Need Advice - Engineer looking to change careers

[Guest littleDudeSharma]

Hi Guys,

 

This message board is great place to get some very valuable info on med schools. Thanks!

 

I am an Electrical Engineer looking to change careers. I graded from UBC with a 3.0 GPA (a lotta partyin -> bzzr ). I am looking for a career change, not because I am not happy with what I do or $$ issues, but because I would like to pursue something different, a career where you are able to grow into any dimension you want. Anyways, I am thinking of doing a second degree in Biology (2 Years) and then applying for Med. If I am able to score a 4.0 in the 70-75 credits that I complete in the B.Sc degree, do you guys think I have a shot at getting an interview at UBC (given all other variables meet the UBC entrance levels, such as MCAT, ECs, etc)?

 

Your feedback is much appreciated.

[Guest sparkle]

Hello,

 

Before you consider a potential career change, make sure you have considered all the pros/cons carefully because in a way, it sounds like you are still quite happy with your current career. There's so much involved with becoming a doctor...it can be very satisfying in terms of "growing into any dimension you want" but it also involves sacrifices that you will have to make. Ask yourself if you will love what you do. If you will, then your second degree is an option. However, I'm not sure how each school will calculate grades with a second degree. That is something you should look into further. And if indeed you can get 4.0 in all your courses, that will be quite impressive! Along with good ECs, MCAT, I think getting an interview would be possible

 

sparkle

[Guest anvah]

Hey,

 

I'm in your boat as well. I don't think it should be any problem at all. In fact, I believe I have an advantage. Having gone through a challenging engineering degree, I know precisely how I learn. Thus, I can study for a science undergrad much better. Also, having worked for a few years, I have a lot of motivation for succeding.

 

But the proof is in the pudding. I don't plan to enroll till Sept. of 2005. Let you know in a few years how things go.

 

Anvah

[Guest McCarey007]

Med schools don't really care what degree you have as long as you have the pre-reqs. I have a good friend who is in UBC med right now and he also did an electrical engineering degree at UBC before entering med. However, he knew that he wanted to apply to med during his undergrad so he did all his pre-reqs during his engineering degree. His brother is also in UBC med (a couple years ahead) so he has an added advantage of knowing someone who understands the "system."

 

You would be surprised at how many med students actually have an engineering degree!

 

But with a 3.0 GPA, you'll have to work a bit harder to show that you have the academics to back up your ambition. As sparkle said, you should definitely investigate how the med schools you intend on apply to treat second degrees. (ie how they calculate your GPA) Good luck!

[Guest littleDudeSharma]

Hi McCarey007,

 

I know the guys you are talking about, the EE is one my really good friends. But the only catch with him is that he was #3 in the whole EE dept . So you are in 1st yr med at UBC? He tells me that you are all a great bunch.

 

I intend to start an undergrad in Jan2006. I need advice on the kind of degrees that are best suited for med. Having a non-life sciences background, I do not really know what I like at this point. I was thinking of a Bio Major, this will cover most of the pre-reqs courses required. I did take Bio first year in my final year and found it very interesting (did pretty well too), so those of you who went through UBC ugrad, please suggest possible options.

 

Thanks for the posts.

 

Vik

[Guest littleDudeSharma]

Anvah,

 

Great to know someone in my position. So you working in the EE field? Where do you work?

 

Now when u say you're in the same boat, do you intend to do a second ugrad? If so, have you thought of any possible majors?

 

-V

[Guest anvah]

Hey,

 

Currently I don't want to major in any one degree. I've looked at the requirements for the universities I'm interested in attending (Dalhousie, McGill, Ottawa, Queens, Western is that order) for medicine. Luckly, they only look at my last two years, or last x credits, so I do have a second chance. (Foolish me, I didn't study at all in Engineering and ended up with a decent but uncompetitive GPA.)

 

My preference is towards a custom designed degree involving Biology, Psychology and Philosophy. I'd focus on Human Physiology, Cognition, Personality and the like. I'd pretty much have to do a number of biology courses but they'd be very specific. I'm uninterested in doing things on Ecology, Mycology, etc. They're interesting but at this stage in the game I have to prioritize.

 

Now the goal is to ramp up for the degree, and then have fun going back to school. Work is fun, but takes a lot of time!

 

How about you? What are you leaning towards?

 

Anvah

[Guest littleDudeSharma]

Hi Anvah,

 

I can tell must be an ASIC designer from your written prose . I have not had the change to venture that much into looking at specific majors. I am proly gona go for a General Bio Major.

 

How long have you been outa school for? I manage R&D in a telecom firm. Its pretty interesting stuff but not for me in the long term.

 

Anyways, catch ya later.

