Guest QM6 Posted September 13, 2003 Report Share Posted September 13, 2003 It's been a while since there's been mention of the Medical Officer Training Plan on the boards, and seeing as how I officially enrolled in yesterday, thought I'd give a bit of an update on how the plan now works (I'm not an official source or anything, but here's how I understand it): - your tuition for (up to) the last 3 years of med school and 2 years family medicine residency are paid by the military. For most schools, this means the earliest you can sign up is 2nd year; for Mac and U of C, you can start in first year. Otherwise, you can sign up anytime during med school, or during a family medicine residency. - they also pay for your books and instruments. - you also get a salary. In 2nd year (1st year for Mac/U of C), your salary is $40 044. In 3rd year, it's $43 176. In 4th year, it's $46 368. (As of March 2003) - then in PGY-1, $49 572, and in PGY-2, $52 752. (This replaces whatever the province would pay you during the family medicine residency.) - you also get a signing bonus - if you sign up in 2nd year, you get $40 000; in 3rd year, $75 000; in 4th year, $110 000; in family PGY-1, $150 000; and in the middle of PGY-2, $180 000. (Get it? So if you sign up later, you miss out on the salary and tuition from years past, but you get a bigger bonus. Still, you would get more by signing up earlier though.) - you're commissioned as a Second Lieutenant in med school, then when you start residency, you're promoted to Lieutenant. - in return, you agree to serve in the military as a Medical Officer (promoted to Captain) for either 3 years (if you're subsidised for 3 years and 10 months or less) or 4 years (if you're subsidised for over 3 years and 10 months). - if you sign up while in med school, you agree to do a family medicine immediately after graduation. You won't be able to do any other residencies until after you complete your 3 or 4 years return of service. - which leads me to some caveats: as the rules now stand, if after your return of service you decide to try to match to a residency programme, you can only join in the second round. Many programmes will already be filled in the first iteration (see the CaRMS stats) and you might not be able to match in the second round. - at some point, you will have to complete Basic Training. I haven't done it yet, so I can't give first hand info on what it's like. Med school curriculum commitments always come first, but if you have a free summer and one of the Basic Training courses will fit in that time, you'll probably end up going. (Remember, you're getting paid for the whole year, so you're expected to be working for the military unless you're in school or on your 4 weeks vacation.) - as I understand it, overseas electives are frowned upon while you're in. So if your heart's set on going abroad, you'll have to weigh your options. - but... you'll get all the travelling opportunities you could ever want once you're out there practicing. You could end up anywhere a doctor's needed - on a base, ship, overseas, etc. - you'll also never have to pay for office rent or secretaries or any other overhead, or do any billing - you'll still be working in civilian health facilities so you won't forget clinical skills you don't see much in the military (eg paeds) - the military will pay you to go to regular CME events - after your 3 or 4 years return of service is up, you can go your merry way, stay on as a family doc, or specialise further (sports med, public/occupational health, internal, psych, orthopaedics, radiology, gen surg, anaesthesiology). You'll continue to get paid during your speciality residency, and you'll be required to serve a certain number of years after that (don't know myself, haven't thought that far ahead yet). It's not for everyone. Having to do family is pretty restrictive for a lot of people, plus as a Medical Officer, you can be sent out to wherever you're needed. The financial benefits are pretty good, but then again, loans will eventually get paid off no matter what you do. But, if you're up for something different and have an open mind, it's something worth looking in to. More info at www.forces.ca/physician, or I can try answering anything that comes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest purine5 Posted September 13, 2003 Report Share Posted September 13, 2003 Actually my final goal is to become a medical officer. Aren't there many requirements, such as passing physical training test (run 100m within 15 sec, mb)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kosmo14 Posted September 13, 2003 Report Share Posted September 13, 2003 I went through the process last spring, but subsequently backed out at the last minute due to some of the caveats QM6 mentioned. To qualify you fill out an app. then select a full day to do your aptitude testing, interview, physical fitness exam, and medical. Aptitude test= one word- joke. Lets assume any med student is fairly intelligent + most have written the MCAT a significantly more challenging exam. Interview- know why you want to do it, what you want out of it, the requirements of the program, all about the Canadian Military, and as with any interview your strengths and weaknesses Physical fitness exam- for the most part is extremely easy if you have some cardiovascular endurance and physical strength. It consists of a step test (they measure your BP and HR then you step up three steps and down to a certain beat, then you get your heart rate measured again if it is a certain rate then you continue on to the second set where the beat is slightly faster, then your heart rate is measured again, then third until you no longer meet the HR requirement, then the test is over, then your BP is taken after 5 minutes of rest. This is then used to supposedly calculate you VO2 max which is then compared against a standard). Essentially if you can run 2.4 km in under 12 mins. you shouldn't have too much trouble getting through this. Next is your situps which you have 1 min to do as many as you can- you have to do 19 or 20 not to sure which one. You also have to do a push up test in which you do as many as you can in a row. The pushups are a bit strange (hands below shoulder level and then go down until arms make 90 degree angle) it seems like it used a lot of triceps to complete the exercise. You are then required to do a grip strength test which I am not to sure what that is all about because I managed to to 48 pushups and the examiner figured there was no point to it. That is all the physical testing required. The medical is a standard P/E (with an MD) + a history and urine test by a physician assistant. You will also have to fill out a few questionaires asking about every instance of alcohol, drug, and illegal activity ever done in your life. Have fun with that one. Who can recall every instance when they have consumed alcohol. Once this day is done you know whether they recommend you for acceptance. Your file then goes to Borden (medical) and the national recruiting. They will then determine whether you are eligible. You will then be offered a conditional offer of enrollment. At this point you still haven't signed your life away, that comes a little bit later. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest purine5 Posted September 13, 2003 Report Share Posted September 13, 2003 Thx!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted September 14, 2003 Report Share Posted September 14, 2003 It's been a while since there's been mention of the Medical Officer Training Plan on the boards, and seeing as how I officially enrolled in yesterday...Hey, congrats on that! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QM6 Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 Thanks! I'll try to keep posting on how it all works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mdgazou Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Hi QM6, There is no information about bonuses on their website. Where did you get that info? Do you get it right when you sign with them? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QM6 Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Hey mdgazou, Looks like they haven't updated their site yet... the signing bonuses were announced in a press release on 2 June 2003, and the details are in CBI 205.52 - Medical Officer Recruitment Allowances. Hope this helps, let me know if you've got more questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dddd Posted September 21, 2003 Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 Just wondering what the actual salary is once you're finished all your training? And also, I see that if you already did your 4 years and want to stay on, you can't get another signing bonus...I wonder why that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QM6 Posted September 21, 2003 Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 Hey dddd, The pay scale is covered under CBI 204.216 - Pay - Medical and Dental Officers. If you scroll down to Table C, it gives you the pay per month. The first four numbers under "Captain" is your salary during your return of service period, it works out to $88 716, then $92 508, then $96 324, and then $100 128. After those four years, you get a rise in salary to at least $120 480. If you go on to specialise, you get a further rise (as seen in Table E). I guess these (plus possible promotion) are the main incentives to stay on, rather than giving another signing bonus. (Edit: Like the site says, "However, as there are regular pay raises in the Canadian Forces, they will increase almost every year.") So, the numbers are a bit below what you'd get in private practice, but remember, no overhead, no billing, none of those other expenses, so for the amount of work involved, it does essentially balance out. Add on the benefits of travel, practicing in different environments, tradition, etc (if they appeal to you, that is), and you come out on top! Hope this helps. Edited for clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kosmo14 Posted September 21, 2003 Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 Hey QM6, just a quick note and probably good news for you is that those salaries stated in your post have increased in the last little while. I believe you start at around 100,000 in your first year as a captain. I can't give you the exact amount because the DND website is down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kosmo14 Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 The defence site is up again. The salary for your first year out of residency in the military (your first year of mandatory service) is: 102132, then 106500 yr 2, 110892 yr3, 115272 yr4. At that time your mandatory time is up and you can leave or stay on. If you stay on you can apply for postgrad training in some specialties (anes., surg., radiology...) or continue as a family doc. Either way you will get paid at the next increment 138708. here is the link to the current salary chart: www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dpp...sidecat=28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QM6 Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Thanks kosmo14! (Maybe their webmasters should get a rise too... help keep things up to date...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dddd Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Any idea how tough it is to get further training, ie in surg after? Do you go do a normal 5 or 6 years of residency in a civilian hospital...and at the elevated salary? I also heard somewhere (maybe on this board, I can't remember) a rumour about DND changing from 3 to 4 years of med school coverage, have any of you heard about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QM6 Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Hey dddd, I don't know how "tough" it is to specialise afterwards, but I understand that you would have to let the military know that you want to, and subject to if they wanted/needed people in that speciality, you could apply to. Not sure of the details myself (not really interested in specialising) but it is a normal Royal College residency, and you do get paid by the military during your training, but I'm not sure exactly at what scale. Your best bet is to email the address provided at the physician recruiting website. As for moving to full 4-year coverage, not sure about that one. I guess the new signing bonus just about covers any expenses you'd have from first year med. Maybe they just want to make sure you wouldn't drop out/fail out too soon? (Aside - out of everyone that drop out/fails out of med school, does it happen mostly in first year or is it evenly spread out over the whole programme?) In other MOTP news, got my uniform today - must start getting those boots polished... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest medicator007 Posted September 23, 2003 Report Share Posted September 23, 2003 QM6, If i remember correctly.... upon signing with MOTP u are assigned a uniform from either army, navy or airforce.. what did u get, or am i mistaken? Medicator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QM6 Posted September 24, 2003 Report Share Posted September 24, 2003 Hey medicator, That's right, you pick what uniform you get, but in the end it doesn't really matter since you'll be posted wherever needed. I just chose Navy 'cause even though it won't help me get a posting out to sea, it won't hurt... plus I think I look better in black than green or blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest medicator007 Posted September 24, 2003 Report Share Posted September 24, 2003 Cool! There is something special about the naval uniforms, I'll give you that! Medicator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyciol Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 This sounds like a really great opportunity, and it is a great opportunity for many to find satisfaction since you can both help take care of soldiers and probably also civilians who may get hurt in the midst of conflicts with insurgents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Cool! There is something special about the naval uniforms, I'll give you that! Medicator probably the sword you get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSmith19 Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Wohhh dude..I'm trippin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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