Guest avarrin2001 Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 Hi Everyone, I am looking for advice from anyone who might have any info about this... I applied for med school last year, and was denied by all five schools I then went on to do my MSc in Molecular biology. I am now in my last year (I will be finishing in December) and my supervisor has asked if I would instead be interested in switching into a PhD. It would only be 2 years extra (i.e., after december instead of being finished I would have 2 yr more and be totally done with a PhD instead of an MSc)... which, of course, sounds like a sweet deal. The problem is that I have always wanted to go to med school. However, the reality is that my marks aren't great... in undergrad I had about an 83 average. I am thinking the MSc will help, but in grad school I have been getting 80s in my courses... so I am concerned that I still might not get in... So to make a long story short... I really don't know what to do. Do I take the chance, quit after the MSc and hope to get into med school, or do I stick it out and go for the PhD, and assume I won't be accepted. Does anyone have any idea about how more likely you are to get into med school with a Masters degree? I have been emailing the admissions departments at the med schools, and have not been getting any replies I have to let my advisor know my decision at the end of this week! Any advice would be greatly appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 Hi there, Some schools in the country will look upon graduate degrees more favourably if you can demonstrate decent graduate productivity. These specifically include Ottawa and UofT. If you think you can crank up your productivity in the home stretch of your MSc, then you may have a decent shot. Likewise, if you can do the same within a PhD program. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aneliz Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 Heya, I think that there are a few things that you need to consider in making your decision....(and it will be a difficult decision) 1. Why did you do the master's degree in the first place? Was it because you enjoy molecular biology research (or research in general) and foresee a career in research? Or was it to 'put in time for a year' (grad school is the giant 'pause button on life' according to one of my friends) while attempting to make your meds application more attractive? 2. Do you actually have an interest in having a PhD in molec bio? Do you want to do research or incorporate research into your future? 3. What med school do you really want to go to and what kind of difference will having a PhD in molec bio really make to your application? If you started the master's degree to 'fill time' and/or make your application more favourable, then it is probably a mistake to transfer into a PhD program....research can be a difficult animal to deal with, especially in molec... and something that should take you a morning to accomplish in the lab will take you a week (I'm sure you know what I am talking about here!)...similarly, a PhD that you think should take you 2 years extra may turn into 4....and some of the schools (like UWO) will not allow you to start med school until you have FINISHED your grad degree...so you will have to be prepared to stick with it until it is done. Also, keep in mind that many of the schools do not provide that big of an 'advantage' for grad students (UWO provides none...zip. zero.) and most that do require you to show substantial research productivity - enough to 'outcompete' your fellow grad student med applicants.... Some grad students that I have talked to have said that even though the grad students have a 'separate pool' or an 'advantage' over the undergrads, the competition between grad student applicants is much tougher than the competition between undergrad applicants (because there are very few '@#%$' grad student applicants...so you really have to shine with numerous high-quality publications to stand out in the grad pool). You should also be aware that most schools are going to require you to have a letter of support from your grad supervisor...so make sure that your supervisor is aware of your med school dreams NOW....not at the end of your PhD....I know of a few people who had their med (or vet) school applications DESTROYED by a nasty letter from their grad supervisor who felt betrayed...(they thought that they were training someone genuinely interested in research that then declared that they wanted (and had always wanted without telling anyone) med or vet school)... Dropping this bomb on your supervisor with "and can you write me a reference letter for my application" may blow up in your face pretty badly....most supervisors view doing a PhD as a commitment not only to research but to the general field...not as a legitimate 'stepping stone' into another career....lots of people do MSc degrees...it is where you get some research training and decide if you want to do research...if not, you finish the MSc and you go on to other things...no hurt feelings....but most view doing a PhD as more of a commitment to research as a career.... And, you should be aware that should you be interviewed, most med schools are going to want to know why you did the PhD and how you are going to incorporate it (and research)into your medical career....so be prepared for those questions too. I am not trying to discourage you from transferring into the PhD program...but make sure that you are doing it for the right reasons....if you don't want to do research, don't do a PhD for med school application purposes only...not only is it not a 'ticket in', it could actually decrease your chances of acceptance (at some schools) if you don't get a good number of publications out of it, get a nasty letter from a disgruntled supervisor or don't provide enough evidence to a medicin ad comm that you will use your PhD in your career....