Why Queens?

[Guest Nehpets]

Hey,

 

I was wondering if some of the current and former Queens medical students could talk about what they like and don't like about the Queens program.

 

Thanks very much,

N.

[Guest ET]

Hey. First off, let me apologize on behalf of my classmates for not responding earlier to your post. We have spring break now, so a lot of us (not me) are out of town vacationing. Why come to Queen's? I'll try to touch on some of the things that are important to me. Hopefully they apply to you too.

For one, the class size is (relatively) small. We have 100 ppl in the class... small compared to U of T (198), Western (133), Ottawa (123), Mac (138).

Small class size means knowing your peers better and a stronger sense of cohesiveness. Along these lines, our class is not competitive. Rather, we go out of our way to provide comprehensive study notes to help us all get through exams. This trend seems to be the case every year.

On the topic of exams, we only have exams at the end of each semester. For example, there are 3 finals in December - one multiple choice, one short answer and one anatomy lab exam. This examination technique may or may not work for you.

The curriculum, although not perfect, is pretty good. After Phase I in first year, the blocks of material are pretty well organized with mostly great teachers (at least thus far for us first year students... can't speak for 2nd/3rd year). There are frequently tutorials or other smaller group assignments that allow you to get to know people in the class other than those you usually sit with.

For clinical skills, we start one month into the year and you'll know how to do a physical by December of 1st year. We have the most OSCE sessions of all Ontario schools, because Queen's stresses the clinical skills aspect of our education.

Another reason for Queen's - Kingston is great. I found that at York or U of T, it was very hard to get involved in activities outside of class due to the "commuter" school atmosphere. Here, everyone lives so close to campus that it's hard not to get involved. Downtown Kingston is basically one long street and it has everything (almost) that you need.

Finally, the best reason to come to Queen's is to meet the class of 2009.

Now, if you can find someone to give an answer to "why NOT Queen's?" then you can make a pros/cons list. Good luck with the decision.

[Guest BCSarah]

My Top 3 CONS to Queens:

 

1. Freezing rain

2. Lack of fast, healthy food

3. The class of 2008 - they smell funny

 

But I really love Queen's - for all the reasons that Elisha mentioned and a few more. Boming from BC, I love the fact that we are still on the water.. and yes, I've swam in it, and yes, I likely have brain damage from it but atleast I have something on which to blame my stupidity. Everything is in walking distance, which is fantastic since I definitely had to sell my car before coming here. Produce is ridiculously cheap at Food Basics, where Pineapples sell for $2.50. And if you bring your own mug, steaming coffee is only $1 outside our class. AND, most of our classes are in one room in first year - which makes the freezing rain far less of an issue. The library is also adjoined - and it's a lot easier to stay at school and study when there are blizzards outside with gail force winds.

 

The people here are a riot and I am constantly amazed by my classmates. And not just in academic pursuits, but in that they are collectively a kind, generous, fun and dynamic group - all keen to help each other along this long and overwhelming road.

 

Good luck in the interview process and hopefully you'll make the decision that's right for you!

 

Cheers,

Sarah

[Guest CareBear15]

I really hope you're not really insulting the class of 2008 and you're just joking... because if I'm not mistaken us '08s showed you a pretty good time in Kingston last year.

 

Don't hate us 'cuz we're beautiful.

[Guest treehuggingbiologist]

I know someone who's at queens now. She's a hottie and definitely a plus for going there.

 

Um ... i'll stop now (with my luck she's a mod )

[Guest el pansito]

Hey there,

 

Is the grading system at Queen's pass / fail?

 

Thanks,

 

MS

[Guest BCSarah]

Hi there,

 

At Queen's it's honours (80%+), pass, and fail. And exams are only in December and May, for first year.

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence on that other thread - I love that it will probably get the flashy thing for 'hot topic' soon. Oh dear.. I have to laugh.

 

cheers and good luck!

