Only 4 classes ??!!!

[Guest K2Optimist]

I was hoping someone could shed some light on this question:

 

What does one do if they want to go to Western but only decided this AFTER completing their undergrad degree and they only took 4 classes a semester during their entire undergrad degree?

[Guest aneliz]

You need to have at least two full-time years (in which you took 5.0 full or equivalent courses between Sept and April) that are over western's GPA cut-off (still to be determined for meds 2007 but usually between 3.55-3.7) to be eligible for Western. Unfortunately this is a strict requirement that will not be waived under any circumstances...(that I am aware of). This requirement ensures that everyone's GPA's are comparable (theoretically equivalent workload) and also proves that you can keep up with the academic demands that you will be faced with in medicine. At UWO, the first year course load is 8 full courses, two of which are double weighted, which gives you an equivalent course weight of 10.0. (Double what was full-time in undergrad).

 

As far as I see it, your only options at this point are to do another two years of undergrad on a full-time basis (five courses at a time between Sept-April). If you start in September you can do one of these years and then, assuming that it is likely to be over the pre-req GPA, apply while you are doing your second year. This may require you to begin a second degree. I know that western will recognise one further year of undergrad study after you have completed your degree but I am not sure about their feelings on two. You might want to check the FAQ's on the faculty of medicine website or call/e-mail Darla in the admissions office. (contact info is on the faculty website.)

 

Good luck.

[Guest K2Optimist]

Thanks for the info.

 

Does Western consider graduate work? Could one get a Master's degree rather than another undergrad degree? Or would Western still look at one's undergrad grades despite a Master's degree?

[Guest UWOMED2005]

No, it has to be undergrad. Sorry.

[Guest therealcrackers]

U of T and McMaster will take graduate degrees into account. Western does not. For McMaster, the degree has to be FINISHED before the application process begins to be considered in your application. Western, U of T, and most other schools require that the graduate degree be completed before school starts if you get an acceptance.

 

I remember a couple of people who took 4 courses a year and 5 years to complete their degrees... they did so for medical reasons (lupus was one, and I forget the other). They were not, however, applying to medicine. Such circumstances would be mitigating factors, but the best thing to do is get the information directly from the admissions offices of the various schools.

 

Part of it is a reflection of the workload a student would have at medical school; if you can show that with a full 5-course load, you can still maintain outstanding marks, then you have a chance of bearing the even heavier courseload of undergraduate medicine (10 equivalents in first year, 8 in second year but the work doesn't decrease!).

 

Good luck!

[Guest aneliz]

Western really doesn't care if you have a grad degree...it is not used AT ALL in your admission decision. They will use your undergrad marks to calculate your GPA regardless of how many grad degrees you have. All they care is that you are FINISHED (ie degree in hand or soon will be) your grad degree before you register....and they will not let you defer to accomplish this either....so, moral of the story....don't apply to western if there is no way that you can be finished your grad degree by Aug 28 of the year you are applying in! And, if your undergrad doesn't meet the specifications, a grad degree isn't going to change anything....

[Guest K2Optimist]

Thank you for all your informative answers!

 

Let me follow up with another question ... I have taken all the pre-requisites for medical school (organic, physics, etc) but - as I have mentioned - only 4 classes a semester. So ... if I return for additional undergrad classes, (a) do I NOT repeat any classes? and ( would Western look at my grades for the pre-requisites when I took only 4 classes a semester and my overall GPA for my additional studies at 5 classes a semester?

[Guest UWOMED2005]

The answers to your questions are. . .

 

a) Do NOT repeat any classes. There's no reason to, and furthermore, I'm not sure you'd get credit the second time you took the courses.

 

Your applying GPA will be based on your full two years, NOT your prerequisites at all. You just have to have passed the prerequisites.

 

As long as you have the prerequisites, feel free to study ANYTHING in those extra two years: Art history, music, anatomy, classics. . . it doesn't matter as long as you take a full courseload and get the minimum GPA (ranges between 3.55 and 3.7).

