Q&A With Mac Med 2015

[holiday1001]

awesome. self-directed learning means you choose what you learn. as much or little anatomy, as much or little biochem as you want. you choose how you learn. there are lectures (although many are supplemental), or you can learn from textbooks, review articles. you choose when you learn. don't like getting up at 8am? you only have to regularly get up at 8 once a week, plus a few more times here and there. the bulk of my learning happens between 10pm and 5am.

[Hockeynut]

awesome. self-directed learning means you choose what you learn. as much or little anatomy, as much or little biochem as you want. you choose how you learn. there are lectures (although many are supplemental), or you can learn from textbooks, review articles. you choose when you learn. don't like getting up at 8am? you only have to regularly get up at 8 once a week, plus a few more times here and there. the bulk of my learning happens between 10pm and 5am.

 

From what I gather then you are essentially teaching yourself!?

[TO Docta]

Are there any 2nd/3rd years (currently clerks) or even residents that have taken McMaster's program and can comment on it and how well prepared they felt during clerkship/residency?

[aryastark]

From what I gather then you are essentially teaching yourself!?

 

Yes and no. Yes because we are responsible for our own learning, especially when it comes to tutorial. This means we have a lot of room to explore and pursue our own interests. No- we also learn a lot from our peers in tutorial, because often times different people will focus more on different parts of the case. We still have "lectures" (7 hrs per week, but it varies), and are provided with links to resources for each tutorial case. We also have weekly clinical skills sessions, which are taught by residents or staff physicians. Every 3rd Wednesday we also have clinical skills/ anatomy days.

In general, at first this seems disconcerting and overwhelming, but you get the hang of it quickly and there are a ton of resources (setting up horizontals, anatomy sessions, etc) so if you need direction, you can definitely get it.

[live101]

Are there any 2nd/3rd years (currently clerks) or even residents that have taken McMaster's program and can comment on it and how well prepared they felt during clerkship/residency?

 

So in terms of clerkship, I definitely feel I was prepared for it. It is a steep curve since it is quite different from pre-clerkship - you are studying the content of whatever rotation you are on when you are on it, and how hard you work on the rotation really dictates how prepared you are in that rotation. The PBL format also makes you great at learning to find your own resources, set your own objectives, and know what you need to learn to meet your needs.

 

In pre-clerkship, we have CAEs, PPIs and OSCEs to help us track our progress. In clerkship, you have tests at the end of each rotation that you need to pass, and you also continue to do PPIs. You also have lectures and teaching sessions (this varies depending on the rotation in terms of how it is organized), and occasionally, tutorials as well. Clerkship is what really transitions you for residency, and Mac has a great clerkship!

[w_robin]

Ok MacMeds! Just want to know, do you guys feel like because you're so often in sub-groups and only in lecture twice a week that you don't have as tight-knit a class? What are your thoughts on the community among med students at Mac? Also, do you interact much with the students who are already on clerkship? How much cross over is there?

 

Great question. The answer depends on the person - some people make an effort to try to get to know as many people in their class as possible; others get really tight with their academic groups; others have families and don't socialize as much outside of class; and others find their own social groups and hang out with them.

 

That's a bit of a cop-out answer.

 

Yes. Yes - it is harder to have a tight-knit class. There are times that I still run into people who I don't know that well - but I recognize them because of the backpack. And I consider myself as someone that tries to know most of my class. For other schools, some of them have mandatory lectures where they are all in the same room - physical proximity does make things easier. Lots of the people that go to LGS socialize during it - because it really is one of the few times where we are all together.

 

Cross-year interaction is rare but does happen. Again, depends on the person.

 

You will likely found however that EVERYONE is FRIENDLY and SOCIAL. It's just that people engage in different ways. But there have been numerous times this year that I've e-mailed an upper year to ask them some questions (maybe they went on an elective I'm interested in, they're in a specialty I want to know more about, or I heard they were a cool person to chat with) and they have ALWAYS made time for me.

 

So it comes down to you. It will take more effort - but is reasonable.

[w_robin]

How do you like PBL as opposed to the more classical way of teaching?

 

I'll go ahead and weigh in here as well.

 

It works depending on your learning style. (Great answer, eh?)

 

But actually - if you are the type of person who is self-motivated, likes to synthesize information on your own time, you find that talking material out loud and asking questions to your friends helps your learning, etc. then PBL is great.

 

That is, of course, not an exhaustive list of people that PBL works for.

 

One of the struggles I have is that I never know to what depth I need to know things.

 

However, the motivated medical student can:

- look up the Canadian accreditation guidelines

- ask my peers in our tutorial session

- ask my tutor

- find resources that are comprehensive but reasonable

 

So you have to make it work for you.

[Hockeynut]

I'll go ahead and weigh in here as well.

 

It works depending on your learning style. (Great answer, eh?)

