Factors in your ultimate decision of which school to attend

[Guest studentz]

There are a million threads on this board starting with "Why is ___ better than other schools?" Everyone always says it's a personal decision, a statement I agree with. I though it would be interesting to see how people are comparing the schools they're in the running for so I'll go first. We can clear up any misconceptions or questions people may have about aspects of programs too.

 

The following are not listed in order of preference.

 

Toronto

Pros

- The best hospital system. More stuff happens here than anywhere else in the country. Sick Kids.

- Students. Seriously. Along with those at Manitoba, they were the most laid back at the interview social and weren't trying to convince me that the school wasn't like ____. I've figured out that most of the people propagating UofT "stereotypes" don't go to UofT med.

- Rep.

- Residency factor. If the rest of the UofT programs are like the Peds program, the vast majority of residents went to UofT med

- Early clinical component

- Toronto. I LOVE the city and it's close to home.

- strong basic and clinical research in many areas

- frequent exams

- no mandatory rural component

- clinical teaching centre (is this only for the UHN academy?)

- academy structure breaks down a large class

 

Cons

- H/P/F as opposed to P/F

- Departmental curriculum (vs system based). I heard the group sessions and cases tie things together though.

- Med students low on the food chain

- Cost of living downtown

- Elective schedule. I think there are only 12 weeks before CARMS and they are in 6 week blocks (some electives I'm interested in are 4 weeks and I don't know if the remaining two are enough for a good experience at another rotation). I don't know what summer's like between 3rd and fourth year, and if there's time to squeeze one in then. Is your rotation schedule randomly assigned and can you switch if you have legit reasons?

- mandatory emerg rotation; I know I'm not going to do this and I would prefer it to part of a list of selectives.

- possibility of having to travel to Sunnybrook.

 

Queen's

Pros

- Small size

- Cool curriculum

- Observerships

- P/F??? Can't remember.

- clinical skills building and the early clinical skills instruction

 

Cons

- Kingston; bus tour spent more time at RMC than anywhere else

- Small, old hospital; trapped between major centres like Mtl., Ottawa and Toronto

- Elective schedule

- Exam schedule

 

Western

Pros

- P/F

- System-based curriculum

- Elective schedule

- very strong clerkship & big hospitals

- research in areas I'm interested in

- nice campus with lots of stuff to do

- tell you if you're getting $$ with the admission letter

- provides a change of scenery while still being close to home

 

Cons

- Windsor component. Some have said that you get to do a lot, but I'm concerned about the logistics of going to a new location for a few months or a year (i.e. what happens to my place in London, my stuff etc.) and how well recognized the writers of my clerkship evaluations will be.

- mandatory rural component

- all that post-CARMS stuff. Some optional stuff that could be "traded" for another elective would be nice.

- Disorganization in the curriculum?

- Peds program isn't the best and the new CHWO facility won't while I'm there

- Not with the school, but I'll honestly go insane if I hear another Western student tell me how "chill" the atmosphere is. This is med school, hard work is expected. Western is a great school, stop trying to define the program in opposition to Toronto.

 

 

Manitoba

Pros

- small size

- good curriculum

- very comprehensive hospitals

- strong clerkship

- Winnipeg's OK; people are really nice

- Brody Centre (and the Jessica Alba look-alike that works at Tim Horton's )

- cheap tuition

 

Cons

- far from home, anywhere else really. I'd probably get bored in the city quickly.

- nothing to do around Bannatyne campus, which is in a sketchy area; hospital caf sucks

- far from undergrad campus

- horrible M:F ratio (from the perspective of a hetero male)

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Just a couple of notes about UWO:

 

1) Windsor. . . I think the program is popular enough and the class is big enough that you have very little chance of ending up there if you don't want to.

 

All the clerkship evals are essentially P/F. People did extremely well on their clerkship evals in Windsor.

 

Reference letters. . . you have a point there. Windsor isn't traditionally a big academic center, and the docs there might not be as big 'names' or 'players' nationally.

 

My class is the first to have a serious Windsor component and go through the match.

