Random Thoughts.....careers and such

[Guest Funny Monkey]

Hello to all:

 

Long time viewer of this totally cool board, and now first time posting!

 

To all those out there who have had different careers, I need your help.

 

My Story, completing a Commerce/ Biochem double major because I'm on the fence about future career plans. Thought about Med school, but then all I hear is how incomes are dropping like the titanic, and oh man all that schooling:x , but then again learning about medicine is ever so fascinating!

 

To all those out there, I need help, thanks to all the commerce courses, I'm really focused on compensation for various careers. So to the folks such as MDWannabe, Kirsteen, Mayflower, OU812, jmh05 etc. can someone tell me about the careers that have been discussed here and the type of compensation ($figures)/lifestyle one can expect.

 

Thanks a whole bunch, you're a great group from all that I've read and I hope all your wildest dreams are realized

 

Here's a list of careers I'm interested in (and I like all the subject areas equally). If you all can chime in where you have the knowledge I would be forever indebted

 

1.High Tech Sales

2.Portfolio Manger Mutual Fund

3.Lawyer (Corporate or other)

4.Physiotherapist and or OT

5.Ergonomist, vision science

6.Chartered Accountant (any out there?)

7.Cardiologist / internal medicine

8.Dentist

9.Optometrist

10. merchant banker /investment banker

11. any other cool jobs that have a great compensation and interesting work

 

Thanks again, and may all your efforts end in with a triumphant victory

[Guest MayFlower1]

Funny Monkey,

 

I guess I really have two things to say in reply to your post...(well, probably more than two as you can imagine if you've read any of my posts! )

 

First, and I do say this with my "middle-aged man" hat on here...I mean it with the best intentions and am not intending to be condescending in any way. Compensation is really not a great way to choose a career...and it's not because you're "gold-digging" either. Investing in learning a new career is relatively short in the grand scheme of things...working in a particular field or career stream lasts a lot longer...and if you're in a job that you hate...it can seem like an eternity...and that is no joke.

 

You really have to be interested and HAPPY in your career...you do it AT LEAST 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year (minus, of course holidays, vacation, sick days, etc.). I've been in $100K/year jobs that I absolutely detested. I'd wake up in the morning and the first thing I thought about was how much I dreaded waking up because it meant going into work. At work, I was so unhappy, I literally counted down the minutes until I could get home. It's really an unpleasant experience, and there's no amount of money that could compensate me for feeling like that again. The worst part of it was...at the time I didn't really have a choice as I am a single Dad and I've got two children to support...so I just had to stick it out until I found something I enjoyed more...I personally believe you should consider thinking about all the possible careers you might like to pursue...do some research as you are doing...and guide yourself towards the ones that excite you when you think about the learning (during your education and after) and work you will be doing.

 

Having got that "middle-aged man" stuff off of my chest...which I'm sure you've heard before...I'll try to answer your initial question. I think Kirsteen is better able to comment on the potential salaries in High Tech Sales...however, I'll throw in a thought or two as well. I've met really successful high-tech sales people (several hundred K per year) and really unsuccessful high-tech sales people (I have no idea what they were making but I'd hate to think too hard about it as they typically didn't last at the company very long). Sales is a very unique skillset...some people have it and some people just don't. It's also typically tons of travel...you have to go to the customer...and the customers tend to be spread out all over the country, nation and globe, depending on your products. In short, you may not spend a lot of time at home in high-tech sales. Sorry if I'm being pessimestic here...these are just my personal observations. Kirsteen can probably give a more balanced view of this profession from experience.

 

As you may remember, my back ground is in Psychology...I was a course or two short of a B.Sc. in my undergrad degree...I then went on to complete an M.A. in Experimental Psychology, focussed primarily on vision research, low vision, human factors and rehabillitation of persons with visual disorders. I ended up in a multi-disciplinary design group at Nortel...I was responsible for understanding user/customer needs and human factors. If you are lucky enough to find this kind of a job in Canada you can expect to easily make a $100K+ salary once you've got some experience. Immediately after graduating with a Masters or Ph.D. you can expect to make in the 60K to 80K range. HOWEVER, jobs in this field are far and few between...and they often dry up as they did a few years ago...leaving you forced to move out of the smaller cities to Toronto, Vancouver...or even out of the country to the Silicon Valley in California, etc. Regardless of this kind of stress, however, this was an amazing career for me...I had so much fun doing it and seeing my impact on the world...but then, that's me!

