Okay to say that you wouldn't perform an abortion?

[Guest MicroMaster]

From some ECs on my application, it is evident that I am a religious individual. I am predicting a question on abortion, to which my answer will reflect the pro-choice side, as that is what has been decided by this country's people. I am however, pro-life. Wondering if I will be sunk at an interview if my very understanding, open, pro-choice-sort answer ends with "but I would never put myself in the position where I had to perform the procedure myself." I know it would be safe to leave this part out, but I want to show that I have some integrity and can back up my beliefs too.

 

Thanks for your input

[Guest pappy mckeys]

I personally feel knowing your own values is paramount to ensuring they don't infringe on your patient's care. Knowing you would not perform abortions but being accepting of you patient's pro-choice values will still enable you to help your patient (i.e. via appropriate referral and follow-up care). I think the key to answering this question is not to impose your belief system on the patient. Although I have no experience with the interview process, I believe the interviewers realize that all candidates come from different backgrounds and belief systems. I think they're looking for how your background will help make you a safe, compassionate, competent, and client-centered physician. Just my two cents as I hope for an interview, good luck!

[Guest ploughboy]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hash: SHA1

 

 

Hey there,

 

I wouldn't worry about appearing too religious on your application. At UWO there are Christian, Muslim and Jewish Medical Student clubs. I coulda sworn there was a Hindu Meds club too, but I must be thinking of the general UWO Hindu Student Association. There are very religious people, people who describe themselves as spiritual but not religious, and people who are strongly opposed to religion. Kinda like general Canadian society, in fact. I would imagine that other schools are similar.

 

We also have both a pro-life and a pro-choice student club, with strongly-held beliefs on both sides. I don't know if you would get an interview question on abortion, simply because it is such a hot-button issue for a lot of people. But if you do, I think your approach to the answer is the right one. The advice I've always been given regarding how to answer any moral/ethical questions in interviews is this: Acknowledge that there are two sides to the issue, briefly outline reasons for the view that you *don't* hold, outline the reasons for believing what you believe, and then stick to your guns when the inevitable "what if..." follow-up questions get thrown at you. This will show that you can appreciate both sides of the issue but are also willing to stand up for what you believe in. For any moral/ethical question, the interviewers are much more interested in *how* you answer the question than the particular details of your answer.

 

The CMA has a policy on induced abortion(1), which you might want to have a look at as part of your interview preparation. It says a lot of things, but here are some points which appear applicable to your situation:

 

"A physician should not be compelled to participate in the termination of a pregnancy."

 

"A physician whose moral or religious beliefs prevent him or her from recommending or performing an abortion should inform the patient of this so that she may consult another physician."

 

"No discrimination should be directed against doctors who do not perform or assist at induced abortions. Respect for the right of personal decision in this area must be stressed, particularly for doctors training in obstetrics and gynecology, and anesthesia."

 

It has always been my understanding, based on this and some other things, that a medical student would not be required to participate in or observe an abortion if it conflicted with his/her religious or moral beliefs.

 

Having said that, there was a student at U Manitoba a couple of years ago who failed his Ob/Gyn clerkship rotation, and thus was faced with not receiving his degree, due to a conflict with his preceptors over abortion(2). I only know what I read in the news, but it seems that the issue was that he would not even provide a referral to another physician which, rightly or wrongly, did not meet the standard of care expected of him. If memory serves, after several appeals he eventually received his MD.

 

Hope this helps. Good luck with interviews!

 

pb

 

 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (FreeBSD)

 

iD8DBQFDxIRh/HNgbK3bC2wRApHkAKCWhDDgTRvPgTVEIDJyHQ3OqaavvACffA52

5I0igLQpE8x44THTSb4p5P8=

=nm8G

-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

 

 

 

(1) CMA Policy on Abortion

(2) Pro-life medical student still fighting to graduate - The Manitoban

[Guest Jochi1543]

"A physician whose moral or religious beliefs prevent him or her from recommending or performing an abortion should inform the patient of this so that she may consult another physician."

 

I have to say that with all the Plan B (emergency contraception) drama going on in the States constantly, this doesn't comfort me much. While I am lucky enough to live in a liberal state where getting appropriate care is not a problem, I have heard many a story from somewhere down in Alabama or Louisiana where women can't get EC. They will go to their pharmacist, and he will refuse to fill in the prescription based on "his beliefs" and send them to another pharmacist, who, in a semi-rural area, is likely to be an hour's drive away. Then, the second pharmacist will refuse to fill in the prescription as well and yet again refer her to a third one, since they are required to. The person then has to drive several more hours, just to encounter the same treatment - or lack thereof, I should say. Is this really fair to the patient? I don't believe so. Of course, with EC we have a rigid time limit, but it doesn't mean that an abortion patient in a rural area should have to take days off work, drive hundreds of miles, etc to get the care she wants and deserves - just because her doctor won't give it to her. In fact, I personally think that if a woman is denied EC, abortion, etc, she should reserve the right to sue the physician/pharmacist for child support. I don't think anybody "enjoys" seeing or performing abortions per se, but in the end, childbirth and child-rearing is one area where the doctor cannot oppose the patient's decision - it's not like the patient is objecting to some complicated medical procedure which they don't completely understand, or another case when the physician should be given the ultimate authority.

[Guest satsumargirl]

Hey...I totally agree with Jochi that all women should have reasonable access to these services by qualified individals.

 

I understand that professionals have the right to refuse procedures that conflict with their religious beliefs...but I personally struggle a bit with that concept at times. I just don`t find it very patient focussed. I guess I just don`t think that someone's religious beliefs should negatively impact patient care. But that is a debate that could go on for pages and pages.