[Guest el pansito]

Hey Sarah & other students,

 

How do you find the december and may exams? Is it....pretty intense only having one exam per semester? I mean, for those procrastinators out there (ahem....not me), it just seems like this would be a ridiculous exam.

Are there any incentives or strategies to keep you on track and studying throughout the semester?

 

Also, is there any sort of rural week / discovery week during first year, where you spend a week in a rural community with a GP?

 

Thanks,

 

MS

[Guest ET]

El Pans,

 

To answer your Q's... Exams are rough - I won't lie. But you get through it just like any other exam cram. If you can get through the MCAT you can get through anything, and our Phase I (Dec) exams weren't too bad. I mean, most people didn't start studying intensely until mid-Nov. As well, since it's usually a multiple choice and then a short-answer exam, you find you cover the same topics for all your studying time anyway. Your social life during the year doesn't have to suffer in light of end-of-year finals.

Indeed, we do have a "week in the country" after finals in Phase IIA (first year, end of May). Students, usually in groups of 3 or so, go to a rural community and tag along with a GP or possibly a specialist for 4-5 days. If you stick around in Kingston for the summer after 1st year, you can also do the 6-week rotating observership program, where you spend a week at a time shadowing (and hopefully assisting) diff docs in diff specialties.

-Elisha

[Guest el pansito]

Thanks Elisha,

 

How about international opportunities at Queen's? I'm quite interested in global health (plus I love to travel)....are there opportunities for electives abroad or international health programs for the summer?

 

Also, is there a focus on community / public health at Queen's? I'm thinking of doing an MPH sometime during or after MD, just wondering how much this aspect of medicine is stressed at Queen's.

 

Thanks,

Mike

[Guest coastalslacker]

Most electives abroad and international health programs are not set up specifically for Queens students. That said, the CFMS has good programs for both research and clinical experience abroad that Queens students, both first and second year, go on every summer. Unfortunately, there aren't alot of spots for that (from any school) and it is by lottery. There is Queens medical outreach, which usually runs something every summer and is an interdisciplinary organization. Again, not alot of spots-2 second years are going, and I don't think any first years are going. There are three groups of students going to Kenya this summer to work in a rural clinic (4 second years, and two groups of 1st years, one group of 4, one of 2). Last year was the first year that medical students went to this clinic, and the plan is for it to be something that Queens medical students go to every year. That's all I know of that there are spots specifically reserved for Queens students.

 

That said, I think most med students who do things abroad set things up themselves rather than going through their school. For example, there is a large group of first and second year students going to the Indian Himalayans this summer with an organization called (I think) Himilayan Health. They have to pay to go but, from what people who went last year have said, it's an amazing experience and totally worth the hit to the line of credit. Or you can try to set something informal up though Canadian doctors who volunteer abroad. A buddy and I are going to spend a month in Ghana with a family doc from Wawa who goes to Africa twice a year.

 

With regards to the community/public health aspect...here we call that CHE, for community health and epidemiology. Many Queens medical students will tell you that these are the most useless lectures imaginable-I agree, and haven't been to anything CHE related since October of 1st year. Yet, I must admit that however poorly it is done, they do seem to be trying to place an emphasis on epidemiology.

 

Oh, and for more reasons about why to go to Queens check posts from last year if they haven't disappeared. I think alot of people answered then. I like Queens because Kingston is nice, the people are friendly, and the school's pretty slack. On the downside, I wish I were starting clerkship in September, rather than having to wait until January.....not that I'm in a rush for my life as I know it to end, I'm just tired of the "school" aspect, ready to do some real work.

[Guest JewelLeigh]

I think I remember from when I applied that one thing I didn't like about Queen's was that clerkship doesn't start until January of 3rd year as opposed to most other schools (I think...) that start right away in September. Is this still the case? Any thoughts on that? 4 months less of clinical work seems fairly significant to me...how do Queen's students find that works for them?