 

The other really nice thing about a degree in Psychology is that it is extremely flexible. It provides you with a great research background (oh, by the way, you have to really enjoy statistics and research methods if you want to pursue Psychology) which can be applied to almost any subject matter. Over my life, I've applied my Psychology degree to the Pharmaceutical Industry (conducting bioavailability, bioequivalence and efficacy studies for new and generic drugs), Graphic Design Industry (helping companies develop a corporate image which fits their market), product design (...Nortel), Ophthalmology (basic vision research, low vision research, pain during/after surgery research), general healthcare (national study on women's experiences of pregnancy, childbirth and early parenthood)...the list goes on and on. This is one of the things that fascinated me with Psychology...you can, if you think creatively, apply it to anything that involves people!

 

Anyway...I think I've extended way beyond my "two things to say".

 

I hope this provides you with some lateral perspective!

 

Peter

[Guest walkorbike]

How about becoming a biology research technician? You earn 30 big ones a year, spend lots of time out in the field and snowshoeing is part of your job description. Never a dull moment, lots of job satisfaction, pay...two out of three ain't bad!

[Guest macdaddyeh]

Hi there Funny Monkey, and all the regular posters:

 

I will try and keep this concise and within the framework of your question/plea:

 

First, I must congratulate you on at least thinking long and hard about this decision. As silly as it sounds, many people don't. For example, MANY people (unless they are lying to others and themselves) claim that they have always wanted to be doctors since they were born. This may be true for some, but not for all. Accordingly, it is a great show of your character that you have been introspective enough to really question your interest and motives.

 

Second, if your interests are broad, why should you have to narrow it yet again? "Think outside the box" is one of my favourite mottos! On one hand, you will ALWAYS have your biochem and commerce degrees to act as a foundation on which to build (a very interesting and challenging double major I might add). It's not like you are in the situation of wondering what to do for an undergrad, rather how to continue and apply that education. Back to my why narrow your options discussion, you should think about being a CONSULTANT. This is of course a lot of work and may result in a lot of initial costs, BUT you are your own boss, you work on your own terms, you will invariably garner a lot of varied and interesting work, and you look for clients as much as they look for you (much of the foregoing applies to a physician's career).

 

Third, decide your lifestyle. An increasing number of physicians are pursuing specialties (ie. radiology and anesthesiology) because a) they want the income, which may seem obvious and they want the freedom; FREEDOM being the key term of course. One day, if you are not already, you may become a parent, which must fit your lifestyle equation. Do you feel comfortable in a rural or urban setting, Canadian or international setting? Is income or freedom more important (in other words, the existential reality exists that it is nearly impossible to have equal parts time and money; one must trump the other at some point).

 

Fourth, building on the above points, I will conclude my wee discussion with a real case study concerning one of your careers of interest. A good friend of mine finished his undergrad in Economics 4 years ago. Keep in mind "Economics." He then decided, much like you did, that he had an increasing interest in health care, so he applied to Western's pioneer Masters level O/T class about 3 years ago?! He was accepted. Some might question the link between "economics" and "O/T" but he wrote a fascinating thesis about cost/benefit analysis in O/T care etc. Anyways, he loved his decision, found O/T to be very flexible and in order to pay off his exorbitant tuition debt (like you'll have to do in many programs these days), he moved to California as a Canadian citizen and is now IN CHARGE of running an O/T clinic. I think he typically works with spinal cord recovery patients etc; I'm actually a little sketchy on the details. Nonetheless, he started at $60K (US$), loves the flexibility, the clinical and administrative side and enjoys the California lifestyle.

 

While none of the above may persuade you in one way or the other, it sounds like you are not so much looking for a career but to further your education. If you have read many of Mayflower's (Peter's) posts, you will note that medicine, at least family medicine, requires exhausting hyper-efficiency. Dream big, but weigh very heavily the pros and cons of your impending choice.

