Radiology residency with a family

[youngdad]

Any residents have kids? Manageable? Worse/better/same as clerkship? What city do you live in? Would you say your city and program are family friendly? By that I mean family housing, good schools and communities, parks, general attitude toward kids and family in the radiology department, time for family activities. If you have kids you know some of the "intangibles" can make a huge difference. I would love to hear your experience.

 

What would your partner say about the program/city? How about the workload. Does your partner complain about not seeing you enough or that you are too stressed?

 

Rads is my number 1. I am trying to decide how to rank these programs. I only have electives at 2 schools so the rest I am just going on website info and hearsay from people who aren't really in a comparable situation.

 

I am a UBC student. I have 2 kids currently ages 4 and 1. I think Calgary and UBC are going to be my top two but i cant decide between them. I have no idea what the other programs and cities are like with respect to families. Mcmaster is intriguing.

 

Forum search was fruitless. Any help would be greatly appreciated

[Lactic Folly]

I don't know how many radiology residents with children regularly post on these forums. You will have opportunities to ask these questions at the interview - if you prefer, you can contact programs for contact info of residents, but I would wait until you know what your ranking choices are.

[youngdad]

I don't know how many radiology residents with children regularly post on these forums. You will have opportunities to ask these questions at the interview - if you prefer, you can contact programs for contact info of residents, but I would wait until you know what your ranking choices are.

 

Yeah I figured if any had kids they wouldn't have much time to hang around these forums. This is a big part of my ranking choices so I would like as much info as I can get up front. It will influence what I say when programs ask "Why do you want to train here?." It may influence my letter to a school. The quality of the education is so good at so many programs and I want to go somewhere that my family is most comfortable. Could be a deal breaker for me.

 

Do you suggest I just contact the office of the programs i am considering and ask if any residents are available for emails? Thats not annoying?

[sarakj]

i would not necessary ask this qs in the interview.. some program directors are not too keen for their residents to have family.. so ask the residents not involved in the interview process. to answer your qs, yes !! i know a lot of people who have family and manage to complete their residency.. you should consider residency a work with longer hours and enjoy your life as much as you..

cheers

[Lactic Folly]

Re: cities and family friendliness - you can find this information from other, likely better, sources. Try the city data forums, or search around for discussions regarding moving to city x with a family. The information you gain should be more than enough for personal statement and interview purposes.

 

Re: programs and family friendliness - it would be helpful to clarify what you would consider evidence of a department's attitude towards families. As you are aware, many residents (radiology and surgery, male and female alike) do have children, and provisions for maternity/paternity leave are publicly available in housestaff contracts.

 

Ultimately, no matter where you go, you have to master the same body of skill and knowledge during residency, and that involves both adequate clinical volume during the day and self-directed studying after hours.

 

Sure, there may be some differences in call frequency or length of days (though I am not sure of the actual amount of variability across programs), but as sarakj intimated, even residents not on the committee may not be safe if you give off a perception that juggling work and family might be difficult for you.

 

I think that questions regarding the number of residents who have children and how they like the community would be perfectly appropriate. As for workload, I think you will get better information in person when you have a chance to observe the residents, get a feel for overall morale, and ask them about life outside the hospital, what a typical day is like, etc.

 

If you had additional questions (e.g. you did not have a chance to meet a resident with children during the interview), I don't think it would be inappropriate to try to obtain contact info. Just my opinion.

[youngdad]

i would not necessary ask this qs in the interview.. some program directors are not too keen for their residents to have family.. so ask the residents not involved in the interview process. to answer your qs, yes !! i know a lot of people who have family and manage to complete their residency.. you should consider residency a work with longer hours and enjoy your life as much as you..

cheers

 

Thanks for the response.

I would not want to be part of a program whose director didn't like residents having families. I wouldn't be a good fit. I would want to know this well ahead of time so as not to waste the program's or my time.

 

I have to trust the system. I am going to be myself through the process. I am not going to hide the fact that I have a family and I care about their happiness for the next 5 years to try to get into a program that is clearly less "family friendly." That sounds like a recipe for 5 years of unhappiness.

[youngdad]

Thanks for the advice.

 

Re: cities and family friendliness - you can find this information from other, likely better, sources. Try the city data forums, or search around for discussions regarding moving to city x with a family. The information you gain should be more than enough for personal statement and interview purposes.

 

Google is helping me a bit. Still doesn't beat an inside scoop.

 

Re: programs and family friendliness - it would be helpful to clarify what you would consider evidence of a department's attitude towards families. As you are aware, many residents (radiology and surgery, male and female alike) do have children, and provisions for maternity/paternity leave are publicly available in housestaff contracts.

 

Mat/pat is one way I guess. I think number or % of students with families would be a good indicator.

 

Ultimately, no matter where you go, you have to master the same body of skill and knowledge during residency, and that involves both adequate clinical volume during the day and self-directed studying after hours.

