Returning to Undergrad as Non-Degree and PT Admissions

[al3x]

I graduated with 20 Full credits from YorkU with a cGPA of 3.3 and last 10 course GPA of 3.4 and applied to UofT, McMaster and Queens. I did not get into any of the 3 schools and I've currently applied as a Non-Degree student at YorkU to boost my GPA.

 

I only recently found out that once I graduated, the GPA for my first degree is locked to the above number I mentioned. Now, I am uncertain how the marks for any non-degree courses will affect my GPA and my chance of admission.

 

I've only considered Ontario for PT, but I can consider expanding to Canada if there's a higher likelihood for acceptance.

 

Could someone help me clarify these topics. I'm basically at an impasse right now regarding how to proceed/where to go.

[dabby]

I took non-degree courses after graduation/outside of my degree and they were included in the 20 half credit sGPA calculation by ORPAS... I think they do it by course date for determining "most recent", and if they only need a few marks from the same term, I believe they take it in order of highest to lowest mark.

[al3x]

Ok, I am a little uncertain of what you mean. This is my grade breakdown: (3 is a half course, 6 is a full course)

 

Wgt GRD /9.0 /4.0 ideally

6 A 8 3.8 3.8

3 A 8 3.8 3.8

3 A 8 3.8 3.8

3 B+ 7 3.3 3.3

3 A 8 3.8 3.8

3 A+ 9 4 4

3 A 8 3.8 3.8

3 A 8 3.8 3.8

3 B 6 3 3

3 B+ 7 3.3 3.3

3 B+ 7 3.3 3.3

3 A 8 3.8 3.8

3 B 7 3 3

3 A 8 3.8 3.8

3 C+ 5 2.3 3.8 (Hypothetical)

3 C+ 5 2.3 3.8 (hypothetical)

3 B 6 3 3.8 (hypothetical)

3 B+ 7 3.3 3.8 (hypothetical)

3 B 6 3.3 3.8 (hypothetical)

60 7.15 3.39 3.64

 

Right now I have a ~3.39 sGPA. My degree is done. If I return as a non degree, what I am trying to do is replace the oldest courses (at the bottom of the chart) that I have taken and not done well in. If I take, say another 6 half courses this upcoming year and they count towards my previous GPA, (assuming I get A's) I'll be sitting at a ~3.64 GPA (this is the "ideally" column, replacing the first 6 courses with a 3.8).

 

However, if they do not count towards my degree and these courses are a GPA of their own then I'll be sitting at a 3.4 GPA (of the 20 half courses) + 3.8 (hypothetical GPA of the 6 courses that I'll be taking) /divided by 2. In this example, improving my degree GPA would be very difficult since I am not replacing anything, but actually averaging the two GPAs and any A's I get would contribute minimally to GPA increases?

[dabby]

Well, your overall cGPA (cumulative) will still include the original courses plus the new ones. Your sGPA (sub) as calculated by ORPAS for admissions will only include your last 20 half credits and will bump the oldest courses out. My non-degree courses replaced degree courses because I took them more recently. Many/most of the universities use the sub GPA to make admission decisions, though some may look at cGPA.

 

You can't 'erase' the poor grades from your transcript, even if you are retaking the same course. But if you do enough courses (looks like you need 6) then those oldest 6 courses will not be included in sub GPA, which is what you really need to worry about since that is what schools look at over cumulative GPA. I had a D- in first year, which ruins my cGPA, but wasn't taken into consideration as it was long enough ago to not be included in the subGPA.

[monkeykong]

Hey guys, I also have a question about non-degree students. I am considering going back for a 5th and maybe 6th year if needed and am wondering, do the courses we take to upgrade our gpa have to be upper year courses (3rd/4th year level)? or will they count any level courses?

[Pink Tulip]

They count any level of courses. I'm not sure how pleased they would be to see all junior levels courses, but it might not affect their decisions.

[al3x]

Ok that's good to hear.

 

But basically my concern is:

 

I'm pretty much putting all my eggs in one basket, so to speak, by returning to take 6 half courses (6X$700-800=$4200-$4800) just to apply for Queen's PT with a hypothetical GPA of 3.65. McMaster's is 3.77 and UofT didn't even tell me what their cut off was.

 

So if I don't get into queens, then what? Could anyone offer some counselling/advice? Any schools outside of Ontario have cutoffs <3.65?

 

Thank you.

[try]

Relying on only Queen's is very risky. While they do consider applicants with lower GPA's, overall, they are more selective than the other schools. If PT is really what you want to do there is always a way. DYC in Buffalo offers a great program. If you take the prerequisites for their program this year, you could almost guarantee yourself an acceptance for next year. This way you avoid investing so much in Queen's and having a much slimmer chance. Last year I applied to a physio program at UCD in Ireland in June and was accepted to start in September so you could look into that school if you want to start asap.

[Pink Tulip]

I would look internationally as well. There is a chance for McGill if your cumGPA is around 3.5, otherwise look into the States, Australia, Ireland, UK etc. it will be much more expensive in the long run because of licensing but you could still be a PT.

[al3x]

Relying on only Queen's is very risky. While they do consider applicants with lower GPA's, overall, they are more selective than the other schools. If PT is really what you want to do there is always a way. DYC in Buffalo offers a great program. If you take the prerequisites for their program this year, you could almost guarantee yourself an acceptance for next year. This way you avoid investing so much in Queen's and having a much slimmer chance. Last year I applied to a physio program at UCD in Ireland in June and was accepted to start in September so you could look into that school if you want to start asap.