 

Take care,

Macdaddyeh;)

[Guest statementofclaim]

Funny Monkey

 

You are all over the map as to the day-to-day work entailed by those list of careers. MayFlower1 is right, you have to love what you do. This is coming from a 2nd career guy as well. For straight cash, then finish your Bcom, with honors, work in the Finance & Securities industry for a few years. Go to a top B-School for your MBA and then work your way up to a portfolio manager position... big coin. I-Banking is also very good coin. Private eye surgeons in BC are doing cateract procedures at $450 a pop for 20 minutes work, and are doing seven figures.

 

Become a specialist physician/Dentist, corporate lawyer, or merchant banker and you'll make a multiple six figure pay check.

 

All of the rest of your list has the potential to earn $100K+ depending on what your do and how hard your work (i.e. accounting, PT, OT, high tech). Dentist for example have great lifestyle, income, autonomy, technical aspects, etc.. The income range for all of your list will vary significantly, and for the most part will depend on how hard you want to work. A partner in a law or medical practice for example that brings a smaller amount to the table, will get a smaller cut of the pie. The same goes for most of the others you have mentioned.

 

My advice to you is go after something you love to do and do it well. I hope this is helpful.

 

Take care.

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there Funny Monkey,

 

It's pretty easy for some of us more seasoned folks to try to steer you away from the "dark side" of going for the cha-ching features of a job. It can be difficult to reach the conclusion that money isn't everything until you've actually been in a position to make some decent quantities of it. Some of us have been in the very privileged position of not only making a good wage, and realizing that it didn't provide everything we needed, but also having the opportunity and courage (and it can be a bloody scary step!) to leave it behind and pursue what your instincts tell you will be better. From that perspective I'd counsel you to try what interests you and if money is the magnet, see if you like it--many people do and are quite content with their choices--at least you won't regret not having selected that option later.

 

As to a career in high tech sales, Mayflower's comments are pretty much right on. It does take a particular skill set (and a wee bit o' luck) to do very well. Those who have those skills can do extremely well, financially. It was not grotesquely unusual for people I knew to be pulling in paycheques that were large. Fairly often there were people who were earning $10K, $20K, $30K and even $50K per MONTH. Again though and like many industries, those sorts of earnings are reserved for those with the cadre of skills.

 

As to lifestyle, for a twenty-something, high tech sales was a lot of fun. I traveled about a lot, but not to an extent that I found it obtrusive. I visited all sorts of interesting places on a very regular basis including Japan, Taiwan, Europe, and of course, the U.S. Over the years it also taught me skills that will be invaluable in many arenas, including medicine. (Sitting next to the Chairman of a large Taiwanese firm, eating fish-bit soup while jet-lagged at the equivalent of 3:30am Canadian time and trying to impress him with your skill and knowledge confers all sorts of silent strengths!)

 

One drawback that I found to this job was that my intellect wasn't being stretched. After a number of years in the field, gaining an MBA and applying the principles to my job I felt that my gray matter was stagnating. Additionally, working just for the sake of increasing the bottom line seemed strangely empty. So I left.

 

Back to the field though: generally, high tech sales is much akin to selling real estate: if the market is in the toilet, then potentially, so are your earnings. It can be quite roller coaster-ish and is not for the faint of heart if money is a primary goal and a source of worry.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest Mimicat65]

Investment banking - huge range of salary + bonus options.

 

After a couple of years (with Mba) I was making 100k+ easily. But like Kirsteen said, $$ are empty when you are only contributing to the corporate bottom line (just my 2 cents).

 

Dentists in Canada also vary much in their income. From someone who associates in a practice (ie. doesn't invest in his own practice, but rather "rents" space and maybe patients in an existing practice) to someone who works on his own, to someone who builds a large mult-associate practice - the range in salary could be maybe $50-70k to maybe 7 figures. I would estimate that the average solo-practicing dentist makes about $150k - 250k with pretty adaptable hours and a nice lifestyle (read no hospital call!!!)

 

Overall, dentistry is a great profession which includes some of your healthcare interest, but allows much more autonomy, flexibility, etc than physician jobs.

