Guest skiboot Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 Hi, I was just wondering if anyone could provide any info with regards to backup plans and how this may have affected / affect your acceptance / rejection to med school. I'm just finishing my first year of a science after degree (basically to get the med school prerequs and to try and improve my GPA - I've got my BA). Well, I've got the prerequs now (or I'll have them by August), but it doesn't look like this past year is going to do much in increasing my GPA. I see my options as follows: -take another year to finish my BSc afterdegree -Apply to do my MBA -Apply to do an MSc -transfer from Science into Education Reasons for the above list of choices are that, since I've had 5-6 yrs off between degrees, I would like to end up with some opportunities that my BA didn't give me the first time round. By doing another year of undergrad science, I don't think I'll be much ahead of where I was before if I don't get in next year (I'll apply for med school this fall). Hence the switching from Sci to Ed. I'm not sure that doing an MBA will look much better on a med school application either, (altough, this may likely be where I would end up in the long run if I don't get in) Regarding the MSc, while I'm sure that this would put me in a better position in an applicant pool (and would definitely be interesting), I don't really see myself doing long term research or pursuing a life of academia if I don't gain entrance into med, and I'm really not even sure that I would be able to do an MSc with only 1 yr of science. So, if anyone has any suggestions or insights, I would sure appreciate the enlightenment. Thanks, skiboot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ihatethelsat Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 I would just like to point out that interview panels can tell when a student is willow-waffy and not really intent on pursuing their career in medicine (or law, or any other professional career)...if you want to get into medicine, do it for the right reasons and make sure you stick with it, instead of jumping into anything and everything that looks appealing with a good name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dunes Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 I agree with Ihatethelast in that you have to get into med school for the right reasons, but it is also good to have backup plans in case you didn't get in the first/second/third try..etc. Options I've been thinking about: -Edu -M.Ed. -M.Epidemiology -M.Journalism (health care/Science concentration) I'm still not sure what I'll be doing, but I'm keeping my options open good luck to you and take care, Dunes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 Hi there, Over the years, I've collected an MBA and MSc in Epi. (the latter's still in process). Although I'm happy that I did both degrees and learned much from both, in terms of the medical school application process I'd say the MSc in Epi. has conferred much more benefit than the MBA. This is most especially true at schools where graduate productivity is a factor as although the MBA is a graduate degree, it generally provides little opportunity for publication, etc. Additionally, I feel that the MSc has provided much more opportunity (unlike the MBA) to become more familiar with the clinical realm and gain much more clinical experience. This familiarity and those experiences have certainly helped add some interesting components and dimension to my application essays, sketches and interviews. Like some of the above posters have said, do what interests you. If you're drawn to the MBA over the MSc then consider going that route. Certainly, the MBA is useful in medicine, just as it would be in any other realm. If you decide that you'd like to do an MSc later and perhaps, enter the private sector, e.g., in biotechnology or pharmaceuticals then there can be plenty of interesting options open to you there, too. Cheers, and best of luck with your decision, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marbledust Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 But having an MBA after your name definately sounds cool :lol (My brother just started his MBA and jokingly told me that was his main reason.) Off topic but to just do an MBA because it might look good for medical school doesn't seem like it would be very practical. From what I know, and Kirsteen can correct me if I am wrong, the programs are quite expensive, extremely competitive to get into, and a lot of work. If you enter an MBA (or any other program for that matter) for the wrong reasons, you will probably not enjoy yourself, not do as well, and not get what you potentially could from the experience of completing the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest byjude Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 There are a few dimensions to this problem. On the one hand, having an MBA is probably the most helpful career path if you don't end up pursuing medicine. Kirsteen may correct me if this assumption is wrong, but I could see where having an MBA could confer a rare advantage to you as an applicant - not only do you stand out against a pile of applicants with BSc's and MSc's, but you have a different perspective of medicine as a business that could be a useful skill to bring into your medical career. On the other hand, the MBA could just as equally work against you, since it could make you appear as though you're collecting degrees that will give you prestige and an opportunity to make lots of money. Not that this would be your reason for pursuing this route, I'm sure, but it certainly might be something that some admissions committees or interviewers would consider - so you would have to work hard to reveal that this is not your true motivation. Ultimately it is a toss-up, but the best option would be to pursue something that will lead you somewhere good if it doesn't lead directly to medicine. Taking another undergrad degree could help you to get those all-important interviews, and might give you more time to consider which alternate path is right if you don't get in. It might open your eyes better to possible MSc programs that you might not have considered or been eligible for - but this is only good if you want to pursue an MSc for its own value and not to get into medicine. Doing grad school as an attempt to get into medicine is generally a bad decision since it probably won't help you, and it will be a frustrating few years if your heart isn't into it (see other threads for cost/beneft analysis of doing grad work). Doing a science degree for another year could also help you if you decide to pursue the MBA route, since it might give you greater understanding of the biotech industry. Alternatively, you could always take a year off to decide what you want to do - and work or travel or whatever. Ultimately, if you pick the option that suits you best (not what the med schools will like best or what will help you