 

But actually - if you are the type of person who is self-motivated, likes to synthesize information on your own time, you find that talking material out loud and asking questions to your friends helps your learning, etc. then PBL is great.

 

That is, of course, not an exhaustive list of people that PBL works for.

 

One of the struggles I have is that I never know to what depth I need to know things.

 

However, the motivated medical student can:

- look up the Canadian accreditation guidelines

- ask my peers in our tutorial session

- ask my tutor

- find resources that are comprehensive but reasonable

 

So you have to make it work for you.

 

Thanks for your input. It's honestly the major thing holding Mac back in my books atleast. Always been curious as to how people liked it once they truly got into it.

 

 

I ask you this out of pure curiosity and if you don't want to answer it then don't.

Would you go somewhere else now having experienced PBL/Mac first hand?

[Applemanv3]

Thanks for your input. It's honestly the major thing holding Mac back in my books atleast. Always been curious as to how people liked it once they truly got into it.

 

 

I ask you this out of pure curiosity and if you don't want to answer it then don't.

Would you go somewhere else now having experienced PBL/Mac first hand?

Now that I have experienced PBL/Mac first hand, I can vehemently say I would not choose differently if I could go back.

 

Are there days I hate Mac, sure. Days when I feel lost, plenty. Times when I want to beg UofT/Western/Queens for a spot....probably a few.

 

All that said, there are WAY too many days that I find myself counting my blessings to be at Mac. It's hard to describe and comes very differently to each person, but the opportunities and collegiality are simply superb. So no, I will stay here and I will never take for granted the opportunity I have been granted.

[Big Bird]

Post-PBL, is there some debrief with a professor concerning what's important for you to know in clinical situations? It seems like a regular lecture, perhaps question session, would be beneficial after having done your own research into each topic.

 

I'm a bit worried about only having fellow students to work with. We'll have a lot of bright students in the class, but we're not doctors. We have tutors in PBL sessions, but how guided are these sessions?

[RiverCityJill]

Post-PBL, is there some debrief with a professor concerning what's important for you to know in clinical situations? It seems like a regular lecture, perhaps question session, would be beneficial after having done your own research into each topic.

 

I'm a bit worried about only having fellow students to work with. We'll have a lot of bright students in the class, but we're not doctors. We have tutors in PBL sessions, but how guided are these sessions?

 

Aren't there also "large group sessions" every week? I imagine those would be taught by a grown-up Dr? The sense I got from my group leaders at the interview was that these provide some overall direction on the topic, but of course I could be misunderstanding.

[Hockeynut]

Now that I have experienced PBL/Mac first hand, I can vehemently say I would not choose differently if I could go back.

 

Are there days I hate Mac, sure. Days when I feel lost, plenty. Times when I want to beg UofT/Western/Queens for a spot....probably a few.

 

All that said, there are WAY too many days that I find myself counting my blessings to be at Mac. It's hard to describe and comes very differently to each person, but the opportunities and collegiality are simply superb. So no, I will stay here and I will never take for granted the opportunity I have been granted.

 

Thanks for the response!

[Hero]

As a 3rd year at Mac i'll just add what my experience with PBL was - I came from an really traditional undergrad and did really really well with the didactic style of teaching/learning (well, enough to get into med school!) and so I was really worried about PBL at Mac, esp since I am the opposite of self-motivated. I found that the PBL process of looking up the answers to the objectives and discussing them with your group actually helped me learn everything and remember it, which is different from undergrad since I didn't remember a thing months later!!

 

There is some direction as to what you need to learn, the cases come with some suggested/ obvious objectives and the tutors also have a guide as to what we should be covering in the tutorial so they will fill in the gaps where possible. The cases at Mac have taken years to develop and have many nuances in them which make sure you cover the larger topic as well as small details which may be important.

 

PBL isn't for everyone, but I think if you can make it work for you, it can be really great.

[TO Docta]

As a 3rd year at Mac i'll just add what my experience with PBL was - I came from an really traditional undergrad and did really really well with the didactic style of teaching/learning (well, enough to get into med school!) and so I was really worried about PBL at Mac, esp since I am the opposite of self-motivated. I found that the PBL process of looking up the answers to the objectives and discussing them with your group actually helped me learn everything and remember it, which is different from undergrad since I didn't remember a thing months later!!

 

There is some direction as to what you need to learn, the cases come with some suggested/ obvious objectives and the tutors also have a guide as to what we should be covering in the tutorial so they will fill in the gaps where possible. The cases at Mac have taken years to develop and have many nuances in them which make sure you cover the larger topic as well as small details which may be important.

 

PBL isn't for everyone, but I think if you can make it work for you, it can be really great.

 

Did you ever feel, while in clerkship, that your background from preclerkship was lacking, especially when you did electives at other schools compared with students from other schools? Because if there's a criticism that sticks out about Mac is that some people feel clerks don't come in well prepared.

