Guest mdhopeful23 Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 could someone provide me a lil info on electives and/or clerkships. im wondering if theyre all done in the london area or is their opportunities to branch out into other major cities (ie. toronto, hamilton, ottawa) or overseas... thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DrTK Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Hi mdhopeful23! I also really would like to know the answer to this question...especially the overseas part as I would LOVE to work overseas!!! Any help from UWO moderators? DrTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aneliz Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Clerkship (3rd year) is done in London or Windsor (your choice). You may spend 0, 3, 6 or 12 months in Windsor...and although you may state a preference (Windsor vs London) there are no guarantees about where you will end up...so be aware of that before you accept UWO (it is on the main faculty website...). Clerkship starts in the first week after Labour day and goes until the last week of Aug. During that time, you have a week off in December (not necessarily Christmas) and a week off in March. The rest of the time you are on clinical rotations. You rotate through all of the major disciplines - 12 weeks each of surgery and medicine and 6 weeks each of paeds, family, psych and ob/gyn. You are required to do AT LEAST 4 weeks outside of London and Windsor in a 'rural' location. This can be anywhere from St Thomas (20 minutes from London) to Sioux lookout...all depends where you want to go. Most people do their 4 rural weeks during family medicine, but you can also do paeds, psych or ob/gyn rural. At the end of third year/beginning of 4th year, you have four 4-week blocks of elective time. You can choose to do your electives wherever you want - all in London, none in London, international, in Toronto, in Halifax, etc. It is up to you...and it is also up to you to arrange them with other schools if you want to do them outside of London...so it is also dependent on what you can get too...all schools accomodate their own students first. Sometimes it is just not possible to do X at school Y because school Y is not willing to take outside students to do X. The only stipulation on electives is that they are not supposed to be all in the same discipline - ie you can't do four straight months of family medicine. Other than that elective = elective and you do what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DrTK Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Hi Aneliz! Thanks for that answer...it really clears things up! You're doing an awesome job as moderator!! DrTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mdhopeful23 Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 yea, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Yeah, thanks Aneliz. I was going to answer this one but you beat me to it. To add to what Aneliz said (which was all correct) and provide a personal touch, I'd just like to add that I'm currently planning on doing 8 weeks of 4th year electives in South Africa. You can plan your 4th year electives for almost anywhere in the world. And while clerkship is technically all in Southwestern Ontario, exceptions have been made. It's not easy, but it is possible to transfer schools for family reasons (ie marriage, illness in the family.) We've had two students join our class this year for clerkship, for that reason. And rumour is one of my classmates is doing some parts of their clerkship in Toronto, once again so that they can spend more time with their spouse. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pflag Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Hey guys, First, thanks for all your valuable input, in particular to the UWO Meds Moderators... this forum has been very helpful over the past year! I'm really impressed with the program at Western. The only thing that's nagging at me before checking the "firm acceptance" on the UWO OMSAS form is the possibility of spending 12 months in Windsor... the primary reason being that I have a strong inclination towards the paeds specialties and would really prefer to spend at least that rotation in London (at or near the CHWO!). I wouldn't mind spending part of the year in Windsor, but as one of the major appeals of UWO is the quality of clinics and research coming out of the London Health Sciences Center (and not having received much information on the Windsor facilities or faculty) I remain hesitant about selecting UWO given the 24/133 odds that I'd end up in Windsor... So to put forth a question, rather than just my own rambling: in the upcoming year (2004-5), how many of the 24 Windsor-bound clerks had ranked Windsor as their preferred clerkship site? Also, is there opportunity to submit preferences for location of individual rotations (ie paeds) prior to 3rd year? Thanks in advance for any advice you guys may have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest therealcrackers Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Apparently, about 9 people in the 2006 class have elected to do the entire 12 months in Windsor. There is no volunteering by force to get people to go for an entire year. The rest of the participants in the Windsor program have picked 3 or 6 months, and there is a spot on the form to pick which rotations you want. Obs and paeds go together, as do psych and family; medicine and surgery are each a 3-month block. The clerkship groups lottery and Windsor selection forms are given out in December of 2nd year, submitted in January, and the results are out by the end of January. You can also choose to do all of your rotations in London. In my class (2005), 9 people picked Windsor full-time, and several students went down for a single 6-week block (like obstetrics: higher volume of babies for the clerks to deliver since there are no residents there in obstetrics). The single block option is a logistical nightmare when there are a lot of students involved, so that is no longer an option. When