my dilemma....please help.

[Guest hazard]

Okay Here I go.

I am a U of T student going on to third year. Recently (VERY recently) I've had the awakening that a profession in psychiatrist or family medicine would be most rewarding for me in this lifetime. With that in mind, it would be wise to be patient in my pursuits especially since my GPA is nowhere near the cut off (3.3 but would be 3.44 if my lowest mark is excluded.) My GPA is salvageable and according to the general view of most med students on this board, nothing is impossible.

 

Here's the REAL dilemma. This summer I worked in a neurophysiology at the medical science building at U of T. I wasn't assigned a project which was still cool because I worked with bacteria (transforming, mini prepping and doing restriction digests) and I worked with snails. Basically my tasks were versatile. Regardless, I've been given the opportunity to do a third year research project with my supervisor as a credit. The problem is, project courses are time confusing and seem unpredictable) and if I want to go into medicine it would be wise to concentrate on my GPA in my third year (since I'm running out of years.) On top of this I do not have much confidence in my supervisor. Although she believes me to be hard working she feels I couldv'e been more involved with her research but considering I wasn't given a project I don't know how else to be involve especially when she was too busy to guide me and tell me what to specifically read rather than telling me what sources to research (this is my side of the situation of course). Its her first time running a lab since she just completed her post doc and i was the first summer student that has actually worked with her.

In the event that i don't work with my supervisor, I'm going to try to volunteer for labs that are part of the department I am taking my undergrad specialist through. This way I will make contacts with individuals in my department and move into a fourth year project course for my undergrad specialist program (which obviously isn't neuroscience.)

Also from what I understand, med schools like applicants with background in research. which motivates me to take the project course offered by my supervisor and my schedule this year would be perfect to accommodate one. However, I don't feel comfortable taking this project course but at the same time I want to do what's best for me.

 

So as you see there are numerous pros and cons to this dilemma and I am at wits end. Which is why I've taken the time to write this endless post on the premed board.

 

SO WHAT SHOULD I DO??? Feed back would be immensely appreciated.

[Guest adlinner]

Research can certainly help. I did some part time clinical stuff over two summers. But I talked almost nothing of my research in my interviews. (And was 3 for 3 getting in.)

 

My full time jobs have always been working in children's recreation programs. For my three interviews we almost exculsively talked about my work with kids and my hobbies. Partly it was because the interviewers didn't seem like they had a lot of interest in the research part of me, and partly, the answers to questions like "give me an example of how you dealt with a difficult situation involving other people" makes more sense when I give an example from camp - rather than with a chart-review or in your example with snails. A friend of my talked about soccer for 45min (they just kept asking questions about it!!) despite the fact he had wicked volunteering track record and a published paper as first author in a major science journal - he got in as well without the interviews ever knowing he was a researcher or a philanthropist.

 

What is best for you is what you're comfortable with! If you've had amazing research, it will be something to bring up in an interview. And if you want to direct the interview towards your research work, you'll be able to with splendid examples. However, you do have to get a good GPA to get your foot in the door so your voice may be heard! And when your voice is heard, who knows what the interviewers will want to hear? It so hard to know if the interviewers you get that day will want to hear about your research at all. The only thing you can do is pursue what YOU want to do right now - while, yes, ironically trying to get a competitve GPA - because in the end you can only do the research for yourself for the reason that it is what you want to do next year. If you do so because you think the schools will want it, you're making life hard on yourself based on an uncertainty! Go with certainty.

 

 

Good luck and my very best wishes,

ad.

[Guest jmh2005]

I wholeheartedly agree with Ad...you need to spend your time doing something that you enjoy, not just something that 'looks good on an app'. What do you think will get the most out of? Is it getting research experience...you need to think...what will you learn from that and how will it make you an attractive candidate?

 

Maybe concentrating on your GPA will work more in your favour? Are there courses this year that you are really interested in? My suggestion is to ensure that what you take will be something that you can do well in because GPA seems to be even more important to get to interview at all schools in Canada (even Mac is now moving to a more GPA-oriented approach post-interview as was evident this current cycle...).

 

Personally, I had very little research on my application...I only worked as a research assistant for 2 years in a study examining outcomes post-CVA when I was a practicing OT (maybe a total of 30 hours in 2 years!)...I never worked in a fancy lab or with a tenured prof...I go to Mac, so I can't really speak for the other schools....to me a competitive GPA together with an overall well-rounded application is the key, which may or may not consist of research. Just my opinion however!

 

Good luck

[Guest macMDstudent]

I am a bit torn on this one. I used to feel that people should do what you enjoy most, work hard at it and good things will happen. After hearing so much about the changing environment at Mac and the new emphasis on grades, and the increasing competition of getting into med school pretty much everywhere, I would have to say that getting a good GPA is becoming more important just to make the cutoffs for an interview.