[Guest OU812]

HeyFunny Monkey:

 

Glad to see someone being honest with themselves and exploring other options. In my view, its always best to ask those who have done a job rather than people in school who have yet to work in the field or career guides etc. The people who have spent time in the trenches in a career will provide you with the best insight that is not flowered by ideal visions that students often often have.

 

As a Corporate Lawyer expect to make 90,000 to start with about a 20,000 pay increase each year until year 5 where you will be eligible for partner. At that point expect your partner salary to range between 400,000 to 2-3 million. Word of warning, firms typically have billing targets of 1800-2000 hrs per year, so expect to work like an MD Specialist until you hit partner.

 

Merchant Banking (Private Equity), A very interesting area where you actually go into distressed or troubled companies and in exchange for a portion of their shares you basically map out strategies, and ways to turn the business around (in my case it was biotech companies) and so you get to act as CEO/CFO while you restructure and organize the firm. Once you have "fixed" the broken parts you take the company public allowing the you (the merchant bankers) to earn huge returns from the once worthless shares you were initially given. In this business (that has a very quickly growing number of MD's for Health Care and Biotech groups) expect to make 200,000-500,000 in a bad year straight out of MBA and about 1mill-8mill plus for good years with 4 years in the business. Hours are better than law and investment banking, and a law degree while helpful is not necessary. So both these areas have very lucrative compensation schemes without as much schooling.

 

On a side note a friend of mine, who finished grade 12 did an 8 month certificate at George Brown in heating and Air conditioning 6 years ago is making 7 figures(in the millions with his own co.) now! He has 6 workers and the demand is so high for their work that they can't keep up. There is such a shortage in the trades that even though he is offering new employees $80,000 to start, he gets no responses. His multi million dollar salary blows away that of even opthamologists with about half the hours. Just food for thought if compensation is your primary objuective.

 

My final piece of advice is talk to doctors (most of them don't watch ER or Scrubs) and try and get a candid view of what their lives are really like. Alot will tell you that 80% of their day is mundane and filled with admin tasks, not the exciting stuff that gets fluffed about during med school interviews when the question "Why do you want to be a doctor?" gets asked. Also ask them about the business side of things, overhead, billing retention after expenses, Earnings before Interest Taxes and Depreciation (the cash flow). That will provide a truer picture of how much money you are in for as a physician. Remember 300,000 in billings (a hard working specialist) has to pay a nurse (40,000), receptionist (35,000), Rent (15,000 per year), hydro+maintenance (12000), taxes+(40,000), supplies, needles etc (40,000) leaving them with 100,000. So if its the cash you want there are much easier ways to earn much more.

 

My goal is to join an organization such as Doctors without borders part-time and perhaps open a local clinic in a poor area in Canada where there is desperate need for health care. As it stands, the Market Penetration rates for Physicians in wealthy neighborhoods actually shows a big surplus of doctors(hence clinics losing money that Mayflower mentioned), its the poor neighborhoods that face a critical shortage, one that the new grads don't want to fill for some unknown reason(s). Money is not my objective for med school so I may be of limited help in that area. For a more business view of practicing meds talk with Mayflower. He seems to have an excellent grasp on how to run a practice as an ergonomically productive, profitable money making machine. A great guy to get valuable info from about squeezing out more cash from the business.

 

I hope to serve those who are crying out for help for perhaps a different kind of compensation, the money should not be your primary criteria for deciding, but it's easy for me to say this now sitting on my side of things, I used to be a merchant banker after all

 

Good Luck and if any of the careers that I have been involved in interest you please contact me and I will set up meetings with a few players in the reputable firms.

 

Take care gt2333@aol.com

[Guest jmh2005]

Most of the posts (I skimmed them quickly...) have the same theme...you need to focus on what you would like or even LOVE to do. Compensation is one thing, but that can grow old surprisingly very fast.

 

I posted a bit on OT as a career just a bit ago, and I will try to find the post and paste it in this forum when I find it.

 

Like Peter said, getting up in the morning with that dreaded feeling (regardless of your salary) will only make you miserable...constantly living for the weekend is no way to live, you are merely wishing your life away.