[Hero]

Did you ever feel, while in clerkship, that your background from preclerkship was lacking, especially when you did electives at other schools compared with students from other schools? Because if there's a criticism that sticks out about Mac is that some people feel clerks don't come in well prepared.

 

I think that the difference between Mac students and other schools is that many of us do electives in clerkship before our core rotation which is probably where a lot of the discrepancy lies between our clerks and others in terms of making an impression. On the other hand I received many comments on elective on the fact that I hadn't done my core rotation and was still a good clerk. I do think preclerkship prepares you well but its also about how far you want to take your learning and how much work you put into it during clerkship. A lot of what makes you a good clerk in clerkship is not knowledge - its the ability to adapt and know how to navigate the system to get the best for your patient. I think Mac's preclerkship really helps you adapt to new situations and know which resources to use to find answers to clinical problems.

 

There are some areas at Mac in which we are weaker than others e.g. ENT/Ophtho/Derm but every school has their strengths/weaknesses! Overall, I didn't feel as though I was significantly different from other clerks or wasn't able to make a good impression on elective

[holiday1001]

another factor- some students (including myself) do our "post-MF4" electives on clerkship-like electives. for example two I think that will help me are GI and CTU.. Hero can you comment on how much those will help, especially if I have to do a CTU elective before the core rotation?

[Hero]

I think CTU will help a lot, even though there is a lot of time between MF4 and when you do your core rotations, getting yourself oriented to how the team works, writing notes, doing consults etc can really put you ahead of the game since you're not trying to learn that stuff and be impressive on your clerkship electives. Just be prepared to be more than a little lost on CTU esp since you'll be with experienced clerks and you haven't done MF5 but also know that its ok.

In addition if you end up having the same staff on your core, or arranging another elective with that staff later in clerkship it can help to show them how you have progressed and you can get a good letter out of that. If you intend on applying to IM it can also just help you get to know more residents who can vouch for you or help you find research projects etc. Post-MF4 the main skill I learned was dictating which was really helpful and luckily my first clerkship elective (GI) taught me everything else, so try to pick up these clerkship basics and then you can focus your efforts on more important things when you're on elective or on your core.

[doc_someday]

I would be curious to know what the student population is like at Mac compared to other medical schools, given that Mac does not require any science prerequisite courses and only requires VR on the MCAT. I imagine it is not feasible to answer this question given that students (generally) only attend one medical school and thus cannot compare between two student bodies. I just think Mac would have a very diverse group compared to say, UBC, which requires upper-level science classes and all MCAT sections.

 

In addition, I'm not entirely sure what CASPer tests, but I imagine Mac to have a strong student body with regards to critical thinking and problem solving skills given that students must have a high CASPer score to advance to interview.

[Big Bird]

Do we ever end up finding out how we did on Casper and the MMI? Aside from potential acceptance, that is. It would be a good learning experience to see what the evaluators noted about you.

[123izme]

Do we ever end up finding out how we did on Casper and the MMI? Aside from potential acceptance, that is. It would be a good learning experience to see what the evaluators noted about you.

 

No we don't

[Big Bird]

No we don't

 

I hear some Queens students saying how they later found out that they bombed a station (/got a zero, did not answer the question). In context it seemed like they found out after getting in. What's this all about?

[Dr.Henderson]

I hear some Queens students saying how they later found out that they bombed a station (/got a zero, did not answer the question). In context it seemed like they found out after getting in. What's this all about?

 

I think you misunderstood what many of us have said- that we FELT as though we bombed a station and still gained admission. No one finds out anything about their pre or post interview assessments.

[Big Bird]

I think you misunderstood what many of us have said- that we FELT as though we bombed a station and still gained admission. No one finds out anything about their pre or post interview assessments.

 

It was probably just wishful thinking.

[trojjanhorse]

I think you misunderstood what many of us have said- that we FELT as though we bombed a station and still gained admission. No one finds out anything about their pre or post interview assessments.

 

Dr. Henderson is like a Queen's ninja. Whenever there is a queen question or statement that needs verification, he SOMEHOW finds the thread despite not being in the Queen's subforum.

[lwu018]

Dr. Henderson is like a Queen's ninja. Whenever there is a queen question or statement that needs verification, he SOMEHOW finds the thread despite not being in the Queen's subforum.

 

Haha, one could consider him the King of Queens Honestly though, I view him as the guru of Queens subforum, much like I view Real Beef as the guru of NOSM's and rmorelan of Western's (although he's more of a leader for the entire board). Those 3 always provide very insightful and helpful responses to inquiries or comments related to their schools and do a phenomenal job as representatives overall. I feel really lucky that I have had the opportunity to meet 2 out of those 3 in person so far Perhaps, one day I'll randomly run into rmorelan in the streets of Ottawa without realizing it