 

I'm only trying to be a bit of realist here. I think you should work hard to bring your GPA up. I would recommend doing what you think you can get the highest grades in at this point, and hopefully that is the same thing as what you enjoy most! Certainly if you work closely with people and make a good impression you will most likely get a good grade and probably a great reference letter to boot. However, if you know of some courses at your school that you can pull off some good marks, I would suggest looking into those.

 

Unfortunately, the application process is a numbers game and the GPA numbers are very important. Certainly, doing research is nice but it is not necessary to be accepted. However, without the cutoff GPA you might not get to the interview stage.

[Guest peachy]

Hey Hazard,

 

A few thoughts:

 

Recently (VERY recently) I've had the awakening that a profession in psychiatrist or family medicine would be most rewarding for me in this lifetime

For me, at least, deciding that I was going to do medicine was something that took me a looooooong time to realize. If you're saying that you suddenly had a revelation that you want to be a doctor, then that probably means that you should explore it a little more before deciding for sure. Just my opinion, of course.

 

As to getting in, I totally agree with what the others have written - no matter what else you do this year, you MUST get a competitive GPA! There is always the odd person who makes it through with weak numbers, but the fact is (whether we students like it or not!) that most schools won't even look at you unless you get very good grades next year.

 

I think you should first decide honestly if you can do research while improving your GPA. If you don't think you can, then don't do it. Remember that you can do a research project next summer and then in fourth year. The other thing to keep in mind is that you have to learn how to get good marks, and you need to understand what bad habits have kept you from doing well in previous years. It is not always as simple as saying "now that it matters, I will get a 3.9 GPA". Are you certain that you can just walk in and do better? Do you understand why you've done relatively poorly in past years?

 

On top of this I do not have much confidence in my supervisor. Although she believes me to be hard working she feels I couldv'e been more involved with her research but considering I wasn't given a project I don't know how else to be involve especially when she was too busy to guide me and tell me what to specifically read rather than telling me what sources to research (this is my side of the situation of course).

If you do decide that you want to continue with the research, I really think you ought to have a talk with your supervisor about this before working with her again! It sounds like you're not very happy with the supervision she's giving you. If this is the case, then you better make sure that you are going to get supervision that is more to your liking before you work with her again.

 

However, I don't feel comfortable taking this project course but at the same time I want to do what's best for me.

Honestly, if it were me, there would be no way I would take a project course that I wasn't comfortable with. What's the point? Having or not having this course is almost certainly not going to make the difference between getting in. If you want to find something meaningful to put on your application then do it--but pick something that you're going to look forward to and feel comfortable with!

 

peachy

[Guest hazard]

This past week has resulted in much depression due to my indecisiveness so I thank you all for your replies. It really has helped me put things in perspective.

 

I think your absolutely right peachy, it could be too early for me to confidently say "this is what I want" after a short period of time. Whether all this is a phase for me will be revealed in time.

 

As for improving study habits there is ALWAYS something more I can do or do differently (focus, review and relax more, take less breaks etc.) but I think it's worth stating that I had to undergo therapy to reduce anxiety during tests and exams.) Slacking and Procrastination has hardly been my weak points. Regardless, this summer has definetely been one of contemplation and reflection.

 

As i said before, I appreciate evryone's advice. There 's nothing more I can say but thanks

[Guest Hilde]

you sound a lot like me. As of now, my GPA is not exactly the most competitve out there, but I believe it could be rescued. I'm going into third year specializing in biochemistry at UofT. I have spent almost the whole summer now working in a research lab at a downtown toronto hospital and the most satisfying part of it all is that I developed so much love for what I do that I want to pursue cardiology. My summer research was in the field of atherosclerosis by the way. I strongly believe I have made the right career choice, although I don't even know if I will get into medicine at all with my grades right now. At least there's one silver lining in my cloud, I know what I love to do now and I will do everything i can to reach that goal. That means changing my study habits too. I know how you feel, the stress and all the pressure on us. I went through some tough times, and at one moment, it seemed to me as if everybody else was enjoying their university time except for me, and that was pretty depressing. As long as you find something you love to do, you will work hard for your goals and that will make you a very happy person indeed. You have the potential to do well, because you were chosen for summer research out of so many applicants. Also, I think your GPA is decent enough. That supervisor sounds like she really believes in you. And now you just have to believe in yourself. :lol

[Guest hazard]

Wow Hilde thanks for the encouragement. I'm glad you had the opportunity to work in your lab to find what your calling should be.

 

I think its only a matter of time before we accomplish our goals. Of course this shouldn't be an excuse for slacking off. So I guess we'll really have to pull up our sleeves for 3rd year . I personally need to learn how to do well on MC tests (PSL 302 destroyed me) and get less B+s ::rolleyes .

 

So 2nd was hell for you to? We should form a support group. I constantly look back and tell myself "never again." It sucks more when all the people you hang out with want to go to med school because they have the GPAs to do so. But if I've learned anything from 2nd year it's to move on upon receiving a bad mark. Shed a tear or fume in the presence of a friend and then to move on and not dwell. It really affects your general mood and leads to further depression that will certainly be academically detremental.