 

Find out what you enjoy, take an career aptitude test, do the Myers-Briggs personality inventory, talk to career counsellors, talk to your friends, shadow people in a variety of careers...starting here is a good idea, especially in you have an interest in medicine. But make sure you know what you are getting into, it's definately not always about money!!

 

Best of luck,

JMH

[Guest PerfectMoment]

that is alot of money being thrown around. however, i think u understate the fact that that money is only the potential that can be earned. i highly doubt many corporate lawyers turn out to be partners in a firm cause well... then everyone would be a partner, leaving no one to do the grunt work. as well, i think that people overstate how much people in some professions make. some of those figures apply only to the very best and brightest... of which many people really are not. and i think that this really helps to inflate their perspectives about earning potentials. but heck, i'm only a grade 12 student, what do i know oh well, if anything, the one thing that medecine has going for it is the fact that you will almost always find work. people will always be sick, and we'll always be there to make them better.

[Guest PhantomPhoenix]

I didn't realise specialists had so many expenses...

 

 

Does the same go for in the states...bc if it doesn't the disparity in salaries between both countries looks greater than I thought

[Guest OU812]

Those are some very pertinant points. Not everyone working for the top law firms makes partner, the ratio in Toronto is something like 1:7. Those who don't make it leave for in house counsel jobs, solo practice, smaller firms or business. So they may never realize the really high income potential. Merchant banking only takes the top grads from top MBA programs, so simply getting an MBA won't guarantee you a job in Private Equity. Also, once you get there you have to perform, its a bit of an up or out policy. This is in sharp contrast to doctors who will earn the same regardless of aptitude, (ie) a mediocre radiologist will be allowed to bill the same as a stellar radiologist and thus earn the same as is the case with many gov't jobs (ie teachers, postal workers)

 

Re:Expenses for MD's office. Again, as I said in my post, I'm no expert, those were just reasonable expenses that I could think of. Mayflower would be more of an authority on the expenses of a practice. I think the disparity between the US and Canada largely comes from the difference in billing allowance rates in Canada vs Insurance allowances in the US which is far greater even with HMO's to the best of my knowledge.

[Guest PhantomPhoenix]

I am asking bc websites like alliance post net salaries or after expense salaries and they are very high if u take into account that the Canadian salaries have the expenses that were previously mentioned

 

 

If anyone has any input on law school...please add

 

I am actually applying for both med and law...

[Guest PhantomPhoenix]

Quick question for the law experts?

 

I heard that Toronto firms are more liable to hire UofT or York Grads....

 

Does it make a significant difference where I study Law?

[Guest statementofclaim]

If you want to get a feel for which law schools the major Toronto firms hire from, and in what numbers, just have a look at any of their web sites and go to the list of summer or articling students. It will give you a flavour.

 

As for which law school has more "shine" than the rest... that is a pissing contest where everyone has an opinion. Toronto and Osgood have very good reps (maybe at the top), but so do many other schools. Queens, Dal, McGill, Western, and UVic are all in there on my list. If I was ranking, that would be my order, but once again, who's to say and what are your criteria. I'll tell you one thing, get A's at any of those law schools and you'll find that opportunities abound. I'm sure the other lawyers on this board can add their thoughts on the subject.

 

One final point on income... Doctors are certainly in demand for medical legal work. I've retained several specialists this past week for some opinions on various files. The typical fee is $5K a pop and up to $2K+ per day to sitting around the court house waiting to be called.

 

Have a great weekend folks.

[Guest macdaddyeh]

Whoaaaa! Statementofclaim: That is insane money to be paid as a medical "expert." It could take a GP (or a specialist for that matter) days or weeks to bill $2000-$4000 whereas what you are saying would lead one to believe that this is almost instant money.

 

Are there many medical experts that do this on a full time basis or are they just called upon when needed, contracted?

[Guest statementofclaim]

macdaddyeh

 

Insane is pretty much how I described it when I first starting reviewing files and invoices with such fees. However it is really no different than seeing the legal bill for a large law firm doing work for a large company. Nobody thinks twice about a $90K legl bill for the month.