 

Of the windsor clerks that come quickly to mind, I can remember the following matches (NOTE THAT I HAVE NOT INCLUDED ANY NAMES TO PROTECT CONFIDENTIALITY):

 

Ottawa Peds (very competitive program - usually most competitive of peds programs)

UWO Gen Surg (very competitive gen surg program)

U of A Internal Med (very strong and competitive IM program)

U of T Obs/gyn (competitive obs/gyn program)

 

I noted these matches as I know all of these programs were ranked at least in the top 2 for the respective applicants (and all were the #1 specialty for applicants), if not top program these people were ranking.

 

From this, apparently UWO clerks were NOT negatively affected by going to Windsor when it came to CaRMS.

 

2) Mandatory Rural rotation - I think you won't find this a disadvantage. Most people do their 4 weeks in their 6 week family medicine block - which is an especially appealing option if you aren't that interested in family medicine as you can do a lot of emerg, internal. . . and maybe even some anaesthesia and general surgery! I was 1st assist on lap cholecystectomies and anterior resections on one of my family electives.

 

If you really hate being in a small town, two options for you: one, choose a town close to London where you can commute everyday (Newbury, Exeter.) Or, if you're a pistons or NFL fan, select Windsor. . . for some reason it counts as 'rural,' and you can catch events in Detroit.

 

3) really, I think our 3rd and 4th year curriculum is our greatest strength. The "transition year period" post CaRMS isn't as useful as electives would be, but it's nice to have nothing more than roughly 15 hrs of class while you're spending your last months with buddies AND ESPECIALLY while your sorting out stuff for residency like buying a house, completing paperwork, etc as well as studying for the licensing exam.

 

I can't imagine doing all of that stuff while I was actually still doing rotations!!

 

4) 'Chill'? lol - I feel old. . . I ain't never heard no UWO med student refer to the place as 'chill' but then again I wasn't around for interviews the last two years.

 

After all, UWO medicine is a med school with MED STUDENTS. . . 'obsessive-compulsive' is probably more accurate than 'chill'. . . particularly noting how many of my classmates are freaking out about an exam* (almost) nobody from UWO ever fails. . .

 

Other than that, pretty good assessment of UWO's strengths and weaknesses.

 

IN DEFENCE OF U OF T. . . one of my regrets about UWO is that there wasn't MORE emerg medicine. . . it really is one of the best core teaching blocks, even if you aren't interested in classical emergency medicine! It really is the best block for learning diagnosis (on surg and medicine often the diagnosis is already given to you!) and seeing problems from ALL fields of med. . . gyne, medicine, psych, surgery (and if you're in a small center you also get Peds and Obs.)

 

* Pt 1 of the licensing exam. Typically very few UWO students fail this. . . so I'd guess we haven't been TOO 'chill'!

[Guest tim23]

I'm in the same postion, went for a bunch of interviews trying to sort it all out. Here's what I've got to add...

 

Toronto:

Pros

-I have to reiterate about the students cuz everyone says they are competitive and they weren't

-networking oppurtunities, U of T overall seems to have the best faculty and doing undergrad their gives you a chance to meet/observership type stuff right from the start, big advantage if you want to do residency here

-lots of stuff to do in TO, I'm not from there and downtown was way nicer then I had been told (wish the Raps had a better team though!)

-traditional learning style, this may be a con for some but personally I wouldn't be caught dead in a Mac type learning environment, just not my style.

 

Cons

-$$$

-again, $$$

-the classrooms seemed really old and run-down

 

McGill:

Pros

-Montreal is one of the coolest cities to live in Canada

-good rep.

-more oppurtunities if you want to go the US route (not me)

-Montreal/McGill cheap big city and low tuition

-still 2nd highest funded med school in Canada, pretty good research oppurtunities, but not U of T.