get in) then that will be reflected when it comes time to apply to medicine anyway in your enthusiasm for your experience. On the other hand, if your marks or extracurrics are insignificant enough that they may limit your ability to get interviews in which to prove yourself, then it may be worth taking another undergrad degree to bump them up. However, if your marks have passed the threshold where you're not automatically cut off, then experiences that you pursue out of your own enthusiasm may help you a lot better than a 5% increase in your marks (which is not necessarily guaranteed anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest coastal79 Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 If you are considering switching into education, why not just go somewhere and teach for awhile? Education programs are full of alot of b.s. (my girlfriend is in one now, and she'll be the first one to admit it) and you can learn more useful skills by actually going and teaching. I taught ESL last year and it was a phenomenal experience. The communication skills I learned will carry over into medicine, and the confidence gained definitely helped me in all my interviews. Volunteering abroad could also be helpful in getting admitted. I too have a BA, and when I looked into the MSc programs that I was elegible for, with a non-science degree, they were few and far between. If you want to learn more about the sciences, I'd polish off the BSc. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest studentz Posted March 29, 2004 Report Share Posted March 29, 2004 I can see how an MBA may not be as helpful as the MSc in Epi, but I can't see any way that an MBA would hurt. McGill offers a MD/MBA program and several US school do because they realize that there is a role for physicians in admin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted March 29, 2004 Report Share Posted March 29, 2004 Hi there, On the other hand, the MBA could just as equally work against you, since it could make you appear as though you're collecting degrees that will give you prestige and an opportunity to make lots of money. Unfortunately, in the non-business realm, this seems to be the prevalent reaction that I've gotten when I've mentioned that I have an MBA. On the other hand, it has opened a few doors, but not in terms of the medical school selection process. Again though, I did not do the MBA to improve my ability to enter medical school. If you're interested in the MBA, look into it further. It can be a fantastic experience that endows a very transportable toolbox of skills. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shrinkage Posted March 29, 2004 Report Share Posted March 29, 2004 Police officer. Unusual, eh? I figure that I have been in school a LONG time already (finishing my master's right now)...and if I can't get into the field of my choice (health care)...then it would be better to ditch academia and get a "real job"...(tongue in cheek)... I figure docs are like cops in that both of them serve the public, and are "everyday superheroes" (although my meds interviewers weren't very impressed with this comparison, I'll admit). Just thought I'd throw this out there to see what people think. Cheers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ClimbOn Posted March 30, 2004 Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 If I don't get in this year, I've considered getting the qualifications needed to become a paramedic, and then apply a part time position at BCAS (BC ambulance service). It would give me a lot of expereince with patient contact and what really goes on in the health care system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest buffer monkey Posted March 30, 2004 Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 This one is a little different... As an alternative to medical school, I was considering an M.Sc. in biomedical communications at U of T. Check out the web site if you're interested: www.surg.med.utoronto.ca/bmc/ It's basically a graduate program in medical illustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted March 30, 2004 Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 Hi there, A friend of mine graduated from that program a few years ago and loved it. The work they do is really fantastic. Also, she mentioned that they take their anatomy classes along with the first year medical students since it helps them understand the colours and textures of the tissues that they will illustrate. Go for it! Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Adamanda Posted March 30, 2004 Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 If you are interested in BMC, check out the sick kids child physiology website: www.sickkids.on.ca/childphysiology/ It was done by 3 BMC grads that work with my thesis supervisor at sick kids. Their work is incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elaine I Posted March 30, 2004 Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 I've spent the last five years as a paramedic, and have enjoyed the different opportunities. While at times I wish I took a more 'traditional' route to medical school, I don't think I would give up these past five years. I've learned a lot about caring for people. Paramedics learn to speak with patients and their families, and perform physical examinations. They have the opportunity to deal with patients in their homes, in order to see the perspective of the patient. They also have the opportunity to practice many skills like intubation and IVs. As well, I've had the opportunity to learn about the health care system from a different point of view, and to gain many valuable contacts. If you are considering paramedicine as a path to take between undergrad and med school, I highly recommend it. You'll learn a lot, and have some great experiences. BTW, Paramedicine 2004 is going to be held October 12-14 in Mississauga, if you are interested in the profession. It is open to anyone who wishes to attend, and will focus on the profession and education. (A shameless plug - I'm chairing the conference committee...) If you have any specific questions, please feel free to ask! Elaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest skiboot Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Thanks for the feedback, Quote: --------------------------------- I would just like to point out that interview panels can tell when a student is willow-waffy and not really intent on pursuing their career in medicine (or law, or any other professional career)...if you want to get into medicine, do it for the right reasons and make sure you stick with it, instead of jumping into anything and everything that looks appealing with a good name. _________________ While my question may have made it look like I may be willow waffly or just trying to collect degrees, this is by far not the case. Yes, first and formost, my goal is to be accepted into med school. If I wasn't totally committed to getting ino medicine, I would not be taking 