Bachelor of Health Sciences Programme @ McMaster

[Guest greggreg]

Hello everyone!

 

I am new to this web board and I am in need of some advice. Like everyone else here I am trying to gain acceptance to medical school.

 

I am entering into a first year undergrad programme in September. I have been accepted to both the Science Programme at U of T and the Bachelor of Health Sciences Programme at McMaster.

 

The major concern I have with attending McMaster's Bachelor of Health Sciences Programme is that since all of the students in the programme had high high school averages, it will be really hard to obtain a high GPA. I have also been told that the programme is very competative since most of the students want to attend medical school. As a result I am really skeptical if this is the best programme for me and if I would be able to obtain a high enough GPA for admission to med schools.

 

If I attended U of T, I would probably major in both Life Sciences and Computer Science.

 

Does anyone here have any advice regarding which school I should attend?

 

Does anyone know the typical class averages for students in the Health Science programme at McMaster or the Science programme at U of T?

 

Thanks so much for any advice.

[Guest apical meristems]

Hi there,

 

You'd be surprised what a common problem this is for first year students. I am currently working as the Programs Coordinator for the Orientation Office at the University of Alberta and I find that several new students are desperately searching for the "right" program.

 

My biggest piece of advice is live your life for what it is now. Many undergraduates follow certain academic routes either because they think it looks good, or because they feel they will achieve a stellar GPA. Your best bet is to choose a program that you will enjoy - trust me. If you love computer science, then head to the U of T. Keep medicine in mind, but focus on the present and always remember that you have the power to change what is ahead of you. If you follow this, academic success will inevitably ensue.

 

Example: I love Japanese. I took a few classes in my first year and did really well. Even though I am in science, I decided to declare a Japanese minor. Not only am I enjoying myself, but all of my Japanese credits are holding up my GPA.

 

I hope this helps,

apical

[Guest Teemster]

Hey Greg,

 

I was struggling with the same decision not too long ago. I chose to attend U of T due to funding (and due to a dream I had the night before the deadline ). I don't know much about the Mac Health Sciences experience, so I'll focus on the U of T experience.

 

The one thing that caught me by surprise in first year was the large class size. I wasn't too bothered by it though, because I liked the anonymity. I also found that the size of classes buffered the effects of competition. It's not very difficult to do well when you're in a pool of 2000 people. There are those who do well, but the large majority don't. The course averages in first year are around C, C+.

 

As you move on to second year, the program of study you choose to pursue will make a significant difference. I chose the neuroscience specialist program and have loved my experience thus far. Second year class sizes - for the most part - are dramatically reduced. However, since the weaker students have been "weeded" out, the competition is stronger. In second year, course averages range from C to B+.

 

I have just completed my third year, and as I look back I don't feel that I have studied extremely hard to maintain a satisfactory GPA. I've had plenty of time to take part in extracurricular activities, volunteer, do research, and hang out with my friends and family.

 

The great thing about U of T is the vast and diverse range of opportunities it presents for its students. Our campus is lovely, our libraries are fantastic, we have plenty of study space, there are a plethora of clubs and teams to join, and research opportunities are endless.

 

Anyhoo, sorry for the rambling reply, and good luck with your decision!

 

Teemster

[Guest TheDDSDude]

Hi there Greg,

 

First I'd like to congratulate you for being accepted into the BHSc. Honours program @ Mac. Very difficult to get into.

I just recently graduated from the health science honours program at mcmaster. I will be starting dental school at u of T this september because I wanted to pursue it. I have been accepted at ivy league schools as well in the US along with many of my colleagues. Some of my colleagues have been accepted for MD/PhD. programs, and I believe 20 students out of 104 were accepted into medical school after their third year. This year at McMaster's medical school alone there were 40 students out of a total ~210 (mixed third and fourth years) who were interviewed. THis does not mean all 210 applied to med school. May be only 50-60% of that number applied. So to answer your question, YES, if you go to McMaster for health science honours, your chances are very good. The average GPA of a typical health sci student is usually A- to an A. Health sci students also perform very well in general in courses that you take with Science students and the rest of the school.

 

This is a very select group and you will be trained to learn how to do well by developing your problem based learning skills. This program helped me and a lot of my peers. I think if you study hard, you will do well. Just make sure that if you want to greatly improve your chances for med school, just make sure you do well on your MCAT.

 

Health science is a very tightly knit and small group and you will get to know many of your peers and colleagues especially if you are very socially active. I believe it is probably the best program out there if you wish to get into the health profession because it provides you with tools (skills) necessary for life long learning not just information and knowledge. It is very difficult to get into so I think that alone should tell you that this program is NO ORDINARY Program. I think you will be making a big mistake if you don't go to this program. I have talked to many students from other universities during my interviews and it seems as though health science students tend to be more on the ball. Just something I noticed. This is due to the rigorous preparation we have been given and not to mention you will get good references because you get to interact with your professors on a weekly/daily basis.