 

There are few doctors that do this full time. A doctor who only does expert opinions can be little use, as their credibility will appear to go with the retainer. Many docs have no desire to do this type of thing and the types of docs I would recommend using, do it if they can, but are not exactly knocking on doors to get the work. Experts may only do a handful of opinions are year. Some may do more, so do less. It depends on the nature of the specialty. Ortho, psych, PM&R, neurologists, etc. are typical for disability cases. Neruopsychologists are used +++. Some bills are more modest, in the $3-4K range, depending on the file; but usually you pay what they ask as long as it isn't the moon.

 

I raised the issue, as it is a side line. Doing ten of these a year would net an expert an extra $50k or so a year, with little or no overhead involved i.e. some overhead is a dispursement and you just tack it on to your bill. Nice work if you can get it.

 

On other note... if you are willing to wait for your fee, you can often see a much larger fee. Plaintiff's counsel don't get paid until they settle (almost nothing gets tried!), and so if you agree to do some work on account, you'll get paid when they get paid. Your opinion may (depending on what it is) make that settlement happen a whole lot faster.

 

In the US... oh, that is another story. I was getting some names from a friend who is a head of geriatric medicine at a teaching hospital; he told me that docs in his specialty advertise these services in their journals. Get out your cheque book!

 

Later...

 

By the way Ian & moderators... Nice job. Great board.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

I'm not positive statement of claim's figures are accurate, but I'd be inlcined to believe him. I've actually heard of a few different physicians getting into this field, and some do end up doing it fulltime. The money is supposed to be quite excellent.

[Guest PhantomPhoenix]

On the topic of lawyers....I hear about the high salaries....but not all of them can make those bucks

 

I assume that getting into law school is not sufficient..once in...u have to excell to get picked up by a good firm..and then excell again to make partner

 

What percentage of those in law school actually make partner at a decent firm?

 

cause I see successful lawyers and I see lawyers who are getting by....

 

Med school...for better or for worse....ur a doctor.

[Guest therealcrackers]

Couple of points to add--- law may be a wonderful career, and Bay St. may be the pinnacle for attainment in the non-criminal side of the profession. However, a larger firm in Toronto has cut back a couple of first-year associate positions owing to lack of work, so it's not all wine and roses even when you get there. The concept of billable hours also applies to articling students, associates and partners (the rate goes up, but the drive is still there). The expectation is that at different levels, a lawyer will bill a certain number of hours (1800 to 2100+) per annum, out of which the firm will pay their salary and the salaries of their support staff. But that's billable hours, not counting conferences, some of the travel time, etc. Total time working is likely an additional 50% on top of that, so that's 55-65 hours a week with 2 weeks off for the whole year. About a third of a given graduating law class may try to climb this ladder, and maybe a third to a quarter of those will stay the 7-15 years at a firm to make partner, but not all of them will succeed.

 

In Canada, my impression is that medical experts are only very rarely "professional witnesses", ie. more or less a full-time gig. Yes, the pay is substantial, but the requisite skill and knowledge is also very substantial. Often these witnesses are there to establish or deny the credibility of a key argument in the case; their own credibility can be called into question if they are seen to be doing it exclusively for the money. The US is a whole other ball of wax...

[Guest statementofclaim]

Nothing in law is cast in stone. Bay street is often looked at as the tip of the pyramid in Canada, but many boutique litigation and other firms have partners doing very very well. The previous poster is very correct though in noting that there are lots of lawyers just treading water when it comes to financial remuneration. In most firms it is up or out. You don't make partner in 7 years you either become a permanent associate in some capacity or you are out. I've never heard of someone 15 years post call becoming a partner for the first time, unless they are leaving some other high level business position or in-house counsel gig where they are bringing work and contacts with them. Some firms have non-equity partners after 2-3 years and then full equity partners after another 3-4, although I see that as more fluff than substance.

 

Partnerships for doctors in established practices can happen right away or at most 2-3 years down the road.

 

Look at junior associates in a large law firm like residents in demanding specialties like surgery, IM or OB/GYN in terms of hours. In major transactions, you pull lots of all night’ers and jump home for a quick nap and to change your suit.

