Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Out of curiosity, how many people fail? What percentage take more than 4 years for their MDs, for reasons other than personal problems, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TimmyMax Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Hey, Usually the ones that don't match in the 1st round of CaRMS! :lol Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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