(they can smell things that are done for 'application buffing' only about three miles away...) Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest therealcrackers Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 One other thing about doing the PhD (I did one...) don't be fooled by the "only 2 years" statement. That's 2 years if you work exceptionally hard, get some help and some good luck. My 2 years turned into almost 5 before I got done and got into Western... if you're interested in being a clinician-scientist (I still am), you may want to consider the MD/PhD route, offered at U of T, Western, and maybe other schools (no slight intended, I just don't know). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest avarrin2001 Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 Thanks for the great advice. You have me pretty well figured out. Through my undergrad I thought I would never want to go to grad school, when reality struck that I probably wasn't going to get into med, I changed my mind. I started my MSc in the hopes that it would make me more likely to get into med, not for a love of research. Surprisingly, I have found that I do actually like research...yes, molecular bio definitely has its trying times, but my project has actually been working well (for now.... ask me tomorrow and I could be singing a different tune ). Thanks for your input, Aneliz. I havent thought of the interview perspective. Everyone I have asked for advice are from a research background, and I see that I have been getting biased opinions. Would I like to do research? Sure, but only if I absolutely can't get into healthcare. In the long run, I definitely cant see myself in a lab playing with yeast cultures! I think I just got way caught up in the idea of getting a quick PhD. Hmmm... more to think about again! On the up side, I have told my advisor about my plans to go to Med school since my initial interview, so he is well aware of the fact that I am unlikely to be in his lab because I want to be a Principle Investigator myself someday. Thanks again for your advice. And if anyone else has anything to add, please let me know! I would love to hear it. By the way, any of you who have sat on admissions comittees, do you have any idea about how many graduate students apply for med school? I have found statistics from a couple schools (mostly UT and McMaster) which show that about 15- 25% of ppl admitted have a Masters degree, but I can't find any information on the number of grads that apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 Hey there, Regarding your final question, I was told by the folks in the Ottawa Admissions Office that generally they have received 450-500 graduate applications per year for the past couple of years. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest noncestvrai Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 FYI you need to have a ****load of publications it seems at UofO just to get an interview as a grad student... As medicine is a "vocation", so is research, and those career choices are not to be taken lightly. noncestvrai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Hi there noncestvrai, I'd agree with you regarding the vocations of medicine and research--entering either one without real passion can end up being a miserable endeavour. However, these two vocations can also be wonderfully combined in one multi-faceted vocation/career. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Makunouchi Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Hi, aneliz made some excellent points, so I won't bother repeating any. Besides, it's late and my thoughts may not be entirely helpful. As you may know, it is very important to decide not what degree you want to pursue right now... but what is it that you want to learn or do in the future. In terms of your future career, do you want to start clinical training now (MD), or do you want to do a PhD to hone your research skills. As Kirsteen noted, some schools like UofT and Ottawa have graduate sub-committees that evaluate grad applicants. Hope you've come up with your decision. Good luck with everything <edited to correct spelling - ouch!> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest avarrin2001 Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Thanks for your advice guys.... still two days until I am really supposed to give my answer to my supervisor. :\ Right now I seem to be thinking more of the "take the Masters and run!" option You all raise the point that I should go for what I really want, which is an MD, and I really think that would be where I would be happiest. It is just so difficult because if I dont get into Medicine, I may want to pursue the PhD, and would have to start over at square one... but on the up side, I would get more of a chance to move to a different school and work on a fresh new project. I really just wish I was more confident about getting into Med school! argh! :x Kirsteen, if you do a PhD do you plan to apply for med school again? -Ange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Hi there, Kirsteen, if you do a PhD do you plan to apply for med school again? Absolutely! Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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