Guest Ceds Posted May 28, 2003 Report Share Posted May 28, 2003 Hey folks, Here's one for the mods, I'm waiting for Mac admissions to get back to me. Just wondering whether I would be eligible to apply if I were to start my masters in September. I know that graduate work is only considered if complete but am I allowed to apply nonetheless? Thanks, Ceds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jmh2005 Posted May 28, 2003 Report Share Posted May 28, 2003 The only stipulation is that you have the 3 years (2 above the year 1 level), which I'm assuming you do have if you are asking about a Master's. Your Master's work (grades) will only be considered if the whole degree is DONE...so if you are using the Master's to improve your GPA it will only do so after you have the degree (after convocation)... There are many people in my class who still have to finish their Masters (some just finished) and even PhDs...don't worry...but just don't expect to use the marks from the degree unless it is fully complete. This should have no bearing on your application (they do want one of the letters to be from your supervisor, I believe....). Make sure you check the Mac admissions web site, it is all detailed there. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mcmed Posted May 28, 2003 Report Share Posted May 28, 2003 While I am in full agreement with the previous post, I think that you should also consider the impact that starting and leaving a Masters program could have on the professor you are working with as grant money and funds for research can be based on the number of grad students you have working in your lab at any time. I think that if you were to start a Masters degree, it would be fair to let the prof know of your intention to reapply to medical school and possibly leave after one year, as a professional curtosy (assuming that you are doing a two-year master degree and that it is research based). However, you should not let that discourage you from reapplying if Medicine is what you really want With that said, good luck this year!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest j282 Posted May 28, 2003 Report Share Posted May 28, 2003 Not sure who jmh2005 is talking about, but I know for certain that at Mac you must complete your Masters prior to enrolling in the program. This came from a decision made from complaints posed by many profs that found their research interupted by students leaving to go to med school prior to their full term. I'll find the place it says this, and I'll post the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Toe Jam 2000 Posted May 28, 2003 Report Share Posted May 28, 2003 I think things may have changed. I do not know any of this first hand but I know 200% that my friend (DB) decided to do her MA at U o T because Mac specifically required her to finish her degree prior possible enrollment for Sept 2003. She had a brilliant set up in BC (job, great research/supervisor, home, beau...everything) but gave it up to come here because the BC program director could not/would not write a *manditory* letter indicating that she would be finished her degree by Sept 2003. Because the U of T program was an expediatated 8 month degree, the program director here could and did write that letter for her. She is not the type to leave anything without finishing but Mac required an official document indicating that would not be the case. Leaving a program early jeopardizes the integrity of grad programs, it really can have very serious consequences--of course, do your thing but...careful. Good luck with your difficult decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jmh2005 Posted May 28, 2003 Report Share Posted May 28, 2003 OK...Yes, things may have changed since I have applied...however, for my class...I do know of at least two people who DID NOT have their Master's and PhD complete prior to starting. The one person I know of (who is a moderator) finished her thesis in January! THIS SITE IS BY NO MEANS OFFICIAL...ALWAYS GO WITH WHAT IS WRITTEN ON McMASTER MD ADMISSIONS WEBSITE or WHAT IS TOLD TO YOU BY THEM DIRECTLY via EMAIL OR TELEPHONE! WE CAN ONLY PROVIDE WHAT WE LEARNED DURING OUR EXPERIENCE. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Toe Jam 2000 Posted May 28, 2003 Report Share Posted May 28, 2003 Just wanted to qualify my last post: I asked my friend and she said it is actually *written in the application instructions* that a supervisor or director must write the letter and send it directly to OMSAS. She couldn't remember much more than that since she just did as instructed to and didn't give it much thought. Excellent advice about going to the official source, of course. Again, good luck in making those brutal decisions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gucio93 Posted May 28, 2003 Report Share Posted May 28, 2003 Yes, you can apply before finishing your Master's. It will not be calculated towards your GPA unless you had convocation prior to applying. When you do apply prior to finishing, it is ALWAYS with the stipulation that you will indeed finish (that's why some people in the first year class still have not finished - most of them are likely at the thesis stage and just writing up to defend. In order to ensure that you finish your graduate degree, if you apply while being in the process of completing graduate work, you either need one of your reference letters to come from your graduate advisor so that he/she can let admissions know that he/she is aware of your plans and that you