Etude Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Hi, I just have one question about the american school. I am currently doing second degree to raise my chance for medical schools. I finished my first degree with very low gpa (~2.2). Yet, I still could not give up my dream, and started second degree last year. The gpa for last year was around 3.8. I am expecting my gpa for this year will be about the same or even better than last year. However, when I do the math for cGPA of both degree, the cgpa is just crap still. There is no way my cGPA will be high as other candidates unless I invest 15 more years on my undergrad (of course, with straight 4.0 gpa for all years). Now I am wondering if it is really worth considering state med schools. Should I apply next year cycle or abandon my dream and go for other career? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nychila Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Hi, I just have one question about the american school. I am currently doing second degree to raise my chance for medical schools. I finished my first degree with very low gpa (~2.2). Yet, I still could not give up my dream, and started second degree last year. The gpa for last year was around 3.8. I am expecting my gpa for this year will be about the same or even better than last year. However, when I do the math for cGPA of both degree, the cgpa is just crap still. There is no way my cGPA will be high as other candidates unless I invest 15 more years on my undergrad (of course, with straight 4.0 gpa for all years). Now I am wondering if it is really worth considering state med schools. Should I apply next year cycle or abandon my dream and go for other career? Thanks! 2.2 will definitely be a problem. What degree are you pursuing right now? American medical schools will be a stretch; consider DO or Caribbean. You will need a very high MCAT score, good clinical experiences, lots of research, and diverse extracurriculars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etude Posted September 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 2.2 will definitely be a problem. What degree are you pursuing right now? American medical schools will be a stretch; consider DO or Caribbean. You will need a very high MCAT score, good clinical experiences, lots of research, and diverse extracurriculars. Thanks, I finished biology as my first degree, and the degree I am currently doing is kinesiology. Most of prerequisites were done during the first semester. I did not take English yet, but I have a full year course that is essay heavy. I hope some schools will accept that as an alternative course for English. Anyways, the 'trend of improvement' in GPA will not help me at all. Am I correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nychila Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Thanks, I finished biology as my first degree, and the degree I am currently doing is kinesiology. Most of prerequisites were done during the first semester. I did not take English yet, but I have a full year course that is essay heavy. I hope some schools will accept that as an alternative course for English. Anyways, the 'trend of improvement' in GPA will not help me at all. Am I correct? A trend in GPA will be helpful, but getting a degree with a 2.2 GPA is very low. You'll have to prove to the admissions committee that you are able to handle the rigorous academic coursework in medical school. Take some time to improve your GPA and consider those things I mentioned. If you have 2 years of excellent GPA, consider applying to Canadian schools that only calculate the top 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etude Posted September 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 A trend in GPA will be helpful, but getting a degree with a 2.2 GPA is very low. You'll have to prove to the admissions committee that you are able to handle the rigorous academic coursework in medical school. Take some time to improve your GPA and consider those things I mentioned. If you have 2 years of excellent GPA, consider applying to Canadian schools that only calculate the top 2 years. Then I guess applying to the state schools after this year is just worthless (Assuming that my MCAT and EC are just about 'average'). Thanks for the info ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blizzah Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 US schools take ALL years of school into consideration. They may place emphasis on upward curves etc., but that 2.2 over 4 years is going to sink your GPA to the point you may not make it past an initial screen You probably have a better chance at Canadian schools which take last two or best two GPA years (Western, Queens, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashmetoo Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 I have a friend with a undergrad cGPA of 2.2. He didn't spent anymore time doing a 2nd undergrad degree - it would have taken years to make a meaningful difference. So he went to ROSS in the Caribbean, passed his step 1s, and is now in clinical rotations in Michigan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashmetoo Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 American medical schools will be a stretch; consider DO or Caribbean. But but, DO schools ARE American medical schools! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nychila Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 I have a friend with a undergrad cGPA of 2.2. He didn't spent anymore time doing a 2nd undergrad degree - it would have taken years to make a meaningful difference. So he went to ROSS in the Caribbean, passed his step 1s, and is now in clinical rotations in Michigan. Ross takes in students with a 2.2 GPA? Your friend must have excelled in other aspects of the application... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashmetoo Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Ross takes in students with a 2.2 GPA? Your friend must have excelled in other aspects of the application... no.. ROSS will take anyone that can pay. The guy was smart though, as he pulled off a 29T on an all nighter MCAT, with a 13 in VR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nychila Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 no.. ROSS will take anyone that can pay. The guy was smart though, as he pulled off a 29T on an all nighter MCAT, with a 13 in VR. All-nighter MCAT OP please don't mind me, but I'm going to jack your thread for a second. Mashmetoo: As a DO student in the US, if you wanted to, how likely is it that you could become a specialized physician in a competitive field in the US, eg. orthopedics and cardiology, or a semi-competitive specialty like general surgery. I've read some literature, but I just wanted your opinion on this. Also, do you believe that opportunities for specialized US residencies are more obtainable as a DO or a Caribbean MD graduate? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashmetoo Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 All-nighter MCAT OP please don't mind me, but I'm going to jack your thread for a second. Mashmetoo: As a DO student in the US, if you wanted to, how likely is it that you could become a specialized physician in a competitive field in the US, eg. orthopedics and cardiology, or a semi-competitive specialty like general surgery. I've read some literature, but I just wanted your opinion on this. Also, do you believe that opportunities for specialized US residencies are more obtainable as a DO or a Caribbean MD graduate? Thanks. two words: board scores. If you got US citizenship, the osteopathic match will definitely favour you for specialized fields. But in the US, board score is king. With a score high enough, you can compete with the MDs for specialized residencies. DOs get into those specialties you mention year after year - these are the people how have just as high, if not higher board scores than their MD counterparts. DO grad vs Caribbean grad specialization has been done to death on SDN - there's tables, excel sheets, graphs and everything. Consensus was DOs beat Caribbean MDs hands down. You should search for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nychila Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 two words: board scores. If you got US citizenship, the osteopathic match will definitely favour you for specialized fields. But in the US, board score is king. With a score high enough, you can compete with the MDs for specialized residencies. DOs get into those specialties you mention year after year - these are the people how have just as high, if not higher board scores than their MD counterparts. DO grad vs Caribbean grad specialization has been done to death on SDN - there's tables, excel sheets, graphs and everything. Consensus was DOs beat Caribbean MDs hands down. You should search for it. Thanks for your opinion. More MD applicants should explore the DO option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blizzah Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 two words: board scores. If you got US citizenship, the osteopathic match will definitely favour you for specialized fields. But in the US, board score is king. With a score high enough, you can compete with the MDs for specialized residencies. DOs get into those specialties you mention year after year - these are the people how have just as high, if not higher board scores than their MD counterparts. DO grad vs Caribbean grad specialization has been done to death on SDN - there's tables, excel sheets, graphs and everything. Consensus was DOs beat Caribbean MDs hands down. You should search for it. There are still specialties that are basically 99.99% closed off to DO though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashmetoo Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 There are still specialties that are basically 99.99% closed off to DO though. like?? 10char Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blizzah Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 like?? 10char I should not have said 99.99%, it should have been more like 98%. Derm, ENT, RadOnc, Neurology, Rads, Plastics, Ortho. 25% unmatched rate for USDO compared to 5% USMD overall. Sure DO is a decent option, but not so much if you want a competitive specialty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashmetoo Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 I should not have said 99.99%, it should have been more like 98%. Derm, ENT, RadOnc, Neurology, Rads, Plastics, Ortho. 