 

Cons

-hospitals really old

-general sense that school is underfunded compared to the past

-class seemed more dispersed with CEGEP studetns thrown in

-not as many OOP as other schools

-students just didn't seem as friendly/chill as some other schools

 

Queens:

Pros

-see 1st post, agree with them all

-another nice class, seemed to be pretty close knit as well

 

Cons

-Kingston is really small, didn't seem to have much culture (no offense Kingston people I'm just giving an honest opinion)

-I've heard that there hospital isn't big enough for the electives

-Mandatory rural component I think

-not much research funding lowest out of these 5 (about 75 million I think)

-to be fair, tuition here is expensive too

 

Ottawa:

Pros

-imbetween a Queen's and U of T/McGill in size, research oppurtunities, city etc. kinda gives you the best of both

-nice facilities, with more construction on the way

-all the hook ups that go along with being in the capital

-good residency matching

 

Cons

-students didn't put much effort into interview weekend, dodn't really know what that says about the school but I'll list it as a con

-school is seperate from downtown campus

-lower tuition then other Ont schools but still high

-really hard to get between hospitals with public transport

 

Manitoba

Pros

-smallest class out of the five

-good residency matching

-flagship school of the province, gets decent research funding/facilities a bit of everything

-high thouroughput hospital right next door

-really cheap tuition, lowest cost of living of any major city in Canada (I had 2 friends from out of town get a pimped out double apt for like $750 a month-for OOP people this is a much bigger factor then you would have initially realized, with your line of credit you can live like a king in wpg )

-Winnipeg grows on you, it has a lot to do for a city of its size cuz its the only major centre around

-its home for me

 

Cons

-really cold winters

-old fashioned admissions policies (my pet peeve)

-bad public transportation system

-there are some really seedy areas of Winnipeg

-oh yeah about the M/F ratio, its like 3:1 but that may have been a one year anomily, plus Winnipeg is well known for having really hot women.

 

One more thing, I found U of O and U of M are VERY similar type schools. (other than the french part)

[Guest peachy]

Just some quick responses to the some of the questions you asked about U of T.

 

Yes, the medical education area where you had your interview is for WB (the UHN-based academy) students. The other academies also have medical education departments at the hospitals, with a computer, a lounge, and classrooms, but the ones I've seen aren't as nice as WB.

 

3rd/4th year rotations are assigned through a matching process, where students choose their preferred academy and rotation. Then there's a "swap" period where people trade around. I have heard that there's enough choice that everybody pretty much gets something that they're happy with, but one of the upper-year students would know better.

 

About the Sunnybrook thing, I know it's something that everybody seems to worry about, but I've never heard a PB'er (PB is the academy of Sunnybrook/Women's) complain about it. Someone from PB will have to give you the whole story, but I hear lots of good things about it: Sunnybrook's close to home for lots of people who live up North, there's a shuttle that goes directly to and from Women's, it's a smaller academy than WB is, and a portion of your academy-based classes will be at Women's anyways, which is really close.

 

LOL about the classrooms, Tim. Are the classrooms in MSB the rooms you think are run-down?

[Guest 0T6]

UWOMED.. everytime you update you get my hopes up that there's a new post.. cmon you've gotta give me something to procrastinate with

 

Toronto

Pros

- Everything said above

- Diverse student body

- It's home, where I'm doing undergrad

- Sick Kids, my 2nd home

- Diversity in research opportunities, observerships

- Won't have to pay rent (live at home)

- Will let me defer and finish up the degree if I feel like it

 

Cons

- It's home LOL a change of scenery would be nice

- If some of the trends in undergrad continue (which I hear they don't), that would be a con

- Being at the bottom of a ladder with so many rungs

- High tuition, but I think the live at home evens it out

- No excitement of adapting to a new school

 

Ottawa

Pros

- Web-based curriculum!

- Laptop, free if your OSAP-eligible

- It'd be cool to be at a bilingual school, force me to learn some french

- CHEO, no sick kids, but it'll do

- Schedule is pretty nice, plenty of afternoons for observerships/whatever

- Their PBL component sounds cool.. get a problem on monday, learn about the systems through the week, then "solve" the problem on friday

- Ottawa's a cool city!