 

If you are an open-minded individual who loves to learn and experience new things and different perspectives on how you view things and like to challenge yourself to better yourself, Health science @ mac is the right program for you.

 

ALso, the 18 units of electives (6 courses per year) in 3rd and 4th year (each) are sweet. You can go on to pursue ANY elective in the school as you wish, whether you want to get a minor in a particular discipline or take bird courses to up your GPA or just a variety of courses to diversify your knowledge, you HAVE THAT OPTION!

 

 

Given the statistics so far, health science would be the best program for you to be accepted to med school if that is what you want. I wish you the best of luck and success!

 

I have no reason to promote the health science program, I am just telling you like it is. No program can guarantee you acceptance into med school but if there is one program that would greatly increase your chances it would be this one. Just remember that in the end it is still up to you. If you are good you will be good anywhere. Think of health sci as steroids with no side effects for your application.

[Guest blinknoodle]

ok, i have looked but cannot find my old posts about the BHSc program at Mac.

 

Like TheDDSDude, I also graduated from the BHSc (Hon) program last week.

 

Let me answer your specific questions:

 

The major concern I have with attending McMaster's Bachelor of Health Sciences Programme is that since all of the students in the programme had high high school averages, it will be really hard to obtain a high GPA.

The beauty of the BHSc program is that you have a lot of electives. You can take courses in biochem, english, philosophy, religious studies, physics, etc - whatever floats your boat. Most people will tell you that you will succeed best in courses that interest you the most and with the electives you can choose to broaden and/or specialize your degree of focus. This allows you to customize your own degree so that it reflects what you feel you need to succeed. I would also look at the required courses in the program: typical sciences like chem and bio, courses in anatomy and physiology, but also courses in psychobiology, determinants of health, epidemiology, health policy. Figure out whether these courses interest you and will help you with your learning. Like any other degree, if you put in hard work, you can earn a high GPA.

 

I have also been told that the programme is very competative since most of the students want to attend medical school.

True, most students want to attend medical school in first year. However, as evidenced by the recent graduates in our program, students are pursuing other avenues like dentistry, pharmacy, rehab sciences, graduate studies, law, midwifery, nursing, epidemiology, public health - just to name a few. The courses in BHSc allow exposure to areas in health that you may not have been aware of in high school. Our profs are also usually health professionals themselves.

 

However, BHSc aims to create a non-competitive environment. Since all health professionals must eventually work together harmoniously, we are also learning the skills like working well in groups, communication, etc. There is a strong focus on small group and problem-based learning, where it is necessary to work intimately with your peers. We have an electronic bulletin board where students routinely help each other out. However, the onus is on the students to help each other out. Through the supplementary applications, we have looked for students that will fit well with the environment of the program (because, let's face it, it is not for everyone). You need to be a motivated student, because "the more you put in, more you'll get out of it" both inside and outside of academia. If you choose to immerse yourself in your studies all day long, you may be missing out on a lot of other opportunities.

 

As a result I am really skeptical if this is the best programme for me and if I would be able to obtain a high enough GPA for admission to med schools.

Students not only have the grades, but also the skills necessary to succeed anywhere they choose to go after graduation.

 

Does anyone know the typical class averages for students in the Health Science programme at McMaster or the Science programme at U of T?

The first year courses at Mac vary. The science courses you need to take can have as many as 400 students. However, the health sci courses have ~160 in first year (that would be everyone in your year). You inquiry courses throughout your degree allow much smaller classes, with at max 20 students per class (even in first year). Like any university, as you go from 2nd year to 3rd year, the class sizes get smaller. Many of my health sci classes in fourth year had 15 students, one of them was capped at 6 students. However, the bonus of health sci is that there is the focus on small groups, so you are usually split up into groups ranging from 3-10 students, usually 5-6. It is just like a small class, with interactions with many of your peers.

 

Let me know if you have any further questions about the health sci program at Mac.

 

Cheers,

-blinknoodle

[Guest greggreg]

Thanks for the advice.

 

I just have a few more questions. What is a typical health science class like? What exactly is "problem-based learning"? And how are you evaluated in class (e.g. term tests, class presentations, essays)? What are the exams like (e.g. multiple choice, short answer, essays)?

 

Is there any place where I can find course notes of the health science courses? Is there any place where I can find the average grade of students in various health science classes?

 

Aside from McMaster's official website, is there anywhere else that I can find more information about this programme?

 

Thanks again.

[Guest TheDDSDude]

I just have a few more questions. What is a typical health science class like? What exactly is "problem-based learning"? And how are you evaluated in class (e.g. term tests, class presentations, essays)? What are the exams like (e.g. multiple choice, short answer, essays)?