 

Anyway...just a thought

[Guest coastalslacker]

As far as I know, the amount of clinical work at Queens is the same as for most schools. The only school that I know of that does 2 full years of clerkship is Toronto. Many other schools have a "back-to-basics" semester for the final four months (ie Western), where they review important concepts and do other things that will be on the national exams such as community health stuff. In contrast, Queens starts clerkship in January of 3rd year, and runs it right to the end of 4th year. Personally, I could not imagine going back to the classroom after having done clerkship, it must be brutally boring.

 

As to how Queens students do with 4 months less clinical work than the few schools that do have 2 full years...Queens students always seem to match well. The negative of starting late, for most people, is that your electives are very early in clerkship, so you have to have an idea of what you want to go into before clerkship even begins, and plan your electives accordingly. I guess we also have less clerkship experience when we go away on electives, but our clinical skills program is very good, and that is supposed to make up for it. Again, all's well that ends well, and Queens students do well in the carms match.

[Guest peachy]

however, I've heard they need 2 full years because the clinical skills training they get in the first 2 years is abysmal!

Our clinical skills in the first two years is pretty much the same as any other school. We have at least a half-day per week of clinical skills from the beginning of first year until the end of second year, which is fairly typical. We have OSCE's, etc. Our clinical skills training is certainly not "abysmal". Don't go around making things up about other schools in order to explain away deficiencies in your own curriculum!

[Guest kahone]

I've never heard anything about U of T and clinical skills deficiencies, and certainly no friends who are current students have ever complained about it.

 

As for Queen's, there's no "need" to start clerking that late, something that may get rectified in future curriculum changes. A downside is exams at the end of fourth year...oops! what is it? 10 days of "protected" time to prepare, while everyone else is loafing in review/prep/study mode for a month? Right, you *could* study before hand too, but wait, oh yeah, you're still clerking. It's a bit silly, Queen's could use a good restructure...just done right.

[Guest JewelLeigh]

Dalhousie also does clinical hospital work from September of 3rd year until graduation. This is on top of 1 day per week, if not more of clinical work during the first two years of med school.

 

So...although queen's is not alone in the reduced amount of clinical hospital work later in medical school, it is something different about queen's compared to some medical schools, and thus is something applicants should consider when choosing a school.

[Guest Sarah371]

Just a thought about clerkship.....at Queen's when you are a clerk you are a clerk.....you don't go home at midnight, go to lectures for half the day or have a set number of patients that are assigned to you. I would argue that if you added up total number of hours spent clerking that Queen's would be very similar to the other schools in Ontario.

 

Now I am two years out I can honestly say that starting clerkship 3-4 months late while really frusterating did not hurt my class in getting the matches they wanted.

 

As for studying for the LMCC I if you had four months to study you would drive yourself crazy....it is not an exam you can cram for.....parts yes, but you can do well by reading around the cases that you see in clerkship.

 

Queen's has a different take than a lot of schools with their curriculum but they are not deficient by any stretch of the imagination.

 

SARAH

[Guest coastalslacker]

apologies for the comment re. Toronto's clinical skills. T'was just hearsay, and thus shouldn't have been included in my post. I've edited it out.

[Guest peachy]

Thanks, coastalslacker.

[Guest CareBear15]

International health at Queen's is kick-ass. A lot of hard-working folks of the Global Health Working Group have made incredible gains... there are now numerous international health bursaries available and an international health elective database is in the works. This summer for example, ten medical students are volunteering at a medical clinic in Kenya. Students have gone to Rwanda, Angola, Ecuador, India, you name it - everyone is always willing to share their experience and help out. This summer there is also a multi-disciplinary health team (OT, PT, meds, nurses) heading to Cuba. In a nutshell, Queen's is awesome for international health opportunities and while there is not much dedicated per se in the curriculum, gains are being made.

[Guest CareBear15]

Oh and I totally forgot to write about public health/community health and epidemiology.

 

This is HUGE at Queen's. There are a few med students here who have done masters in CHE at Queen's. There's also going to be a new school dedicated to the subject (sorry I don't know the exact details).

 

Basically, we're shoved down our throats with tons of CHE.