 

Sure, there may be some differences in call frequency or length of days (though I am not sure of the actual amount of variability across programs), but as sarakj intimated, even residents not on the committee may not be safe if you give off a perception that juggling work and family might be difficult for you.

 

Good point. I am not looking for a easy program. I will have to make sure when I am digging for info on programs I don't appear to be looking for something slack because I have kids. I'm not. I just want some first hand experience if I can find it. Little things like family housing etc can make a big difference.

 

I think that questions regarding the number of residents who have children and how they like the community would be perfectly appropriate. As for workload, I think you will get better information in person when you have a chance to observe the residents, get a feel for overall morale, and ask them about life outside the hospital, what a typical day is like, etc.

 

You're probably right. Nothing beats being there to get a feel for the program. I can't do electives at every program but hopefully I get some interviews at other schools so I can at least check out the city a bit.

 

If you had additional questions (e.g. you did not have a chance to meet a resident with children during the interview), I don't think it would be inappropriate to try to obtain contact info. Just my opinion.

 

Thanks.

[youngdad]

Thanks for the PM's. Very helpful.

[Satsuma]

I do not have kids but you will find people with families in most specialties. More often it will be a male resident with a family. But the occasional female resident will have had kids too.

 

When you ask about family friendly programs, I am not sure what you mean exactly.

 

Your hours will be dictated by whatever rotation you are on. So some rotations will be heavier than others. I realize that rads is pretty much on service after 1st year. But I am not sure what considerations you feel you need for your kids. Your hours will comply (for the most part) with your provincial agreement (so through PAIRO for example in ON). For the most part, you wouldn't know which residents had kids! I remember a resident on one of my rotations who had 2 kids, commuted over an hour each way to work daily to start at 7am and stayed late when she needed. You would never know she had kids unless you talked to her about it. Then on another rotation though, one resident never showed up until 8:30-9:00 when the rest of us were there at 7:30 and her reason was she had to take her kids to daycare. So she missed handover every morning and was late rounding on her patients, and let's say, she wasn't too popular!

 

It sounds like you already have your kids. So you aren't trying to take time off to have your family. But if you are thinking of adding some, then mat/pat leave is also determined by your provincial agreement. So no issue there.

 

With respect to family housing - you mean student housing? Most residents end up buying their own homes, especially if they have a family. Nobody I know lives on campus.

 

For MAC, I can tell you that there are rads residents with kids.

 

Maybe on your rotations you can ask questions to get a better feel for it. But I wouldn't make it a huge focus of your questions come interview time. But it would be good to at least show you have considered your family, and how they will fit in in a new city etc., at least if you are asked.

 

Also, some programs give out resident email addresses once you are invited for an interview (our program does), so you can ask questions. That might be a good way to get a feel too. You can just email a resident and ask them to help you get in touch with residents who have kids in their program.

[youngdad]

I do not have kids but you will find people with families in most specialties. More often it will be a male resident with a family. But the occasional female resident will have had kids too.

 

When you ask about family friendly programs, I am not sure what you mean exactly.

 

Your hours will be dictated by whatever rotation you are on. So some rotations will be heavier than others. I realize that rads is pretty much on service after 1st year. But I am not sure what considerations you feel you need for your kids. Your hours will comply (for the most part) with your provincial agreement (so through PAIRO for example in ON). For the most part, you wouldn't know which residents had kids! I remember a resident on one of my rotations who had 2 kids, commuted over an hour each way to work daily to start at 7am and stayed late when she needed. You would never know she had kids unless you talked to her about it. Then on another rotation though, one resident never showed up until 8:30-9:00 when the rest of us were there at 7:30 and her reason was she had to take her kids to daycare. So she missed handover every morning and was late rounding on her patients, and let's say, she wasn't too popular!

 

It sounds like you already have your kids. So you aren't trying to take time off to have your family. But if you are thinking of adding some, then mat/pat leave is also determined by your provincial agreement. So no issue there.

 

With respect to family housing - you mean student housing? Most residents end up buying their own homes, especially if they have a family. Nobody I know lives on campus.

 

For MAC, I can tell you that there are rads residents with kids.

 

Maybe on your rotations you can ask questions to get a better feel for it. But I wouldn't make it a huge focus of your questions come interview time. But it would be good to at least show you have considered your family, and how they will fit in in a new city etc., at least if you are asked.

 

Also, some programs give out resident email addresses once you are invited for an interview (our program does), so you can ask questions. That might be a good way to get a feel too. You can just email a resident and ask them to help you get in touch with residents who have kids in their program.

 

Thanks for the info Satsuma. All very helpful. Hope I get an interview at MAC.

[octals]

There are a couple of residents in calgary with children (I'm not one of them). As to your question re: is it harder than med school/clerkship: although i have no kids I think the safe answer here is yes. As a resident in Toronto said to me while I was on elective as a student "Medical school is not hard. Residency is."

