What the Heck is up with Mac ???

[Guest kornphan]

I applied to Mac last year, have a very high GPA. Got a 'disqualified' letter last month saying that they didnt get my grades by Oct 15th.. after weeks of hassle, proofs, they said 'ok great we have everything'. Last week anothet 'disqualified' letter, this time they are saying that I only have 18 credits (above year1) and they need 20. Actually I have 24 credits (according to OMSAS).. so what do I do ?.. keep fighting or just give up ?.... Frrrruuuuuusssstttteeeeddddd !

 

korn

[Guest gucio93]

In all honesty, it depends on how much you want to be a physician. If that is truly what you want then KEEP FIGHTING!

I have no idea why this year there seem to be so much confusion and disqualification letters, and I know how frustrating it is to have to jump through all the hoops (I also got a disqualification letter when I was applying, but manged to prove my case and ended up being accepted) but the best advice I can give you is to keep your cool, be as nice as possible when you call, prepare ahead of time so that you have all your facts in front of you and keep at it! Good luck.

[Guest eye hope its my turn]

Yes!!! Fight, write a letter to them and send via FedEx, build a case for yourself. Just don't give up. Frustrating, I can imagine. If OMSAS clearly says that you have 24 credits, then call OMSAS and ask then if they can provide you with a statement via e-mail stating that you do have 24 credits. Then print up the letter and send a copy to Mac. Make sure you keep a record of the correspondance. Good luck.

[Guest Dr Feelgood]

I thought you only needed to be in the third year ie 10 credits completed, currently working on the 5 to make 15 credits in total

 

 

Anyone know whats going on?

 

Thanks

Dr. F

[Guest yup]

ya me and my friends got our letters(disqualifications) way back in january. We all have like 3.8-4.0 so we were crushed. Anyways, its a weird stipulation in the omsas book but it is there, people just dont read it carefully. They do this to prevent people from taking easy 1st year courses since mac has no requirements people could take advantage of there system. Anyways, good luck next year with mac...hope u get interviews at other schools........ i did:)

[Guest Liana]

Dr Feelgood,

 

I think what kornphan means by 20 credits above first year, is 20 one semester courses. This translates to 10 full year credits above first year, ie, 2 of your 3 required academic years above the first year level.

[Guest Dr FeelGood]

I appreciate the reply

 

Take Care

 

Dr. F

[Guest BCgirl]

I wasn't planning on applying to Mac, but I don't like their course requirements. I would be among those disqualified, but I don't think they should expect people to only have one year's worth of first year courses (if you don't take summer courses or over 5 courses so you have at least 15 credits being above first year). In my first year I took first year calculus, english, physics, chemistry and biology. So, what would I do for electives? A lot of courses have prerequisites, so if I wanted to take, say, some philosophy courses, I might need a first year philosophy before taking classes at a higher level.... but I wouldn't be able to do that and still be able to get into Mac (unless I did summer courses or >5 courses). I just don't think that's right...

 

Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, but I'm in a rush

[Guest Chris Bell]

I think Mac is just being fussy

 

It makes much more sense to base interviews on cutoffs intially and then learn more about the applicant during the interview. Queens and Western give you a fair shot without these insane technical details. Additionally I think their application is a really poor way to judge potential applicants. Those 3 sentence questions are completly arbitrary and can easily be convered in the interview. How do you tell one applicant versus another based on those dinky answers. Oh well thank god I got accepted to UofT, if this is the application process for them, I cant imagine what going to school everyday would be like. Good luck to you, my heart goes out to you all

 

Chris Bell

[Guest Hamiltonian]

I think they have to have these weird requirements to regulate abuse of their "anybody can come hear policy" Here's a plan, why not put down some basic requirements!!!!!!

 

I guess thats why US World News Report calls Mac Canada's equivalent to the Carribean schools for the US

 

Oh well back to class

[Guest Liana]

I agree with you that Mac's application process can seem a bit tedious or silly, but I do have to defend the "dinky" response portion of the application. It's easy enough to write a free form essay encompassing all of your special talents and activities, like in the Toronto application, but I think this is Mac's subtle way of going one step beyond that in testing your communication skills. It's much harder to be able to write a concise remark that illustrates how great you are; being able to succeed in conveying a strong image of themselves in their profiles with the limitations provided requries a much more finely developed sense of communication that merely writing a strong essay.

 

But you're write, it's horrendously irritating to try to fill out.

[Guest gucio93]

I beg to differ. The questions are certainly not arbitrary - if you researched Mac's programme and methods of learning you would realize that every single question provides a very good glimpse as to whether or not that particular person may fit into Mac's way of learning and whether that person has the capability to succeed in a very much self-directed learning environment. Liana's comments addressed the other portion of your post quite precisely.