 

I agree, that's why I'm a little worried. The only problem with universities outside of Canada is the ridiculous fees. However, I do have a EU passport so would this mean I can pay the local tuition fees rather than the international?

 

Also, these are the requirements of UCD:

 

Clinical Human Anatomy 10 ECTS, Applied Human

Anatomy 5 ECTS, Human Physiology 10 ECTS,

Exercise Science 10 ECTS, Applied Physics 5 ECTS,

Chemistry-Biochemistry 5 ECTS, Applied Human

Biomechanics 5 ECTS, Behavioural Sciences 10 ECTS,

Research Methods and Statistics 5 ECTS.

 

I am unsure what they mean by clinical human anatomy and applied human anatomy? I have taken a half credit 2nd year course at york for Advanced Human Anatomy.

 

PS: Having applied to PT at Queen's once, would it mean that I'm on their waitlist and therefore have a higher likelihood of getting in, if I apply again?

 

Thank you.

[dabby]

^ Do you have EU citizenship then? A friend of mine is doing a masters in Denmark, and she has EU citizenship (Portugal) and actually doesn't have to pay ANYTHING because she is an EU citizen and schooling is government funded.

[MazzyMaz]

Relying on only Queen's is very risky. While they do consider applicants with lower GPA's, overall, they are more selective than the other schools. If PT is really what you want to do there is always a way. DYC in Buffalo offers a great program. If you take the prerequisites for their program this year, you could almost guarantee yourself an acceptance for next year. This way you avoid investing so much in Queen's and having a much slimmer chance. Last year I applied to a physio program at UCD in Ireland in June and was accepted to start in September so you could look into that school if you want to start asap.

 

Did you end up going to UCD? If so, how is it?

[try]

I agree, that's why I'm a little worried. The only problem with universities outside of Canada is the ridiculous fees. However, I do have a EU passport so would this mean I can pay the local tuition fees rather than the international?

 

Also, these are the requirements of UCD:

 

Clinical Human Anatomy 10 ECTS, Applied Human

Anatomy 5 ECTS, Human Physiology 10 ECTS,

Exercise Science 10 ECTS, Applied Physics 5 ECTS,

Chemistry-Biochemistry 5 ECTS, Applied Human

Biomechanics 5 ECTS, Behavioural Sciences 10 ECTS,

Research Methods and Statistics 5 ECTS.

 

I am unsure what they mean by clinical human anatomy and applied human anatomy? I have taken a half credit 2nd year course at york for Advanced Human Anatomy.

 

PS: Having applied to PT at Queen's once, would it mean that I'm on their waitlist and therefore have a higher likelihood of getting in, if I apply again?

 

Thank you.

 

I would definitely look into the possibility of paying local fees with an EU passport! I was accepted at UCD without the chem-biochem prerequ. I e-mailed them about it and the admissions person encouraged me to apply. You also have to write a personal statement so they can really get to know you. I have a friend who is in the program now and she loves it. I think fees were 20000 euros per year. I would say its better to pay that than to spend a ton of money on upgrading to have a gpa that remains below the cutoff. You can always apply and make your decision in July when acceptances go out (as I did).

 

Queen's does not hold applications from year to year. However, if your name stands out, your persistence might encourage them to accept you!

 

Best of luck!

[SeaGal]

I agree, that's why I'm a little worried. The only problem with universities outside of Canada is the ridiculous fees. However, I do have a EU passport so would this mean I can pay the local tuition fees rather than the international?

 

Also, these are the requirements of UCD:

 

Clinical Human Anatomy 10 ECTS, Applied Human

Anatomy 5 ECTS, Human Physiology 10 ECTS,

Exercise Science 10 ECTS, Applied Physics 5 ECTS,

Chemistry-Biochemistry 5 ECTS, Applied Human

Biomechanics 5 ECTS, Behavioural Sciences 10 ECTS,

Research Methods and Statistics 5 ECTS.

 

I am unsure what they mean by clinical human anatomy and applied human anatomy? I have taken a half credit 2nd year course at york for Advanced Human Anatomy.

 

PS: Having applied to PT at Queen's once, would it mean that I'm on their waitlist and therefore have a higher likelihood of getting in, if I apply again?

 

Thank you.

 

To my understanding you need to have lived in an EU country for 3 consecutive years AND hold an EU passport to pay domestic fees.

 

Also every application period starts fresh however if you're still competitive with next years applicants I've been told by people on admissions committees that they do take second round applicants into consideration. It's not a guarantee though and if the gpa goes up and yours hasn't then they won't. I would focus on taking more courses to boost your gpa and volunteering. I also attended a webinar for the CAOT and the presenter was an instructor at queens. Not sure if it helped but can't hurt. I don't know if PT has a similar organization you could look into for that?

[try]

Did you end up going to UCD? If so, how is it?

 

It was the toughest decision that I ever had to make but I ended up declining the offer. I took several courses and brought my gpa up from 3.61 to 3.74. I worked very hard working and volunteering and changed the approach of my queens essay and thank goodness it landed me a spot in Queens PT. I do have a friend there who speaks highly about it. It's an amazing school with a really good PT program!!

[MazzyMaz]

Congrats on getting into Queens! 3.61 is my current GPA so I am working towards increasing it ASAP!