[youngdad]

There are a couple of residents in calgary with children (I'm not one of them). As to your question re: is it harder than med school/clerkship: although i have no kids I think the safe answer here is yes. As a resident in Toronto said to me while I was on elective as a student "Medical school is not hard. Residency is."

 

Thanks octals. I will be visiting Calgary's program soon. The group of rads I have been working with for the last two weeks here in BC all say very good things about the Calgary program.

 

Med 1-2 were easier than my undergrad degree so I know residency could not be like that. Clerkship was challenging with 2 kids but really manageable. Both my wife and I feel like our relationship and family life never really suffered. It was a good year for us. I worked my bag off in clerkship to get the most out of it. I never dogged it, and I didn't whine. The only thing that suffered was just me being tired often.

 

It's funny that you say it is tougher in residency. I have always thought it must be tougher in residency. However, recently I have been asking around and many R1-R4's in a variety of disciplines have told me the opposite is true. That is, that clerkship was the toughest. Mind you none of them were rads that were past R1.

 

I am inclined to believe that R2-R4 for Rads,surgery, and IM must be much more taxing than clerkship.

 

Anyway, I am ready for hard work and lousy hours.

[1234]

Rads is easier than most other specialty residencies. First year rads is tough because its all off service on multiple surgical subspecialties and CTU. After that, smooth sailing - although Rads call is rough, zero sleep.

[Lactic Folly]

Most people I've heard say 2nd year and 5th year are the hardest (starting call and preparing for exams, respectively).

 

I'd say I had the most free time in 1st year, as would other residents in my program (some advice I wish I had gotten then was to start looking into research). Off-service junior residents generally have fewer expectations in terms of reading, as long as you show up and do your ward work / surgical call / what have you.

 

Not disputing that surgical residencies are generally more taxing, but trying to learn radiology (which means having a knowledge base to be a consultant to every specialty at their level) while doing regular call (had a couple months of 1 in 3 when weekend day shifts were included, though it evens out) is also a challenge in itself. I will say it's easier from the standpoint of being more enjoyable and feeling less like work, but that is my experience

 

Edit: saw the reference to medical school above.. I'm not sure they can be directly compared. Medical school has unique stresses of clerkship evaluations and CaRMS... so I would not instinctively say that I've found residency harder than medical school, mainly because I find the work environment more amicable (that being said, have yet to go through exams and the job hunt).

[octals]

I agree with pretty much everone's posts. Everyone experiences things a bit differently. For myself, I didnt find medical school challenging academically, but it was challenging for other reasons (lots of time away from home in 4th year, CaRMS).

 

First year residency was awesome. Call was busy and frequent, but i found the autonomy of functioning semi independently awesome compared to med school. And, to a certain extent, work was left at work.

 

Nowadays, I work for hours reading at home after work everyday. I find it much more challenging to maintain performance at the same level. But I wouldnt have it any other way, I love my specialty.

[octals]

Rads is easier than most other specialty residencies. First year rads is tough because its all off service on multiple surgical subspecialties and CTU. After that, smooth sailing - although Rads call is rough, zero sleep.

 

I think the opposite of this, but I suppose it depends on your outlook. I find surgery mind numbingly easy. Yes, you get tired, but it isnt hard.

 

Also, first year was a complete breeze.

 

Depending on the rotation, Its not uncommon for rads residents to work from 8 am to 8 or 9 pm on a regular weekday (not call). Add in time spent reading to keep up, and I'd have a hard time believing most surgical residents work as many hours per week.

 

I certainly would not claim that rads is the hardest residency there is, and i dont mean to sound hyperbolic. I do, however think that there is a general misconception of what rads residency is really like.

 

Perhaps other rads residents have a different perspective? Thoughts?

[Alastriss]

I think the opposite of this, but I suppose it depends on your outlook. I find surgery mind numbingly easy. Yes, you get tired, but it isnt hard.

 

Also, first year was a complete breeze.

 

Depending on the rotation, Its not uncommon for rads residents to work from 8 am to 8 or 9 pm on a regular weekday (not call). Add in time spent reading to keep up, and I'd have a hard time believing most surgical residents work as many hours per week.

 

I certainly would not claim that rads is the hardest residency there is, and i dont mean to sound hyperbolic. I do, however think that there is a general misconception of what rads residency is really like.

 

Perhaps other rads residents have a different perspective? Thoughts?

 

For shame. Surgical residents easily work more than that in my experience. If I had a 12-13 hour day that was considered a pretty easy day. Rads isn't the only specialty where there's tons of reading either.

[Lactic Folly]

I suppose we could agree that there is no such thing as an easy residency.

 

+ 1. Everyone has their area of expertise that they need to work to become proficient in over a relatively short period of time. Hard to comment on anyone else's experience unless you have been in their shoes (but tempting to do so), hence the common misperceptions.

[octals]

I suppose we could agree that there is no such thing as an easy residency.

 

Agreed. Except family. Kidding.