 

I know that it is interview time, and everyone is getting more and more anxious and frustrated, but that is certainly not a reason to make sarcastic, negative comments about individual schools and the way they chose to set up their admission process.

 

Fortunately, we live in a free society that has more than one medical school, more than one style of learning. If you do not like the requirements, if you find them excessive or unreasonable, you do have the choice to apply to other schools that would parallel your learning style.

 

So good luck everyone and please let's keep things civil .

[Guest Carolyn]

I agree that many people end up taking first year courses in order to have prereqs and for electives. The problem comes when you only have two years worth of marks at the time of applying to Medical school and will only have three years of schooling.... Then it gets a little concerning if a large majority of those marks come from first year courses. I guess that is why Mac put in the stipulation - Is this stipulation not only in place for people applying after three years? I gather they were going to relook the people who got disqualified because of the stipulation and reconsider those who had only one extra 1st year course. What was the outcome of that?

[Guest bluesky125]

I phoned Mac a week ago and they said that they are not going to review the applications for third year students who got disqualified. I was disappointed but I will apply again next year.

[Guest Posher]

Did they really tell you they weren't going to review the applications of those who were disqualified? That's pretty mean seeing as how they told the Dean of Arts and Science and the Ombuds person at Mac that they were going to review them all and that they did not intend to disqualify "those with only one extra first year course". I'm not going to be impressed if they just said that and then didn't bother reviewing them!

 

Oh well. I suppose there is always next year

[Guest gucio93]

Justine - I felt it would be more productive to the discussion to delete your post as it was written, however, if you want to voice your opinion/wishes in a more constructive tone I encourage you to do so. This forum works because people help each other and remain friendly. Blowing off steam may be helpful for you but is rather detrimental to the rest of the people reading it as it only serves to inflame emotions/anxieties, which are already high .

Everyone, please let's keep things in perspective and on a mature level.

[Guest Justine Sheppard]

Hi I posted but was deleted, Im sorry Gucio I know its your school and all but this is really annoying. I will repost the story as follows

 

Hello everyone I had contacted the admissions comittee 2 months ago regarding taking a first year course in my second year. They told me that is perfectly fine and assured me that it would't be a problem. Now I contacted them a week ago and told me I was disqualified. I spoke with the dean of admissions and she told me that "maybe next time I wont pick my courses so haphazardly" All I did was take my humanities requirement (1st year english) in second year because I had 5 full science courses in first year. I think their disorganization is affecting our futures and we should consider taking legal action if this continues. I dont think it is fair to just make the rules as you go along regardless of who you hurt along the way. Anyways that's my story

 

Gucio, I hope this will pass the litmus test

Thanks

Justine

[Guest Carolyn]

Hey Justine,

 

That really sucks! I'm sorry you and others have run into such barriers. I'd encourage you to write a letter to the Chair of admissions, dean of medicine (health sciences) and whomever else you feel is appropriate if you feel that you were treated unfairly. Phone calls may also be appropriate. The Chair of admissions is Claude Nahmias and the dean of health sciences (which includes medicine) is John Kelton. Hopefully one of them can provide a more appropriate response.

 

The Chair of admissions is actually a male so whichever female you spoke to may have been a secretary or someone of the sorts... I really hope that wasn't a direct quote as that was inappropriate and unprofessional in my view.

 

Take care.

 

Carolyn

[Guest Justine]

Hi Carolyn

 

Its too bad you were not in charge of admissions, maybe some of us could get a fair shot

 

I actually have spoken twice to Claude and once two John Kelton. Kelton referred me back to Claude (thats why I spoke to him twice) and he said they have so many qualified candidates that they dont have time for people who couldnt follow their simple instructions that he felt were made very clear. Then the third time I called someone directed me to the female (she had some big position regarding admissions, I though it was dean of admissions but oh well) and she gave me the direct quote. Its just frustrating because alot of us (well qualified) are getting left out in the cold due to a very small and insignificant technicality. I really wasn't trying to pad my GPA with easy first year courses, I just had to take an English for my degree and couldn't fit it into my full first year. I really dont see why that makes me someone to be avoided like the plague. Its just not fair

 

Anyways sorry for whining (its just me me me ) How are things in med school how are holding up? good luck with everythingl.

 

Thanks again for your kind encouragement

 

Justine

[Guest MacApplicant]

Hello everyone!

I am a fourth year student and I have too applied to Mac this year because I like their program and I think it best suits the way I like to learn. As mentioned above we are very fortunate to have several medical schools with different ways of evaluating their candidates. I can't imagine having all five schools requiring the exact same things. Everyone has their strenghts and weaknesses and this way there is a good chance that at least one of the schools will fit those well. Personally I have good marks and extra curricular activities, but I am not that strong on the MCAT, so I know that I can not get in to Western or Queens. I am fully aware of that and I so I will try my best to get into the other schools.