1-2 yrs to complete the prerequs and try to raise my GPA - I would have gone directly into an MBA or Ed Degree, etc. The reality is, after 1 year, it has that it's become somewhat obvious that my GPA will likely not be very competitive, so I am being somewhat forced to look at the alternatives, in the event that I don't get in. While it may look like I'm trying to 'collect dfegrees' by my choice of alternatives, I really don't see it this way (although I'm beginning to think that's that the way the admissions board will see it). I read on one of the med school websites that where it clearly states the obvious (ie) how competitive it is to get in, and indicates that part of the preparation should be to have a backup plan / alternate route in place. Maybe what they really mean is - that you shoulld have a science/health related backup plan in place, because if you are looking at an MBA or other professional type degrees, then it will likely work against you. Regarding the Ed degree, I come from a family of teachers, so that has always been a backup plan, but the Ed degree, or the MBA are just that, the backup plan, the plan B, if I don't get into med school. Some of the other fields that have been mentiond do sound interesting, and I must admit that I hadn't thought of them. So I guess At this point it sounds like the best bet would be to do another year of undergrad to finish my BSc and if I were put in the unfortunate position of not getting in after the 1st or 2nd try, I could go degree hunting then....:rollin (Kidding) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EngrMD Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Sorry this is a question to Skiboot not related to the topic. I already have a BS/MS and planning to go back to school for pre-med science courses. Since you have done a post-bachelors, can you please tell me what options do I have in a Canadian University as regarding completing my requirements? For example, second degree Vs. Non-degree? How many years in second degree? What are payment options in such programs? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks EngrMD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest coastal79 Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 I believe that most schools have a requirement that you complete 2 years at the school before they will grant you a degree. If you already have all the 100 and 200 level courses (or you can take them while taking upper level courses), you can get out in 2 years with another degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest studentz Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 I just got accepted by the MHS program at Hopkins I've been interested in the school and its International Health program for some time & it's a damn good way to spend two years if I don't get into U of T this year, but $$$ is a very big issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest skiboot Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 EngrMD, It all depends on the program, but I would say that 2 yrs would be the minimum. In my case it will probably be 2 yrs including spring and summer session. Hope that helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 Hi there studentz, I just got accepted by the MHS program at Hopkins Congratulations on your Hopkins acceptance! I should forewarn you, however, about at least one thing regarding Johns Hopkins. Like most MHS/MSc Epi. programs, the Johns Hopkins program is heavy on coursework. However, in my own experience, having taking a couple of their Epi. courses last summer, and relative to the courses at McGill and UofT, Hopkins can prove a tough school from which to get good marks. Although I took the courses for certificate only, the expectations from the profs (at least in terms of my classmates' reactions) were pretty high. Thus, if you're hoping to take the MHS to improve your academic profile for future medical school applications, then you might wish to take that little factoid into consideration, or at least investigate the matter some more. :rolleyes Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest studentz Posted April 2, 2004 Report Share Posted April 2, 2004 Hi Kirsteen, Thanks for the well wishes! One of the main reasons I applied is the mandatory 4-9 month field placement for the International Health program. Hopkins' place at the top of the US World and News rankings for the last while has given students there a huge wealth of placements, virtually anywhere in the world, with government agencies as well as groups like Oxfam, the World Bank, UNICEF etc. Many of the placements pay quite well too:D The only bad part, other than the city itself :\ , was the department's decision halfway through the application cycle to no longer consider the MCAT--this was the only reason I wrote the GRE. The one thing I noticed when I visited the school is the energy and passion of the faculty--it's something I've never experienced at U of T undergrad or even with the HPME admin. One guy, who directed a program I wasn't even applying to, took about 2 hours to show me around the campus, find other Canadians for me to talk to...he even told me the places to visit (and avoid) while I was there. The students were really nice there too--they did say that the workload is intense, but the biostats and epi stuff they were doing in Oct. wasn't that hard. Apart from the core biostats/epi sequence, my program is mainly biological sciences with a bit of behavioural stuff thrown in too. The problem with going to Hopkins is that the name carries with it a high cost--I have no idea how I'm going to fund it if I take the acceptance. One person on the adcom admitted that it was a big financial investment, but that EVERYONE who graduated from the program got a position in the field, into their PhD program of choice, or med school. If anyone out there is considering this type of degree, be sure to look at Hopkins, especially if you can find the funding to go. It's been ranked the #1 public health school in the US for some time and the opportunities are endless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest violetk Posted April 7, 2004 Report Share Posted April 7, 2004 There are special 1 year master's programs in U.S. that were designed for people with non-science degrees usually in physiology or other medical sciences. They cost about $1000 per credit hour though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest parval Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Elaine 1 is right--paramedicine in the way to go. After getting my med school rejections in 2000, I took the primary care paramedic college course, graduated in 2002, and have spent the past 2 years working as a helicopter paramedic. The past 4 years (since university) have been the best of my life, and if I get rejected from med school again, I still have a very very very cool job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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