[Guest Hilde]

I know MC questions are such a pain in the you-know-where. I have to pay for it with my GPA But MC is the way of life at big universities, and that's something we all have to work on. But you know, on a more positive note, as classes shrink at least in my program, some of the upper year tests and exams I've seen are just based on short answer questions. That may not be bad. I'm sure that works for your program too.

Second year was a torture for me. But as I explained to my friends, they kept on asking me what the hell i was complaining about because i was in the 70's. I was like "forget it, they don't understand". There are two groups of people I know in Life Science, those people obsessed with a 4.0GPA and would go berserk if they don't meet their ultimate goals; And the other group despises the first. I think I'm more in the middle.

 

As you've said, there is no point dwelling on the past, you cannot take back what's been done. All we have to do is just look forward to the future and if there's anything we've learned through the unfortunate events of this past school year, make some certain changes without losing our goals.

[Guest eJaya]

Hi Hilde and Hazard,

I just wanted to give you both some hope on your med school prospects. If medical school is what you truly believe is your goal, you can do it. Just keep that in mind every day. I graduated in a small class in fourth year with more than half of my class (good friends of mine) going into medicine right away. Unfortunately, I just didn't have the GPA I needed. But with a little more hard work and some dedication, I've done it. In my MSc, I met a man who had applied five times to meds. He was a wonderful, bright, and hard-working person and this year- he got in. You just have to keep your goal right in front of you and eventually your hard work and persistence will pay off. Keep your chins up, work hard, and be kind people.

[Guest monksters]

I totally agree with eJaya. My nemisis was the MCAT VR and I fought with that test 3 times before finally getting an agreable score. At times at was at my lowest of lows but I kept believing that if this is what I was meant to do then I would eventually get there. Not everyone takes the same path in life. As someone wise once said to me "life is not like a highway but like an open ocean. And everywhere you look could be lurking a new opportunity." Some take the shot gun route and others the more scenic route (as I have done). But everything happens for a reason. I know that I have learned a great deal in these three years and I would have missed out on a lot had I not taken this detour. So I wish you the best of luck and take any opportunity that peaks your interest. You never know what you might see around the corner. And keep believing just like the little choo choo train " I think I can I think I can"

 

Adios

[Guest BBlues]

I'm really glad to have stumble across this post today. For the last few weeks I was having a lot of doubts about continuing to pursue medicine. With my accumulative gpa being far from the cut off point (2.0), it has been hard to maintain my momentum. However, after reading all of your post, I am feeling very inspired and perhaps much more clear with my direction. I don't think anyone who has made it this far with their education is incapable of achieving academic success. However, it is possible to get side tracked, perhaps like monkster stated, by the scenery (as I have too).

 

For as long as I remember, I've wanted to be a doctor. And it got even more obvious when I started to consider other careers and no matter what it was,I would always end up back at med. Realizing that now, I know that I will be trying my best to achieve the best mark I can from now on, as well as do all that is necessary to recieve that acceptance letter.

 

I am sure that in time, with some diligence and persistence we will all have our dreams realized. I wish you all your best in your endeavour.

[Guest Toonces]

Hey hazard.

 

I was taking a few months off between undergrad and starting my master's, and I had a vivid DREAM about quitting my master's and going to med school instead! I ended up sticking with the master's, although it was hard..because I knew it wasn't where I wanted to be..but I used the time to really research other careers, including medicine (oh yeah and do my thesis..:rolleyes )

 

One super valuable resource, for me, was the career centre at U of T. The counsellors are very supportive (I had Karen..she's a sweetheart), I liked the extern program (I shadowed a PT and a pediatrician), and there's tonnes of information to look at and think about, in terms of what you want from your career and how a particular career fits your personality.

 

From my experiences in research, younger profs will drive you much harder because they are struggling to get tenure and need as much research productivity from their lab as possible. Having done some work with one prof, you might be able to switch to another one in the same dept/field..maybe you could look into that, if you decide on the research route.

[Guest hazard]

Thank you for the encouragement monkster and eJaya.

Even though undergrad is a critical moment for our premed years I think students should really break away from the mentality that getting into med school must be accomplished within the four years you are in university. We have the rest of our lives hehhe. This is what I've understood from this discussion board.

 

LoL hey BBlues. I guess I should reveal that your thread entitled "is there any hope left?" has provided me with inspiration as well on premed101 and utboard heheh. I'm glad I can reciprocrate with this thread. I defintely wish you good luck. Even if things start out bad don't lose hope so quickly. You definetely sound like someone who wants to be a doctor for the right reasons.

 

You've said a mouthful Toonce. I don't think alot of people clue into their true calling through a vivid dream. I think thats awesome. I more or less had an epiphany. Or maybe I'm just going mainstream hehe. Whatever. I still want to be a doctor but considering that my "awakening" was recent I should definetly bone up on some research. Definetely try to see if I would be suited for a career in psychiatry personality wise. I'm pretty sure I would do a better job than my therapist did. She never asked how I was when I walked into her office.

Congratulations of your acceptance to U of T med and Goog luck.