 

Vik

[Guest ploughboy]

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Hey Vik,

 

Wow, it sounds like we should start a support group or something. I don't want to rudely butt in on your conversation with Anvah, but since I'm in a similar situation I though I'd chip in a few thoughts.

 

First a thumbnail bio to let you know where I'm coming from: UW EE '96, 7 years at a little company called Nortel (perhaps you've heard of us?), currently 10 months into a 20-month "get pre-reqs, improve my GPA" campaign. Meds was something I'd thought about for a long time for a lot of different reasons, and I figured if I didn't go for it now, I never would. My perspective is Ontario based, and I know nothing about UBC meds, but I think it's possible to get in somewhere with your plan. I really hope so in fact, since your background is so similar to mine. ;-)

 

Random thoughts about some of the things you'll face...

 

 

1) Returning to school - this was a bit of a culture shock for me. I'm positive that I haven't aged, but somehow all the undergrads look so young! It might take a bit of getting used to, but after that it's all good. I found that after being in industry for a few years it was easier for me to knuckle down and hit the books early and often, rather than cramming the night before finals. That had a positive impact on my GPA. As well, after doing a zillion calculus courses for an EE degree, first-year science seems really easy.

 

There's a bit of culture shock the other way too. All the people I grew up with and went to school with are busy having babies, buying houses and driving minivans. These days it's sometimes hard for me to find common ground with them for conversation. ("You just bought a new house? That's great! Me? I'm taking an introductory chemistry course with a bunch of 17-year-olds...")

 

Certain older members of my family have had a bit of a problem understanding why I'm a student again. They come from an era where you left school, worked for the same company for 40 years and got a gold watch. Most of them are used to my situation now, but a couple of them still seem to think that I'm in school because nobody will hire me. If I hear "don't worry dear, there'll be plenty of work for you when you're a doctor" one more time I'm gonna go completely nonlinear...

 

On the other hand, a lot of my younger and middle-aged rels are really cool with what I'm doing, and have encouraged me along the way.

 

 

2) Money - While I was deciding whether to look for work or (literally) go for broke by chasing meds, I worked up an estimate of when a medical degree would have a positive effect on my financial situation. Factoring in many years of lost income, relatively low resident salaries etc, I basically concluded that I'd be 100 years old before I broke even.

 

I know you're not doing it for the money, but here's a back-of-the-envelope estimate of the numbers incase you haven't already run them. I assume you graduated a few years ago and are making the median salary for an (Ontario) engineer with 5 years experience. According to the PEO, that puts your yearly income at around $63,000. Without adjusting for raises, inflation etc, you'll be giving up six years of income (two of undergrad plus four years of medical school; I've ignored BC's clerk stipend), or roughly $378,000. Assuming a five-year residency after that, and you'll have forgone another $315,000. Fortunately this is offset by your resident salary. The total R1-R5 salary in Ontario is $285,000, so you'll really only be down $30k. Grand total - you're looking at in the neighbourhood of $400,000 of forgone income. And of course, you've still got to eat, buy books, pay tuition etc during those years. I think the standard med student's line of credit is over $100,000. It's not unreasonable to conclude that going back to school will cost you on the order of half a million dollars. What's your dream worth to you?

 

When I did the math for my own situation the numbers were even crazier, but I decided I'd rather do what I'm doing now than look back at my life when I'm 80 years old and go "coulda, should, woulda..."

 

 

3) MCAT - the good news is with your background you'll totally rock MCAT physical sciences, and like a good, logical EE you'll probably do well on the rest of the sections too. It's a reasoning test more than anything, so you should be fine.

 

 

4) Second Degree - The one thing I disliked about my EE degree was how narrowly focused it was. I think I had a total of four non-technical elective courses during my entire undergrad. I'm doing the whole "artsie" thing now, taking history and psyche courses and loving every minute of it (except for the exams). At the risk of sounding cliched, it's made me a better person. Make sure you consider all your degree options, and don't pick a major (e.g. bio) based on how well you think it will look to an adcom. It seems like every second student in my bio courses is a wannabe doctor, so you won't be particularly unique in that respect.

 

On the other hand, if bio is something that really turns you on, then go for it. I actually wasn't terribly interested in biology until a couple of months ago (probably not a good thing for a future MD!) I've changed my mind recently, spliceosomes and ATP synthase are both insanely cool. One thing you'll find about bio courses, they require a significant amount of memorization and regurgitation, unlike EE.

 

Also, be careful about starting your undergrad in January. Some schools only count courses taken during a Sept-April school year, so you might not be doing yourself any favours by starting in January.

 

Anyhow, enough rambling. Long story short - applying and getting in is decidedly nontrivial, but you only live once. Choose wisely!