 

The great thing about both medicine and law as a career is that no matter what anyone says, it is your career to make what you want of it, and you can always have your own shop with a shingle above the door. Corny but true.

 

Later...

[Guest PerfectMoment]

i know that this is a really broad question considering the fact that banking encompasses many different fields (for lack of a better word) but if u can help list some other type of bankers and their salaries, that'd be great too. do financial institutions hire bankers from the top of the business school grads? what can one expect to make in their early years of investment banking (or whatever type of banking... i'm really unfamiliar with this career). how about when a person is more experienced? is it a regular 9-5 job sitting in front of a computer? thanks for the answers

[Guest OU812]

I'll try and provide some input about banking. I hope it helps. I would also like to say that right now the investment banking market is very tight, but things may improve by summer....or perhaps not, its tough to say and the outcome probably depends on how long a potential war lasts.

 

 

BANKING OVERVIEW:

 

Investment Banking:

 

The most prestigious of banking jobs, the most lucrative and probably the most demanding.

You are in the business of advising CEO/CFO's of top corporations on merger/acquisition advice. You will also value companies to price and issue equity shares and bonds for corporations, governments etc. It can be be glamour filled at times. You fly first class overseas, stay at the Hyatt / Four seasons and deal with top executives. However the work is very demanding. Its not a 9-5 job, expect to work like a MD specialist would, ie 60-70hrs per week. Of course as you move up the food chain (that is if your good enough to move up) your hours will decrease to a more sane level. The upside is you will learn alot and within the business world, the experience you get will get you into the door of top jobs, ie moving to a client as CFO or high level management.

 

Out of undergrad expect to make 55K bonus (15-25K) signing bonus 8K

This will be for two years after which you will have to return to Business school (on the firm's coin in many cases). On thing that many don't know is the American investment banks take new grads from ANY major and train them for the job. I remember seeing new recruit classes filled with art history, sociology, biology majors. The only condition is that you have top grades (ie probably better than those needed for meds 3.7-4.0).

 

If you come in as an Associate after an MBA expect 85K 25K signing bonus year end bonus 50K-150K (This year considered a horrible year paid 135K US total comp to first year associates at Morgan Stanley in the Toronto office).

This will increase year after year and by year 4 or 5, expect to be in the 400K-600K range. This goes up as you move to VP in year 7 and finally Managing Director( approx. year 12) at which point compensation is typically in the millions.

 

 

 

Commercial Banking

 

Totally different animal. More reasonable hours. Primary function is providing loans to business customers (more of what you see in branches).

Expect to make 40-50K to start and probably top out at 100K 7-10 yrs down the road.

More of a 9-5 job. Your not in front of a computer as a big part of the job is going to visit the client's business and drum up loan business in addition to doing the due diligence before handing out the loans.

 

I hope this helps. Please see my description of merchant banking in one of the above posts for info on that area. If you have any questions please feel free to ask

 

Are you thinking about going into banking of some sort?

[Guest PerfectMoment]

it's just good to know what other options there are for a person outside of meds. thanks for the great info, it helps alot. btw, i always thought that investment bankers were the people at banks who deal with GICs and mutual funds and stuff... i guess that's a whole other area of banking? have any info on that type of banking?

[Guest OU812]

Hi PerfectMoment:

 

A person who deals with GIC's etc at the branch level is sometimes called an investment specialist or Personal Banking Officer. You need to get your Canadian Securities course (a self study couse) to sell GIC's mutual funds etc.

 

Salary wise I think they start around 40K and top out at around 60-70K (this is just a guesstimate).

 

Financial Advisors also sell stocks,bonds, mutual funds etc. and they also need the Canadian Securities Course. You can expect to make around 50K to start and you go up from there. The sky's the limit, it really depends on how good you are at bringing in business and how good the markets are doing. During the boom time even the worst Financial Advisor looked like a genius, with the markets now, everyone has egg on their face.

 

Just curious Perfect Moment, if there is no interest in Banking, are you remotely considering it if things don't pan out, hense the reason for the question? Some areas are not as stuffy as many perceive and there some neat things going on. I guess in many cases you can be looked at as the Financial Doctor helping heal companies etc.

 

Take Care