[Guest K2Optimist]

Super

 

Thanks for your help!

[Guest aneliz]

DO NOT (under any circumstances) repeat anything....Western will not let you count any year in which you repeated a course as a full-time year.....so, you would be defeating the purpose of doing more undergrad years because you would not be eligible to use them!

[Guest K2Optimist]

So 2 more years of undergrad work will grant me the privelage to have Western at least LOOK at my application.

 

I assume these classes should be upper-level, but I wonder if they require the completion of another degree or if simply two years of a full course load is sufficient?

[Guest peachy]

If you're gonna spend two more years in school anyways, why not at least pick up a degree while you're at it?

[Guest K2Optimist]

So if one is to invest 2 years and return to the toils of undergrad, is it best to attend one of the medical schools in Ontario and possibly do some research with a faculty member? Is it less-than-optimal to go to a non-medical school? One can still do research at these institutions, but perhaps it is just less clinically relevant?

 

Please share your thoughts, comments, etc!!

[Guest aneliz]

I really don't think going to one of the schools with a med school will make or break your application...personally, I went to Guelph for my undergrad....I did research through the department of biomedical science at the Ontario Vet. College...very clinically relevant stuff...but no med school.

 

A large number of people in our class came from undergrad schools without a med school....in some ways, I think it might be easier to find good research opportunities as an undergrad at a non-med school....not so many med keeners around to compete with! There is plenty of high quality, medically relevant research going on at many of the Ontario schools...and not just the med schools. You need to pick a school and a program where you will feel comfortable, that suits your goals and learning style and where you wiil be able to do well. Going to UofT or UWO for undergrad will not improve your chances of getting into their med schools....just as going to a small school like Laurier won't decrease your chances of getting into meds....

[Guest TimmyMax]

It sure won't, Aneliz!!!

[Guest peachy]

The fact that your undergrad school doesn't make a difference is supported by admissions stats, and often the admissions staff are willing to give out the specific numbers if you ask them.

 

For example, for applications to U of T meds last year, both York and U of T students had roughly a 1 in 8 registration/application ratio, which is virtually identical to the pool as a whole (about 200 registered of 1600 apps).

 

I don't have stats for UWO, but the relative ratios are probably very similar at all the Ontario schools.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Even in terms of research, the research opportunities you'd get anywhere as an undergrad would almost certainly be wet-lab work. At a University with a med school, you might get to do research in a department (ie Biochem, Micro, Physiology) within the faculty of medicine, but it would probably still be "wet" or "lab" research.

 

Besides - research is research. The admissions committee will be impressed you have research at all - it doesn't have to be "clinical," yet. (BTW - Residencies sometimes prefer clinical research. . . but you have tons of time for that!)

[Guest K2Optimist]

Thanks for all your feedback! I totally agree with Aneliz that it is very important to feel comfortable at your chosen institution. I should clarify, and see if you agree, my reference to "clinically relevant" research. I wasn't referring to clinical research, but rather molecular or physiologically research geared towards clinical pathology. I think, and maybe I'm wrong, that schools like UW may aim their biochem, molecular, etc departments at interesting but non-medical relevant projects, whereas a medical school department will take the molecular research and apply it more towards a clinical disease or pathology.

[Guest peachy]

As a general rule, yeah there will be lots of directly-clinically-relevant research at a school with a medical school. Of course.

 

BUT there will also be directly-clinically-relevant stuff at any school that is a research institution - which pretty much includes any university in Canada. E.g. York doesn't have a medical school, but "Health Research" is still one of the research foci of the university, and lots of good research is being done which has many undergraduates involved.

 

Don't just guess - take a look at the website of the schools you are thinking about. Take a look at the Kine, Biol and Chem websites in particular. There will be a list of faculty and their research interests, and you can get a look firsthand at what kind of research is being done where.