 

pb

 

 

 

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[Guest littleDudeSharma]

Hey man,

 

Great insight! The things mentioned are exactly some of the things I considered before I made the med decision. I would like to share my bio as well, Graded 2004 EE UBC, landed this amazing dream job at TELUS, and now thinking about quitting and chasing my childhood dream. I think an Engineering degree well equips a person for challenge - (remember the all nighters for the VLSI project). Anyhow, as a true engineer, I did do a back-of-the-envelope calc as well , I figured that by the time I am 50, I would have made Doctor Salary= 1.5*Engineer Salary, which is not too bad. MCAT should be ok. The rest is upto almighty. I have seen some great ppl with perfect profiles get rejected and vice versa. Just like you mentioned, I dont want to be in the "coulda, should, woulda..." situation.

 

Just curious, what's your running GPA at the half way mark?

 

Keep the messages flowing.

 

-Vik

[Guest skiboot]

Hey, I kinda like this thread. Nice to know that there are other people are in my boat (well, sort of, not exactly an engineering background, but spent 5-6 years in the workforce prior to returning to my after degree in premed reqs science ). I'll drop back in after the weekend though, since I'm supposed to writing the MCAT this Sat...

 

Cheers

[Guest seonagh]

Good luck on the MCAT!!! Skiboot.

 

Ploughboy!! thank you for the completely "funny cause its true" ramble. I loved it and can identify 100%. Like Skiboot, I'm not an ex-engineer. I did one year of engineering and dropped out to join the circus (well not really, but I worked in theatre and taught English in Japan for most of my 20's which is close enough to the circus for me )

 

Let's hear it for the mighty spliceosome... (my favorite realization was that half of the molecular stuff we covered in 2nd year molecular bio wouldn't have been discovered if I had done this thing at 18 LOL.)

Seonagh

[Guest anvah]

Hey ploughboy,

 

Thanks for sharing your background. I'm somewhat like you - graduated in CE from UW in 2002 and have been working in the field since.

 

Recently, I got to reflecting about the past, the future and my path in it. My conclusion was if I don't make a change, I'll die an unhappy man. So, my decision to pursue a degree in medicine and hopefully accomplish all that I'd like to.

 

I'll keep your experiences in mind. I was anticipating a culture shock. I'm just hoping my experience and maturity will help me study and focus better.

 

Anvah

 

p.s: Where are you doing your undergrad now?

[Guest ploughboy]

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Quick post during a study break...

 

GPA - my GPA for my EE degree was 3.34, and was pretty consistent from year to year. GPA for Sept '03 - April '04 was 3.98. I don't have a giant-sized brain, it's all about working hard and paying attention. I don't expect to do quite as well next year, when I face the one-two punch of Latin and Organic Chemistry.

 

seonagh - I had the same insight a while back! A lot of the stuff I find really cool about bio has only been discovered in the last five years or so. Pretty amazing.

 

anvah - I'm back at UW. With the whole "double cohort" thing going on it was a whole lot easier for me to to get in here than at other schools. My 91xxxxxx student number does raise some eyebrows, though.

Are you planning to go back to UW? It's a bizarre feeling spending all my time the west side of the campus (though I visit the EngSoc C&D regularly 'cuz no other place on campus has butterscotch-chip cookies). That's an interesting collection of interests you've got there. I took a cool cognitive psychology course last year. It almost made me want to take the Cognitive Science option, but I don't have enough space in my timetable to take all the courses the option requires. I might take a cognition course from Thagard this fall though, just for fun.

 

Like skiboot I'm writing the MCAT in (ohmigod!) two days, so I'd better get back to the books.

 

pb

 

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[Guest seonagh]

My 91xxxxxx student number does raise some eyebrows, though.

 

Funny funny, I've got one of those too, different university but still the 91XXX people look at me and say... no your student ID number. LOL

Seonagh

[Guest moo]

I'm not an engineer but I did graduate in 2002 with a math and physics degree (combined honours), so I guess it's somewhat similar. Have you thought about doing a math or physics degree and then fitting in your prerequisites that way? I know it's not exactly "biology" but honestly, now in my 3rd year of med school, math and physics prepared me just as well as any old bio-sci major would I think. If your sole plan is to beef up your GPA by taking courses, then I think with your EE background a math and/or physics major is the way to go. You will defn be able to fit in all the prereqs. (I did and it was a lot tougher to do it on an honors curriculum.)

[Guest littleDudeSharma]

I got immense respect for Math/Phy majors. You guys are true scholars. Math and Physics may be able to fetch me a better GPA but I want to explore the life sciences field a little more. Any stats from engineers that got into Med recently?

 

Vik