 

As to whether or not you need to hide your pro-life point of view in an interview, I would say not. There are plenty of religious people in med school and you are certainly allowed to have your own point of view. I guess though it would be important to point out that you would refer the person to someone who could and would perform the procedure. And that you understood that patient is not coming to you asking for your moral judgement in the matter and that you respect the patient's choice. (provided you actually feel that way...would not encourage anyone to outright lie in their interview)

 

And how to perform an abortion is still an important skill to be learned I think. What if an MD needs to perform an emergency abortion to save the mother....how would that MD explain to his patient that he never learned that skill.

 

Below is a link to the college of physicians and surgeons of Ontario. It is a document you can download and there is a section on physician responsibilities. I didn`t read it so I don`t know what exactly is in it...but maybe there will be some helpful info.

 

www.cpso.on.ca/Publications/abortion.htm

[Guest blinknoodle]

Personally, I suggest being honest. If you are pro-life, be truthful, just as if you were pro-choice. There are medical students and physicians who are openly pro-life - my student colleague has said repeatedly that they will not perform nor refer for abortions, emergency contraception and birth control. As outlined nicely in earlier posts, know your responsibilities as a physician and how you plan to address them should they contravene your personal beliefs (or not put yourself in that situation).

[Guest Jochi1543]

my student colleague has said repeatedly that they will not perform nor refer for abortions, emergency contraception and birth control.

 

Would it be ok for me to say that my beliefs prevent me from treating Christians because they like to deny me my rights?

[Guest DancingDoc]

Why not be honest about not wanting to perform abortions? There are very good reason for that belief. Whether they are right or not I am not going to debate, but people who hold that belief often do so because as a doctor they believe in the sanctity of life. As a doctor you are to save lives not kill, and if you believe a fetus is a person then you would believe performing an abortion is essentially murder.

 

As someone else said, provided this is your actual view on it, as long as you realize that not everyone agrees with this belief and you are willing to understand that many situations often demand an abortion (extreme example is a rape victim)meaning you are willing to refer a patient elsewhere where their needs can be meet (without requiring you do something you would not be comfortable doing). Personally if I needed/wanted an abortion I would not want a doctor to perform it on me if they were uncomfortable doing so, I would rather they refer me elsewhere and would appreciate their reasoning (i.e. not wanting to end my imaginary fetus' life who has voice on the matter). Seeing both sides of a controversial subject like abortion shows maturity, and being able to stand your ground on the side you believe in is just as important. So my measly opinion is go for it! Good luck at your interviews

(sorry for the rambles again, I really am procrastinating tonight!! lol)

[Guest moo]

The last time I checked, Canada is still a free society. You're free to believe whatever you want. If you believe that abortion is akin to murder, that's your view. Other people believe that abortion amounts to women's rights. I don't think people can say for sure which view is the "correct" view, but certainly pro-choice is the "politically correct" view. As an interviewer for my med school, I, first of all, would never ask such a controversial question but even if I did, I would not judge you based on what side you take. Just like people are proud to be gay, people should be proud to be religious and Christian.

 

Disclaimer: I am not very religious nor do I have a really strong opinion on the abortion debate but other interviewers might be biased, so you may want to tread carefully when dealing with them.

[Guest cheech10]

my student colleague has said repeatedly that they will not perform nor refer for abortions

 

However

 

"A physician whose moral or religious beliefs prevent him or her from recommending or performing an abortion should inform the patient of this so that she may consult another physician."

 

I think not referring would violate standard of care and the CMA position, and they would probably be liable if the patient sought damages. They are free to counsel the patient against abortion or suggest other options, but I think in the end you need to refer if the patient wishes.

[Guest Ollie]

I think not referring would violate standard of care and the CMA position, and they would probably be liable if the patient sought damages. They are free to counsel the patient against abortion or suggest other options, but I think in the end you need to refer if the patient wishes.

 

The CMA position actually does not require referral. It's a bit of a grey area, but essentially it comes down to that you don't have to refer but you cannot abandon your patient. You have to tell them that you cannot be involved in their decision to get an abortion because of your personal beliefs and that they will need to go elsewhere. Whether or not you help them contact another physician is up to how strongly you feel. I heare one physician describe it as "I can't be a link in the chain to her getting an abortion." Now that's all fine and well if you are in an urban area, but when it's a rural community or a young, vulnerable patient, that's another story. But anyways.... I don't think that you can counsel a patient against abortion for your own reasons (just as you can't counsel a patients for any other treatment/procedure for your own reasons). You need to present her with all options in an unbiased way. If you can't do that then you shouldn't be counselling her.

 

But this has gotten a little off topic. Bottom line is that it's OK to say that you won't perform an abortion, but this is unlikely to arise during an interview.

[Guest treehuggingbiologist]

Bottom line is that it's OK to say that you won't perform an abortion, but this is unlikely to arise during an interview.

 

I'd agree. And if it did come up, state your beliefs simply and plainly (without feeling as though you need to justify them) and then tell them that these beliefs would not affect how you would treat the patient, and if they wanted an abortion, you would recommend them to another doctor who would be more comfortable with the procedure.

[Guest Paulchemguy]

Oh lol, then I was stupid enough to bring abortion issue up myself during the interview. How stupid can I get..... argh

[Guest grandmellon]

Hahaha... I did the same thing last year! :rollin

Why do we put ourselves in sticky situations like that sometimes?

 

I would like to say that you stand firm in what you believe and state your reasons for doing so.

GM