- The school's physically connected to two hospitals.. I imagine that's GREAT in January

- Not the most efficient of public transit systems, apparently

 

Cons

- I don't think they give the option of deferring acceptance

- Interview weekend was disappointing (in terms of events), but I'm not gonna hold that against the school

 

I had my Ottawa interview in early March and right after it Ottawa was at the top of my list, but then interview at Toronto 2 weeks ago and it got back up there. So if I get something good from either of them, I'll be a happy happy man!

[Guest UWOMED2005]

UWOMED.. everytime you update you get my hopes up that there's a new post.. cmon you've gotta give me something to procrastinate with

 

Hey man - give me a break! All I have assigned to do for this weekend is study for the licensing exam. . . which means I'm sitting in front of my books (and computer.)

 

If I'm not procrastinating by logging back into this board to reedit posts for the 108th time, what else am I supposed to do? :rollin :rollin :rollin

[Guest 0T6]

LOL! You could've actually edited it last time

 

(Geez I'm pathetic, *disconnects modem*)

[Guest tim23]

OT6 so its not just me that Ottawa's students did nothing for the interview weekends

 

Tim

[Guest canmic]

Heya,

 

Just some info that I had, might as well pass it along. You mentionned wanting to do peds, so here's a tidbit:

 

If you want to do a peds residency in BC, don't go to UBC.

 

Basically you've got 10 times the chance of getting the residency if you did medschool 'somewhere else'.

[Guest tim23]

are you saying that as a general rule or just for that specific program??

[Guest Procuitto]

Hey Canmic,

 

I don't get it, my friend did her MD at UBC and ended up doing Pediatrics AND got some sort of outstanding pediatric resident award and everything. She now works at Children's Hospital!

 

So I'm not sure what your saying is necessarily so.

 

Congrats on UBC btw.

 

Proscuitto

[Guest marbledust]

If you want to do a peds residency in BC, don't go to UBC.

 

Is there any factual basis for this statement? If you go to the carms site, you can find out how many in-town (UBC) students matched to the peds program over the past few years.

 

Could somebody go look that up? maybe canmic? I am too lazy to do it myself :lol

[Guest TimmyMax]

Hey,

 

Speaking as a current UWO student, I would disagree wholeheartedly with studentz's assertion that the Windsor program and rural component of the UWO medical program are a con- they are a strength, if anything else, unless, of course, you are a total city slicker who can't see the world outside of urban Ontario. In that case, do us all a favour and stay there- leave the rural experience for those of us who actually want to DO stuff (as oppose to "observing"- one of the definite strengths of having satellite campuses and rural elective options)! Even if you are a total city slicker, you can still do electives in such "rural" locations as Mississauga, Milton or Halton Hills, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I would also reason that block disorganization is an issue at most medical schools, and that the reason that such a thing shows up on your list is that the UWO moderators actually have the cajones to bash their own school from time to time in order to deliver the most objective, unbiased portrait of their school possible for the benefit of those applying.

Anyway, I just thought that I'd post my two cents and set the record straight on the perceived cons of the UWO program. Hope that this helps!

 

Best of luck!

Timmy

 

P.S.: The peds rotation in Windsor is second to none! I also heard that the London one is good too, so I have no idea where you are getting this from.

[Guest studentz]

I love the way people make assumptions and rush to defend their school regardless of how legitimate a point is.

 

One, I started this thread for applicants to list their PERSONAL list of factors they are using at the moment. Thus, none of us can comment on the correctness of any other person's list. I have no doubt the clinical training is great in Windsor, otherwise the site wouldn't be used for the core rotations required of every LCME school. But there are logistical issues that I'm concerned about, and which I mentioned above.

 

Second, don't tell me where to go to med school and don't include "us all" (I'm assuming you're referring to the UWO med community) in statements like that. I'm sure a lot of Western students would take exception to a current student speaking on behalf of them telling an applicant who had a great impression of the school to not go there. I'm pretty sure 95% of my family comes from a smaller community than you've ever been to so don't presume to know my personal history and views from a simple post. I've seen things in health care in my family's "home" country that your school tries to expose its students to through it's "Third World elective" (I really hope that's not the official name of it).