all of this was being discussed with my class, one of the clerks asked a similar question to yours; "If we tick the box for Windsor, does that mean we're at greater risk of going there for the whole year?" The answer in that case was no, but the clerk in question is spending 3 months in Windsor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aneliz Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Nobody was forced to go to Windsor this year...and there are only 9 people headed there for the whole 12 months (all by choice...most are Windsor/Chatham residents and wanted to go home). The rest of us (probably 75% of the class) are each doing 3-6 months in Windsor. I am doing 3 months - psych and family medicine. You have a choice of what blocks you would be willing to spend in Windsor...ie you could say that you are willing to do surgery or family/psych but not paeds. That said, some disciplines are in demand in Windsor...(thought to be better in Windsor than London) and ob/gyn, surgery, psych and paeds are the ones that are in demand. Paeds in Windsor is far more organised and better presented than London.... you get a lot more individual attention from faculty and a lot better 'teaching' in terms of organised presentation based didactic teaching....and you are really not missing out on any clinical exposure that you get in London. In clerkship paeds, you spend 2 weeks doing paeds emerg, 2 weeks doing paeds general inpatient (ie kids with RSV in the winter) and 2 weeks doing an elective (cardiology, NICU, developmental, community paeds, oncology). And you bounce from consultant to consultant during the 6 weeks...In Windsor, you spend the whole 6 weeks directly supervised by an amazing doc...who really, really wants to teach med students. Windsor has pretty much everything that London has (it has an NICU, etc) but it DOESN'T have many residents (there are a few there...all London residents spend some time in Windsor), meaning that there is a lot more opportunity for you to *do* things. Don't worry about getting exposure to CHWO during clerkship....that is what 4th year electives are for! The same is true of ob/gyn and surgery....people that go to Windsor do up to 50 deliveries....in London, the average is ~4...big difference. Windsor also has high risk....they have a few Ob/gyn subspecialists....so it is not like everything that is interesting gets transfered out. In surgery, you are first assist....and they do pretty much everything that London does...the only exception is that there is no 'on-pump' surgery....but the only time you would see that in London as a clerk is if you selected cardiac surgery as a 2-week selective. Windsor has neurosurg, plastics, orthopedics, etc. In my class there were not a lot of people that wanted to go to Windsor for the whole year...but there were definitely a lot of people competing to get these rotations in Windsor and go for 3-6 months...and some people didn't get what they wanted...in that they are staying in London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chiapet921 Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 wow...from what's been said above, spending time in Windsor now does seem to be quite attractive! guess its still early to ask, but it may help with the housing question. would you have to look for a place to live in windsor if say, I'm going to spend the full 12 months there? or would there be housing provided? since if I'm going to be away from london after 2nd yr, it'll put a different spin if I'm renting/buying etc etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aneliz Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 If you go to Windsor for 9-12 months, you are responsible for finding your own housing there...although the faculty will pay moving expenses. If you are there for 3-6 months, you will be provided with housing (there are about 6 houses right across the road from Windsor regional hospital that have been renovated and furnished (nicely too!) as med student housing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pflag Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 Thanks therealcrackers and aneliz! I definitely had some misconceptions about the Windsor program and you guys (and some ladies at the SWOMEN office) have cleared up my concerns... I may even want to REQUEST windsor for paeds now What was extra-appealing was the furnished apartments provided for students who clerk in Windsor- free of charge (or so they said at the SWOMEN office)!!! I think the admissions office would be wise to provide students with a bit more info on the Windsor clerkship program in future admissions rounds... to think that it nearly turned me off of the 'bestern' of med schools! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 I'm going to Windsor for Obs/gyn by request. At one point this was almost vetoed (admin stuff) and I felt stong enough about it to protest. Why? I'm not interested in Obstetrics for a career. But I definitely want to know how to deliver a baby just in case I'm ever on a plane and one of the passengers decides to deliver! I certainly wouldn't want to be one of those MDs who can't remember how to deliver when confronted with such a situation. Otherwise, I'd just be wasting 6 weeks with Obs/gyn. So. . . In an academic Obstetrics centre (ie London), there are up to dozens of obstetrics residents and about a dozen of your fellow students, all competing to deliver kids (not to mention Obs/gyn + Family Obs/gyn + Midwives.) I think the average number of deliveries for a London clerk is 3-4, and I have friends who didn't get even that many opportunities. In Windsor, there are only a few clerks (4 my rotation but usually there's only 2-3) and often not even any residents competing for deliveries. The population of Windsor is 200k - still about 1/2 that of London's. Do the math - last year one of the Windsor clerks (who was particularly eager) delivered 29 kids in their Obs/gyn rotation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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