25% unmatched rate for USDO compared to 5% USMD overall. Sure DO is a decent option, but not so much if you want a competitive specialty. This is a common misnomer I keep hearing about, that Derm, ENT, RadOnc, Neurology, Rads, Plastics, Ortho are "off limits" to DOs, never mind the fact that the AOA have their own residencies in these fields. Well, I disagree, perhaps this will help: http://206.82.221.135/showthread.php?t=813819 Also this list from my school this year: Neurology University of Arizona Medical Center ACGME UC Irvine ACGME Neurosurgery Arrowhead Regional Medical Center AOA Arrowhead Regional Medical Center AOA Ophthalmology State Univ of New York at Buffalo ACGME Orthopedic Surgery Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center AOA Riverside County Regional Medical Center AOA Riverside County Regional Medical Center AOA Radiology Loma Linda University ACGME University of Missouri - Kansas City/St. Lukes Hospital ACGME Wilford Hall/Brooke Army Medical Centers ACGME Bryn Mawr Hospital ACGME St. Barnabas Hospital AOA St. Barnabas Hospital AOA Urology Mt Clemens Consortium/ MSUCOM AOA UMDNJ AOA What can I say? I disagree. The 25% unmatched rate was referring to DOs applying to MD residencies, don't forget about the AOA backup if you are American, and more and more now, the CaRMs "backup" if you are Canadian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blizzah Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 How many fellowship options are open to residents finishing up AOA residencies? What about those interested in research later on? Sure, maybe you don't care for those fellowships, but maybe later on some people will. Specialties with at least 10 positions in The Match and filled more than 90 percent by U.S. seniors: Radiation Oncology (PGY-1): 100 percent Radiation Oncology (PGY-2): 98.1 percent Otolaryngology: 97.2 percent Dermatology (PGY-1): 95.7 percent Plastic Surgery (PGY-2): 95.0 percent Thoracic Surgery: 95.0 percent Orthopedic Surgery: 94.0 percent Vascular Surgery: 92.7 percent Note that the rest are filled with both DO and IMGs (Caribbean, UK, India, rest of Europe, wherever). And being a Canadian DO? You can bet you will be looked upon less favorably by some program directors than your US DO counterparts. I am not saying DO is not a good alternative, it is. But it is not the same as MD when it comes to matching and feel it is disingenuous of you to make it seem like it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashmetoo Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 How many fellowship options are open to residents finishing up AOA residencies? What about those interested in research later on? Sure, maybe you don't care for those fellowships, but maybe later on some people will. Specialties with at least 10 positions in The Match and filled more than 90 percent by U.S. seniors: Radiation Oncology (PGY-1): 100 percent Radiation Oncology (PGY-2): 98.1 percent Otolaryngology: 97.2 percent Dermatology (PGY-1): 95.7 percent Plastic Surgery (PGY-2): 95.0 percent Thoracic Surgery: 95.0 percent Orthopedic Surgery: 94.0 percent Vascular Surgery: 92.7 percent Note that the rest are filled with both DO and IMGs (Caribbean, UK, India, rest of Europe, wherever). And being a Canadian DO? You can bet you will be looked upon less favorably by some program directors than your US DO counterparts. I am not saying DO is not a good alternative, it is. But it is not the same as MD when it comes to matching and feel it is disingenuous of you to make it seem like it is. Well, residency is residency, fellowship is fellowship. Just as medical school is medical school, and undergrad is undergrad. You are mixing up the issue of fellowship with the issue of residency. Your previous post made the claim that the fields of "Derm, ENT, RadOnc, Neurology, Rads, Plastics, Ortho" are "off limits" to DOs, I hope the match list I've posted from my school alone shows that your initial argument does not stand up to scrutiny. Now, if we can agree on the fallacy of your first argument - that it is NOT the case that the competitive fields of "Derm, ENT, RadOnc, Neurology, Rads, Plastics, Ortho" are "off limits" to DOs at the level of residency matching, we can then continue onto the issue of fellowships that you bring up - which is a separate issue from that of residency matching. Now, regarding fellowships, the AOA offers fellowships, just as any medical organization would. As to specifically how many fellowships and in what fields, I'm afraid I'm not well versed in this topic. Regarding those ubber specialized fellowships in the MD world - everyone knows that it's going to be hard in the upper echelons. This is why parallel AOA residencies in equivalent fields exist. The issue you bring up of Canadian DOs not being looked favourably compared to a US DO for AOA fellowships, well this is true. Just as a Canadian MDs will not be looked at as favourably as US MDs for MD fellowships - this has more to do with the hassle of visa than ability. IF you rock your boards, and you score higher than your US MD/DO colleague, then that will probably make you as competitive as your counterpart. Nowhere have I EVER said that matching into these ubber competitive residencies will be "easy" as a DO. I've always said that you need to have competitive board scores to be competitive, especially as a DO. Please don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying, IF you have a high enough board score, or higher board score than your MD counterpart, THEN you can make the board a more even playing field. To simply take the last part "THEN you can make the board a more even playing field" while discounting the "IF", would be a logical fallacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slashsev Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 as a canadian MD without a green card your chance at those res spots are shot regardless if u do MD or DO... and no offense...but dont u have a 2.2 gpa?!! u should be happy to pass first year alone and land a family position and not everyone wants to do neuro derm onco/radiology lol..thats a new specialty i made up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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