[Guest UWOMED2005]

studentz's assertion that the Windsor program and rural component of the UWO medical program are a con- they are a strength, if anything else, unless, of course, you are a total city slicker who can't see the world outside of urban Ontario.

 

Timmymax, isn't Windsor the epitome of Urban Ontario?!?

 

Studentz - I think what Timmymax and myself were trying to address was the fact we have both talked to many Torontonian applicants AND 1st and 2nd year med students who look at the Windsor program, note the 4 hour drive from Yonge and Bloor and lack of a Starbucks in most of these small towns, and dismiss it. When I WAS APPLYING I would have listed the rural components and Windsor as a disadvantage to Western. Having done rural and Windsor rotations, my perspective has TOTALLY changed. And those comments are directed to applicants as a whole as this is a common persepctive. . . my post was not direct specifically at you.

 

BTW - great idea for a thread. It was particularly useful when people were posting strengths and weaknesses as you did first time round.

 

And btw. . . the name of the program isn't "Third World Medicine." It's the 'Medical Electives Overseas Program'!

[Guest canmic]

I'm not saying that UBC isn't good for Peds, at all..

 

But, I know all of the people who do the carms ranking for UBC peds residencies and they really (for some reason, don't ask me why) almost always give higher ranking to people who did med school 'somewhere else'.

 

Also, the dept of peds seems to prefer to hire attendings who did med school and/or residency or a fellowship 'elsewhere'. Many of the docs who do residency at UBC wind up going away for a year for a fellowship because UBC won't hire them until they do...

 

As always, there are exceptions; but they are pretty rare..

 

ps: I have no idea what it's like outside of peds (and the peds subspecialties)

[Guest physiology]

Hello Canmic,

 

Where are you getting your info? I mean, looking at the match list this year from the UBC Class of 2005, there were 2-3 people out of the 120 who matched to UBC pediatrics.

 

There are a lot of factors that influence where a resident ends up, but I think you're basing this entirely on anecdotal evidence that you've accrued here and there. Yes, the person you know may be on the committee, but its' a committee for a reason, and that means there is more than one person on that team making decisions.

 

I mean I've heard that UBC OB/GYN doesn't like taking UBC students, but this year, they took 2 or 3. I mean, there are yearly trends, and many other compounding factors that affect the yearly intake of residents.

 

Also, it's probably true that hospitals prefer fellowships to be done elsewhere, as it gets too "inbred" when a resident does all of his/her training at ONE institution.

[Guest canmic]

Most of my info comes from listening to discussions involving several of the members of the committee, often about several of the other members

 

Yep there were 2 accepted from UBC for this year, but that's 2 out of about 12-15 total.. It isn't impossible to get in (obviously), it's just a lot harder. Of course if you are up near the top of your class and an A1 student, you can pretty much get into whatever residency you aim at (assuming that you did the correct electives/selectives)

 

Take a look at the stats for the other schools in terms of how many of their own grads they accept, also, take a look at which other schools grads got into the UBC residencies..

 

I'm basing my thoughts more on observed biases of the people who choose rather than anecdotal numbers, btw.. They are pretty obvious about what they are looking for.

 

I discussed this a bit more today and was told that one of the big factors has to do with electives/selectives, especially for the sub-specialties that aren't part of the clerkship core. If you have a clerkship in that sub-specialty with someone well respected in the field, and they give you a good evaluation, it really carries quite a bit of weight.

 

As you said, there are many factors that influence where someone ends up in cARMS, and for this situation, if you go to UBC med, there is more on the negative than the positive side of the equation. But, you can still overcome the handicap.

[Guest Lactic Folly]

canmic, I'm unsure as to why the committee would be biased against their local graduates - was a rationale given?

