Guest pearlywhitesBC Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Ok, so I'm a woman and I've been doing a bit of reading on salaries and gender discrimination. I remember learning about the "glass ceiling" way back in my social studies class in high school but I really thought that it was bogus (I mean c'mon, I can do my job just as well as any guy...why should I make less for it). Apparently they didn't make it up!! OK - I'm not really surprised, I was just in denial. The sad fact is that as a women (and a dentist!) I am most likely going to get paid significantly less than my male counterparts. Here's a little tidbit I found from an article in an American magazine: "Experts do not dispute that a wage gap persists: A comparison of 1999 median salaries showed earnings of $110,000 for male dentists and $68,000 for female dentists; $70,000 for male pharmacists and $63,000 for female pharmacists; $20,000 for male teacher assistants and $15,000 for female teacher assistants, according to a wage-gap study released last month by the U.S. Census Bureau." :eek :eek Whatever!!!!!!! Here's another link I found to an article referencing US Census Bureau info: washingtontimes.com/upi-b...-6066r.htm I had a hard time finding info on salaries in Canada (I went to look at some census info but apparently you gotta pay $65 to see it). I did find an article on the gender gap in BC (I think it's from way back in 2001 but I doubt that the problem has improved significantly since then): vancouver.cbc.ca/newsindepth/payequity/ So, what do you guys think? I'm wondering if the difference in pay between men and women might be partially due to differences in the amount of hours worked or some other factor (maybe women dentists are more likely to take time off to spend with their kids?). Even still, it seems like a pretty big disparity. I just hope that I don't end up getting paid thousands of dollars less a year just because I'm female! Does anybody have any experience or relevant info on this topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sweetyork Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 First, not all gender differences favor the men. In dental school (like all other professional schools nowadays), there are more girls than boys. Often the gap is huge. Second, one main reason for the salary gap is that most women take time off during pregnancy and also work less hours to take care of thier children. Men, on the other hand, do not seem to place as much emphasis on their family as women in the work force. Nonetheless, there is some sexism still left in this world, which accounts for some of the salary gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toothy jr Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Let's think about this. The dentist is the person who charges for their service. Who is there to say that you deserve less because you are female? Do insurance companies do that? Of course not. People who earn less are either working fewer hours or billing less per hour. By billing less, I mean they have fewer things going on at the same time, or the procedures are not as demanding. If for some reason female dentists shun complicated extractions or endo treatment or crown/bridge work I don't know. If female dentists feel more pressure than male counterparts to spend time with their family then I guess that is an issue to discuss with the hubby. You can't "fight da power" if there's no power to fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pearlywhitesBC Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Like I said, I'm sure that women working less hours is part of the reason for the big difference, and I'm not trying to be all "fight da power" (I save the drama for my friends ) Even when you factor in these differences, there still seems to be a bit of a gap - here's a bit from one of the articles that I posted earlier: "Women have fewer years of work experience, work fewer hours, are less likely to work full-time and leave the work force for longer periods of time than men, according to the GAO study. But even factoring in all these variables could not account for all of the difference between men's and women's wages, according to the GAO study." So yeah, us working less accounts for much of the difference...but not all. And I agree that if I'm in charge of my own practice, I'm going to be the one that gets to decide on my fees etc. I guess I'll be lucky in that respect (many other careers wouldn't give me the same control over my earnings - I made a good choice with respect to that). I was just wondering about working as an associate at someone else's practice - I wonder if gender would be a factor in that case (?) I'm not saying that I would expect it either way - I really don't know what it's like in the field...I'm sure it really just depends on the person you're dealing with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pearlywhitesBC Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Ya you know what, I just read my first post over again and I sound like a bit of a whiner. I hadn't had my coffee yet....honestly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rez32 Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 I don't mean to open up a can of worms here, but that's probably what I'm doing now. I wonder if a "glass ceiling" exists because women's work are viewed to be inferior to that of their male counterparts. I'm not saying this is true (I'm female), but for people who do disparage women by inhibiting them with this glass ceiling, I think they do believe women don't do the job as well as men. I can't see why else there would be such a huge discrepancy between men and women's salary ranges. I'm not so much worried about having a boss who believes this, but do you think your average, everyday patient would think this way? That a male dentist is more qualified and skilled than a female dentist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toothy jr Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Maybe it's because I'm a guy, but I have no idea where you folks are coming from. What do patients know about procedure pricing? If they have insurance, they are reimbursed anyway. There is no mechanism in dentistry for haggling. Patients with emergency needs do not go shopping around, nor do dentists provide free estimates (have to do a specific exam +/- xrays, costing $40-60). Those of you who fret about the carving in DAT or making perfect preps in dental school might be concerned about technical merit, but patients have essentially no ability to determine the quality of your work. Not only do they lack knowledge in dental anatomy, they don't have the right angle/lighting to critically inspect most restorations. For a patient, the most important thing is the "clinic experience"; whether they have a good rapport with the dentist and if they feel comfortable during procedures. Is a female dentist viewed by male patients as something like a woman auto mechanic? Would it insult their masculinity to visit one? Somehow, I think that's stretching it a bit too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bcdentalgirl Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Pearywhites, Please do not apologize for bringing a valid and important issue to this board. i sense no whining in your post, merely interest and concern. And for the record, a glass ceiling refers to women figuring less prominent in higher postions and earnings brackets, not percentage in the workforce (or student body). I ask any of you to look to your own faculty and administration to see evidence of this. Put up your hands any of you with a female Dean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SharkCatcher Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 the president of mcgill university is female. hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toothy jr Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 dean of meds/dents at western is female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest koft Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 in a fee for service health care industry such as dentist, gender gap technically doesn't exist at all. It is based on how fast and how many patients you can see in a fiscal year. If a female dentist decided to take a year off instead of 2 months post partum, of course the overall average income of all female dentists will be lower than the male counterpart. Also, the provincial dental association sets the fee guide which insurance industries refer to, then all dentists can only charge for the same amount for the same procedure (however, not always true). As for other health care profession, properly the most talk about in US or Canada is nursing. Why do male nurses get higher average salary than female, because the ONA actually found that more percentage of male nurses hold advance practicum certification than female. Therefore, higher paid!!! I worked in a hospital for awhile, a male or female nurse with same credential gets paid the same per hour!!!! Glass ceiling does exist in business world, but I think the trend is the gap is narrowing from 20 yrs ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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