getting in w/o a degree vs. with an honours degree

[Guest mesoderm]

Does it actually matter?

 

I'm thinking if one just want to be a family doc, then it probably doens't make much difference.

 

What if one wants to be a specialist? Would an honours degree help?

 

What if one wants to do research after med-school?? I'd say its pretty obvious that one needs an honours degree to do this. So it will be very difficult to do research if one goes into med-school directly after 3 years of undergrad? Or would it still be possible??

 

thanks for your input!

 

P.S. I'm an undergrad and I know that i shouldn't worry about this, but i'm just curious

[Guest Ian Wong]

Your Honours degree will likely mean absolutely zero when it comes time to applying for residencies. The residency program directors are going to be focussing most of their attention on your performance during medical school, particularly in your two final years of medical school, as that's most representative of the clinical work you'd be doing in residency.

 

As far as research in and after med school goes, I doubt that an Honours degree has a huge bearing on that either. People who get in after three years of undergrad are just as capable of turning out into academic physicians as anyone else, as long as the personal motivation is there along with the appropriate mentors and role models. Do the Honours degree if you enjoy it, (or if it's required for your medical school), but you probably won't be a worse doctor if you didn't do it.

 

Ian

[Guest ioncannon97]

Then why are more and more schools moving towards requiring a 4 year honours (e.g. recent announcement by Western and accepted announcements by the rest of the Ontario schools)?

[Guest seonagh]

So many applicants, so few spots. In all seriousness I can only imagine that the view is that it is one way to ensure a certain "standard" of academic maturity so to speak.

 

Imperfect system, imperfect world but I can appreciate that narrowing down the great numbers of decent applicants to find the 100 or so great fits for the program in question it has got to be difficult.

 

In most universities, to do an honours degree there are academic standards that must have been met each and every year of the degree and some amount of independant work/researching that would have gone on.

 

This is in no way official but just my thoughts on this.

 

Seonagh

[Guest Ian Wong]

Then why are more and more schools moving towards requiring a 4 year honours (e.g. recent announcement by Western and accepted announcements by the rest of the Ontario schools)?

I assume that it's a way of standardizing the application process a little more in order to make the logistics of evaluating applicants more simple. It certainly isn't because having an Honours degree helps you when getting residencies, or because it's a huge stepping stone towards turning out academic physicians, which is all I was trying to get at.

 

Ian

[Guest mitchie41]

Does anyone know which med schools are going to move towards accepting students with honours degrees only?

 

 

Thanks.

[Guest klukyboy]

It sounds like a bad move to me. U of A med used to give honours applicants extra points, but had to stop because it caused the honours programs to be overloaded with applicants. If more schools move towards an honours requirement, the entrance average for these programs will take a huge jump. I'd hate to think that future doctors will be ultimately chosen based on how well they did in high school.

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

Does anyone know which med schools are going to move towards accepting students with honours degrees only?

 

Based on what I heard at the HBSU medical school symposium, it sounds as though all the Ontario schools are taking a serious look at adopting the Honours or four-year degree requirement. Also, given that some schools are no longer offering three-year degrees, it seems more likely then, that other medical programs may lean towards the four-year degree direction, if not already (e.g., McGill).

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest moo]

I think this requirement is ridiculous. At some schools (U of A, UBC) you can get in currently with only 90 credits while at Ontario schools you would not only need a degree but an honors degree? How does this work? This lack of uniformity is going to wreak havoc on the pre-medical community.

 

I am all for requiring a four year degree before med school but I think this is taking it too far. And this is from someone who has a four years combined honors degree in math and physics. Most of my friends have done honors degree in one form or another (physiology, biochem) and the amount you learn in undergrad really is nothing compared to med school.

[Guest cheech10]

It's just credential inflation continuing, one of the hallmarks of most professions. Keep setting the bar higher and restricting entry to the profession and you get an aura of mystique, a limit to the supply which guarantees higher income for your members, and just generally get to act and feel elitist.

[Guest moo]

I doubt the general public really understands the difference between an honors and a regular degree and someone with no bachelors degree who all have an MD. All they know and care is that he/she is a doctor and that they will be well taken care of.

[Guest cheech10]

Right, but it's a continuing process. We started with acceptance to med school after high school, then needed 2 years of undergrad, then 3, soon 4. 1/4 of students already have graduate degrees. What's next? Already many residency programs / appointments in downtown hospitals want graduate degrees completed. Cardiac surgery here wants PhDs completed as part of residency. So where does it stop? And what purpose does it really serve?

[Guest mesoderm]

Does anyone know why then UofT "recommends" the completion of a degree before med-school??

 

This is what it says on the UT website: "An applicant who has been accepted into the M.D. program who has not completed his/her undergraduate degree will be encouraged to request deferred admission in order to complete such a degree.

 

We strongly recommend that such degrees be obtained prior to enrolment."

[Guest moo]

Agreed. Case in point: MD/PhD programs. Most of these MD/PhDs either go into practice or go into basic science research only. If you have an MD only you can still do research (albeit clinical research), whereas if you have a PhD only, you can do basic science research. So what really is the point of having both? Unless you plan on doing both clinical practice and basic science research, but these are few and far in between, really.

 

All med schools encourage you to finish your degree before matriculating. It's the politically correct thing to do, and I guess that extra year of schooling matures you even more.

[Guest everyoneloveschem]

Really though, why not raise the bar if you can? Look at how Mac acceptances have changed over the past couple years (average GPA has been creeping up).

 

Yes people without honours degrees would/can make good physicians, but an extra year of university (especially a year in which you are undertaking your own project, which is YOUR responsibility) can't hurt. One more year to a) gain maturity gain experience in research c) likely gain experience writing and presenting research d) one more year to make sure Medicine is what you want.

 

Plus if the candidate really wants to get in they'll wait that extra year. Unless you are becoming a neurosurgeon, what is one extra year? Later you may appreciate it anyways.

[Guest aneliz]

Yes people without honours degrees would/can make good physicians, but an extra year of university (especially a year in which you are undertaking your own project, which is YOUR responsibility) can't hurt. One more year to a) gain maturity gain experience in research c) likely gain experience writing and presenting research d) one more year to make sure Medicine is what you want.

 

Exactly the way that UWO admin sees it...

[Guest moo]

Really though, why not raise the bar if you can?

 

I'm not really against raising the bar GPA-wise or even the four year degree thing, in fact, I am quite for that and think all schools should require their applicants to have a degree). That's fine, but the fact that you HAVE TO do an honors degree is what bothers me. North American medical education has always prided itself on the fact that it draws its students from all walks of life--whether it be from the arts, or sciences, or nursing or whatever. My point is someone who did a regular majors degree in, say Economics, worked in the financial sector for a while, and all of a sudden now decides he/she wants to go into medicine will have a really tough time having to do the prereqs and ANOTHER degree just to have the designation "honors." It just doesn't make sense to me.