[Guest TimmyMax]

Hey,

 

Sorry, I should have clarified, as UWOMED2005 pointed out, that when I said "urban Ontario", I of course meant "urban Toronto" (since Toronto = Ontario = Canada). So if you're one of those that consider anything outside of Mississauga or the other Toronto boroughs 'rural', then don't waste your time going to a school that has a rural requirement.

 

BEst of luck!

Timmy

 

P.S.: Third World Medicine! That's rich! :lol

[Guest studentz]

"(since Toronto = Ontario = Canada)"

 

Funny, the only people I've ever met who think that Toronto residents feel this way are those from outside Toronto.

 

Trust me, we read the news, we're not ignorant of what happens outside the city or the province. I'd argue that people outside the city and province are generally more ignorant of the issues Toronto and Ontario face which are not experienced (to the same extent) by any other city or province in this country (i.e. immigration, infrastructure, language, social services, homelessness, transportation, and straight up underfunding and gouging by the government), and that many people in rural Canada are ignorant of the challenges faced by all large cities. I'm sorry, the infrastructure needs of Timmins are not the same as those of Ottawa or Calgary or Toronto. Somebody from Gravenhurst wrote to the Toronto Star complaining about his tax dollars going TO Toronto!!:rolleyes

 

And why does underserviced automatically equal rural? I live ~40 km from downtown Toronto. The Ajax-Pickering site of the Rouge Valley Health System may have to close its maternity services because it cannot recruit pediatricians and other staff. The hospital serves over 200000 people who live smack in the middle of the GTA (the two communities to the East of Ajax have a population of over 250000). Is anyone here going to tell me areas in Toronto like Regent Park, Jane/Finch, Flemington, Parkdale etc have enough physicians? Why don't med schools have mandatory inner city rotations? Every med school in this country is in an urban area, and there are these types of locations in every city, yet we never read about the problems these people face do we?

 

UWOMED2005, thanks for the nice words about the thread. Again, I only feel the Windsor/rural component is a con because of the uncertainty about what I'd do with an apartment and belongings in London if I had to leave for months or the entire year. It has nothing to do with the clinical training, although the student evals showed that formal teaching was greatly missing in Windsor. Oh yeah, my annoyance wasn't in response to your post; you've been extremely helpful in this and other threads (you address our questions and correct our misconceptions in a nice way instead of calling us names!).

[Guest aneliz]

Different people have different opinions of Windsor... and there are many factors (including family/distance from home/etc) that will influence your personal feeling about it.

 

However, be warned, that should you accept an offer from UWO, you may be required to do anywhere from 6months - 1 year of your training in Windsor. At the least, you will be required to spend 4 weeks of third year outside a major teaching centre.

 

If this is an isssue for you, it may be a 'con' in your consideration of UWO. However, students that have completed these rotations have found them to be quite good clinical experiences...

[Guest TimmyMax]

Hey,

 

In case you were wondering, should you be accepted to UWO and end up spending some time in Windsor, unless you are there for the entire year, you will get to live rent-free in housing provided by SWOMEN (which means that you can keep your place in London), which was a major selling point for me. People who spend the entire year down in Windsor have to find their own housing in the city (which makes sense, since you are here for 12 months). Personally, I'm kind of wishing that I had spent the entire year here, although my Family rotation in London was pretty kicka$$.

The lack of residents in Windsor equals more hands-on, one-on-one time spent with the consultants and the lack of structure (while kind of annoying at times) allows one to pretty much do what they are interested in, which for me translated into a day spent doing nothing but TAs (and actually getting to do a few myself), which was highly interesting.

The at-times lack of formal teaching can be seen as a drag by some (including myself at times), but I'd rather learn by doing anyway, so Windsor was a pretty good fit for me.

While some may view the housing situation as a negative, there does exist the possibility of working out some pretty sweet subletting deals with your classmates (as my housemate has set up for next year) and being able to live completely rent-free for like half the year. Wish I'd thought of that one- d'oh!

Anyway, hope this helps clear up some of the misconceptions flying around about Windsor- it's not so bad, trust me!

 

Best of luck!

Timmy

[Guest mosquitoba]

hey all - i just thought that i'd add my 2 cents about the schools i applied to...