I don't think it's fair to criticize a school because you may not fit their requirements. All schools reserve their right to change their requireemnts and most do. Western changes the cutoffs every year but I don't see many people complaining about that.

I think Mac's open mindedness to concentrate on people's lives and personal qualities as supposed to numbers, is being abused, as people think they deserve to get in just because they have a 3.0. Unless you are part of Mac's programs I don't think you can fully understand what the program is like and what makes a successful applicant. So the same questions that may seem arbitrary to some, may be very good indicators of one's abilities to the faculty members and students at Mac.

This forum is a wonderful resource for helping each other, and not an opportunity to debate which school we think is better, and make negative comments about schools that some of us may consider our first choice.

Good luck to everyone out there with the interview letters and lets be more respectful!

 

Mac Applicant

[Guest JSS02]

If the instructions were so clear (as they claim), then I doubt so many third year applicants would've applied, knowing that they'd be rejected for that stupid course requirement. I know of several people in that situation, and from what I've been reading on the message boards, it's pretty widespread. It sucks...

 

Best of luck at the other places you applied to.

[Guest Liana]

From what I recall, it said something like "two full years above the first year level" (?).

I think that's one of those statements that can be blatantly clear to some and easily misperceived by many others. I would have probably read that to mean that you needed to have completed 3 full full years, but only now that I know precisely what they were implying, it becomes clear.

 

Ironic that a school with so much emphasis on the communication process could publish such a confusing remark.

[Guest applicant too]

To me, I find it hard to understand how potential doctors can misinterpret MAC's prerequisites. Two full years (= 10 courses) must be above level one (= > 101 level courses). How can that be misinterpreted? If there was any question in someone's mind then the question should have been concisely posed prior to filling out the application. Eg. "Can I take a first year course in 2nd year?" "Sure you can." You didn't specify that you had already taken 5 first year courses so how would the adm people have known that? Many people took 2nd year or higher courses in 1st year which means that there was still room for first year courses in later years. As long as you will still meet the 2 out of 3 years > level one then there is no reason why you can't take a 101 course in second or third year. If you don't ask the right questions then you won't get the proper answers.

 

I think MAC's requirements are very clearly spelled out and I think it is completely unfair that there is so much bashing of MAC's instructions. Granted, it sounds like there are a few applicants that were a bit confused but what about the other 3000+ that DID understand the requirements. As someone else said, if you don't agree with their policies, then don't bother applying.

[Guest Liana]

With all due respect, applicant too, I would have to disagree with your insistence that Mac's requirements are clear as day. I do agree that applicants should probably make sure they are entirely clear with the admissions requirements, by talking with the admissions people prior to applying, but sometimes it's hard to know that something is unclear if you think that your misperception is clear to you.

 

I think criticising the applicants' mistake by stating that the other 3000+ applicants had no problem ignores the fact that of those 3000 applicants, likely more than 2/3 have completed more than 3 years. Of those 3rd year applicants, most did not take 1st year courses beyond their first year, or only took 5 full credits, so the potential number of people who would be affected by this policy is probably a couple hundred. By the sounds of it, there are quite a number of people receiving these letters, so perhaps you have underestimated your number of people who made the same mistake.

 

I still would disagree that the requirements are clearly stated. Mac says that you need 2 full YEARS above the 1st year level, not 2 full years of COURSES. I can be in a YEAR above the first year level, yet still take a 1st year course, and technically not violate this requirement.

 

Finally, I would strongly disagree with your comment, "if you don't like their policies, don't bother applying". Frankly, I would approach this from the opposite perspective. If you don't like their policies, apply anyway, and then if you get in, you can act to change them from the inside to benefit those future students who will have to endure the same dilemma all over again.

[Guest applicant too]

"I still would disagree that the requirements are clearly stated. Mac says that you need 2 full YEARS above the 1st year level, not 2 full years of COURSES. I can be in a YEAR above the first year level, yet still take a 1st year course, and technically not violate this requirement."

 

Liana - with no disrespect intended, MAC does explain what they mean when they say YEAR - as per the following quote taken directly from the OMSAS booklet (and it is also on their webpage).

 

"..applicants must have completed a minimum of three years of undergraduate work. A year at McMaster is defined as a minimum of 30 units of course work. Two of the three years must be above level/year one." Have to say it is as clear as day to me - 2/3 of your course load has to be above first year!

 

I feel bad for those applicants that did not understand the requirement but I don't think it is the fault of MAC's wording at all.

 

I wish all well in their pursuit of med school admission.