have made suitable arrangements to finish your degree even if you get accepted to medical school. If you do not wish your advisor to be one of your referees, Mac requires that you submit a separate letter from your advisor stating that he is aware of your med school application and that you have made plans to finish your graduate degree nevertheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MacMedPlease Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 Hello, I've looked all over the Mac and OMSAS websites and I can't find anything that says that you have to complete your graduate degree if you get into med school. You are required to have your supervisor submit a letter saying that they know you are applying but, it did not state that they have to say you have intentions of finishing the degree...... guicio93 - you said that "When you do apply prior to finishing, it is ALWAYS with the stipulation that you will indeed finish". Can you tell me where that is written? I don't want to phone the admissions office right now (as I'm sure this is a busy time). The reason why I'm asking is because I just finished the first year of my masters (completed all the course requirements)....and if I am blessed with an acceptance to medical school next week, I wasn't planning on doing my thesis (my supervisor is aware of this). Will MacMed make me complete my MSc????? :eek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Toe Jam 2000 Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 You finishing is assumed, I think. They request the letter...not a promise of any kind that you will finish. That is not what I remember writing so if I did write that then I apologize. I do not know for a fact but I don't think they can force you to finish your MSc. I can't see how they could. There is always an asssumption that when starting any grad program that your intention is to finish it. It is akin to "giving your word". By asking for the letter, Mac is assuring that some degree of honesty is being met. DB needed her director to write the length of the program, whether she was doing it f/t, and when she was expected to finish. That is what Mac admin asked for, I think. I'll ask her again if you are really interested but I think I am over annoying her lately so no promises. It can look quite bad on you if you bail...reputations are important in the research/work realm as you are likely well aware. You would indeed be surprised how quiting a program can sneak up on you later on in life. That grad transcript won't go away just because you finished your MD. It may become an issue when you least expect it to--like when you are applying for PG positions, for example. My dad is a Mac grad; he initially gave up his spot to finish his grad degree--that was the advice he was given at the time and he is very glad he did it. You should hear some of the things that he and his friends say about students who, in their eyes, do anything to get into med school...especially when they quit grad programs when the med call is heard. Other than that, he found the grad degree helped him get the placement he wanted, funding, and teaching gigs. There are great perks to finishing. However, it may have no effect on you. Enough people do it; you would in good company, for sure. It is just a chance you take, I guess. From my understanding, asking a supervisor/director to write the letter is Mac's way of assuring that people don't chose grad work as "filler" before they hit the Mac med school jackpot. DB's progam is at most a one year degree and that is very clearly articulated on their programs/website yet Mac wanted that letter from her director--that seems a bit extreme if you ask me. You have to ask yourself why Mac is even concerned--they must not want people to abuse the system. I could also be her program/school??????? Who knows. During her Mac interview, I know for a fact that DB was asked about when her grad program would be finished--none of her interviewers were interested in what she was doing with her grad program or anything else other than the date of completion. It is obviously an issue. Good luck with your acceptance next week. I would JUMP at the acceptance myself but that is just me. The MSc can wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MacMedPlease Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 Thanks for your input. Very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snoopychan Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 Thanks for all the input everyone. I too am in the same position as MacMedPlease. I just finished my first year of MSc and completed all the course work. In my application to Mac this year, they did not request from me any letter regarding the status of my grad work. However, my supervisor was one of my referees. I guess that they just wanted to see that your supervisor is aware of your intention, and that she would not mind me leaving to pursue MED. The only school that "forces" you to finish is U of Toronto. Just a question: Was the letter from your supervisor requested from you, or do you have to take the liberty of sending it in yourself. I never got a request nor read anything about from their website. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Toe Jam 2000 Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 I should have been more clear: I am not writing about my first hand experience. Dannyboy has discussed in other threads what her experiences were. She's my neighbour and very good friend so that is how I know here story so well. It was a huge stressor for her last year. She had to choose between her home and family and applying to Mac this year. Let's hope she made the right decision. I wouldn't have done it. That being stated, I know she had to write the letter at the start of her program--before the OMSAS deadline. I don't know where the instructions are--maybe OMSAS? I will ask DB when I see her next but she is ANAL about instructions. She spent more time on the instructions than she did writing her auto responses (she spent a day on those--I kid you not). I know she chose U of T because her first choice could not/would not write a letter indicating she could/would finish by Sept. 2003--the other program is a thesis MA so it is impossible to predict when you will finish. Finishing in one year had never been done; consequently, her director could not write that it was possible. I know her supervisor was also her referee--they are tight and he is one of her biggest supporters in this MD thing. Isn't that interesting that you didn't have to write a letter? DB's was so specific--she was always told that she would require a transcript upon her completion. So odd. That makes me think that Mac is operating on a "honour" basis--ie, they are not going to force anyone to finish anything as long as they have the basic requirements. They just don't want to compromise the integrity of the system. That's great of them, I think. I know her program is very exclusive (ie small and competitive) so any losses of grad students would be felt--could that be it? My program isn't that way so they could care less if you finish. They want you gone but I don't think they really care if it is with a degree in hand. U of T requires a grad degree be finished before unconditional acceptance? Bizarre. Could that be because Mac very reluctantly gives deferrals? It seems so extreme to turn a worthy applicant away because he/she still has grad work to complete (since you can always go back and complete it at some later time). I am glad you didn't need a letter--who needs the stress? DB's director had never written such a letter so it was a bit of work ensuring that everything was done correctly. Good luck with your acceptances as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snoopychan Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 Thanx Toe Jam. Great name. I am keeping my fingers crossed as the moment of truth is about to play itself out. May one of my four chances work out. Best of luck everyone!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Toe Jam 2000 Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 I should have done this sooner: I just asked DB and she said that the very specific instructions (ie. date of completion, lenght of program, transcripts, etc) she was given were given via an email from Mac admin. and not OMSAS. OMSAS only required a letter from a supervisor/chair/director indicating that they were aware of the applicant's intentions. That was the 'tragic' part--had she only required that she would have chosen her preferred program and stayed in BC. I forgot the soap opera part of her story. Had she chosen BC though, she would still be slugging away at a thesis so I don't feel bad for her. Thesis = feces. She doesn't know about the transcript thing but I don't think that is relevant. She also said that she had been given other advice that turned out to be somewhat incorrect so it is best to keep any correspondance in case questions/problems arise and to just make sure that any official written instructions are followed--apparently you are only responsible for fulfilling those requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MacLady Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 Go to page 10 of www.ouac.on.ca/omsas/pdf/b_omsas_e.pdf . No mention of having to complete the grad degree. I believe Mac just wants to ensure the supervisor is aware of your application. From Mac's web site: Q: How will my graduate degree be used in GPA calculation? Graduate degrees are used only after the degree has been conferred. The following will happen: * If your GPA is < 3.00 on your undergraduate course work, the graduate degree will be assigned the median GPA of the eligible applicant pool for that year only if this is to your advantage. The degree will be treated as a single year and the overall GPA will be recalculated using this. If the recalculated GPA is 3.00 or higher, you will become eligible. If the recalculated GPA is < 3.00, you will remain ineligible. * If your GPA is 3.00 or higher on your undergraduate work, the graduate degree will be assigned the median GPA of the eligible applicant pool for that year, only if this is to your advantage. The degree will be treated as a single year and the overall GPA will be recalculated using this. The higher of the two GPA's will be used. * In the 2003 admissions cycle, the median GPA of the eligible pool was 3.51. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gucio93 Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 To clarify, the above is indeed right in that once you receive an acceptance you will not be forced to finish. However I agree with the above comments that it doesn't look good for you when you bail on a programme. You do have the option of asking for a one year deferral without giving up your spot .. To clarify about the need for a letter from the supervisor: it is either the letter or using the supervisor as one of the referees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.