 

Calgary

pros

- system-based approach? (can't remember:o )

- new med school campus

- seemed like a fun class

- calgary is a great city, with its proximity to the mountains!

cons

- for me, i'd rather have a 4 year program to allow enough time to explore options outside of the medical school year

- relatively limited anatomy (ie students mostly look at prosections rather than performing dissections themselves)

 

queens

pros

- AWESOME class of 2008 - they seemed genuinely glad to be there

- school campus is absolutely beautiful

- strong curriculum

- i actually liked kingston!

cons

- relatively expensive

- i've *heard* that the clerkship experience at Queens is not as strong as other schools i applied to

- run-down hospitals

 

UWO

pros

- again, as with Queens, beautiful campus

- i got a real sense of pride and school spirit from western students (altho "western is the bestern" did get a bit irritating :lol )

- very strong clerkship program

- cohesive class

cons

- $$$$$$

- wasn't too sold on london, but it rained the *entire* weekend i was there. actually, sleet is a better term

- i wish i could think of another con, because if i could then it would make my decision easier (if i actually get an offer from UWO)

 

manitoba

pros

- its home!

- its cheap!

- small class size

- strong clerkship, clerks are given lots of responsibility (this seems like a good thing now, but i'm sure it'll be intimidating later!)

- responsive faculty

- medical humanities program sounds awesome

- they already accepted me :rollin

cons

- i'd like to have a change of pace, and i've been at that campus for a couple years now

- it seems like a "commuter schoo" - similar to my undergrad experience. i feel like i missed out on having a real university atmosphere, which i think i would get at queens or uwo

 

well, just my thoughts. i think that the quality of education at any of these 4 places is similar, and given that i have no clue what i want to specialize in it doesn't make sense to me to choose a school based on particular strengths of programs (can't i make that decision in residency??). probably manitobas oh-so-cheap tuition will fully win me over

 

mosquitoba

[Guest coastalslacker]

Just wanted to respond to the statement that the clerkship program at Queens is not as strong as at other schools....

My perspective, as a Queens student not yet in clerkship, is rather limited, however, I've never heard anything like that. In fact, I've heard that because Kingston is a smaller center, clerks here get more responsibility than in larger places such as Toronto and London. I'm sure the large Bestern posse here will dispute this, however, I'm just passing along what I have heard.

 

I have heard two knocks against Queens' clerkship program. First is that we do not start clerkship until half-way through third year. Our clerkship runs from Jan of 3rd year through til the end of 4th year. In contrast, Western starts clerkship at the beginning of 3rd year and finishes at Christmas in 4th year. Then they go back for a couple months of review and classroom time. I'm not sure about UofT, but I think it is all of 3rd and 4th year, someone please correct me if I'm wrong about either of these schools.

 

The negative about not starting clerkship at the beginning of third year is that you won't have done all of your core rotations by the time you have to apply to CARMS and you may find that you absolutely love something that you do last, once it's too late to apply to it. Personally, I think that most (not all) people have choice of speciality narrowed down to a couple of choices by the time they finish second year, and set up the order of their core rotations accordingly. Personally, I could not imagine going back to the classroom after being in clerkship...especially to learn stuff like CHE. However, it would be fun just to party for those last couple months-a last gasp of freedom. Extra time to study for the LMCC's isn't really important seeing as the top 95% pass and almost everyone has already matched.

 

The other 'negative' I've heard about Queens is that we have 12 weeks of electives very early in clerkship. Some people say that you don't really know how to be a clerk yet, and that when you go away to another school, looking to impress, you might not be able to. Talking to friends in 3rd and 4th year, what I've heard is that you learn to be a clerk very, very quickly, and there is no generalizable difference between clerks from different schools. I've actually heard some bad things about some schools, but they are anecdotal and it would not be appropriate to repeat them. Queens' has an excellent clinical skills program (incidently, this was one of my top reasons for Queens being my first choice last year), which prepares us extremely well for clerkship.

 

Cheers