 

 

A typical health science class. There are to my knowledge and experience I can narrow this down to three types of health science class.

 

Before I do I will explain the problem based learning (PBL). PBL is a very abstract concept to define if you understand the true essence of it. In my opinion it is the fundamental core of learning itself since to truly learn you must understand why something is the way it is and it is only through experimentation or application that you are able to comprehend a concept. However, for practical purposes, it is an educational learning method that focuses on the principles of learning through problems and case studies. This ideology believes that through active learning you can learn more. This works because you have to look for the answers to the problem and consequently, you learn more than required to answer the problem. Simulataneously it allows you to improve your skills and abilities to solve problems so that you are well equiped to deal with problems in general. It lets you learn how to learn. Many health professions use this form of learning. Many health professional schools use or are starting to implement such a system.

 

 

1. Facilitated Inquiry and problem based learning type - This is our fundamental class, you have it every year or so. It is a very small class for university around 20-30 students. YOu have a facilitator and you work in groups. You are evaluated by presentations, group and self evaluations. Group meets once a week or so. Most of the learning however, takes place outside of classroom.

 

2. Lecture Based/Didactic- This is similar to your traditional learning lecture course. THere is a prof, he teaches you with lecture, and you are evaluated with tests, exams, and in some courses a group project. Some courses of this type are evaluated based on assignments or take home exams rather than a formal exam. Going to tutorials, etc. For example, Anatomy would be a lecture based course. However, there are some courses that combine lecture and PBL. This is a larger class, around 100 or so, depending on course. Anatomy is an exception with 400 because you are taking it with nurses and biomedical engineers. However, this is subject to change.

 

3. Inquiry Projects and Independent Learning courses- These tend to be upper year level courses where you are given the task of doing an independent project with a supervisor. The Thesis is also grouped under this classification. This is the ultimate test of your skills and abilities that you have developed in the early years. Very rewarding learning experience. Since through these courses you have a practical real-life application of your skills and knowledge acquired. For example, some people choose to work in research labs for their projects. You are usually evaluated by your supervisor and yourself (self evaluation). Again with all inquiry based courses, learning takes place outside the classroom.

 

There is a 4th type of class but this one is a special one. It is called 4XO3. You are given a mark in this upper year course based on your involvement in the health science program and your service to the community throughout your entire undergrad. Your mark is determined based on such criteria from your first year till your fourth. This is a fourth year course and you will get credited for it. Its purpose is for students to participate actively in the community and acts as a reward to have extracurriculars without having to sacrifice one's academics since you will be rewarded on your transcript with a good grade if you participate. It is also used to lighten the load in your final year as it counts as one course in your 4th year.

 

 

HOPE THIS HELPS.

 

As for information on individual health sci student averages, there is NO published average since that is confidential. However, on our transcripts (report card) we can see the class average of a particular health science class. Usually it is an A- to an A.

 

To find out more about the program you can either email the administrators or email myself or blinknoodle who is a colleague of mine. One of whom I am familiar with and is one who is very helpful to students more so than myself.

 

 

Greg, i've said it before. You got into health science at mac, you should go to health science at mac. You can always leave if you don't like it. But it is harder to get in than to get out in this case. You will NOT be punished for your hard earned merits. I can guarantee that. As a senior member I can put my health science degree and my entire undergraduate career on the line to promise you that AS LONG AS YOU GENUINELY WORKED HARD while in the program constantly improving yourself AND IS GENIUINELY INTERESTED IN MEDICINE OR ANY HEALTH PROFESSION, that you will acheive what it is you want. This program will not punish you if anything it gives you an almost unfair advantage. Even though sometimes it might not seem that way. This program will give you the necessary skills and more importantly references you need to get into the health professional school of your desire. What you make of it, is in your hands. There are also ways you will learn that you don't have to do as much work as your counterparts in other programs and still get higher marks. This I'll let you decide and figure out. But I am living proof that you can do it. Let me tell you another thing, I was hired in my first year for a lab job in the summer at McMaster on the basis that I was a health science student. How's that for incentive and unfair advantage. It might get harder now since you have so many health sci students filling up the lab spaces at McMaster but I'm sure if you look hard enough, you will find it.

[Guest blinknoodle]

hi greg,

 

DDSDude summarised things nice about PBL and our classes. Just to add in a few extra things:

 

I just have a few more questions. What is a typical health science class like? What exactly is "problem-based learning"? And how are you evaluated in class (e.g. term tests, class presentations, essays)? What are the exams like (e.g. multiple choice, short answer, essays)?

The health sci classes almost always have a group component. You are often put into randomly assigned groups of 5-6 for a component of the class. This can vary from doing group essays in psychobiology to exploring your PBL topic in cell biology. In upper years, very often the course is directed by the students. I had a course in 3rd year (pathology) where we basically had 3 units each with a different problem (one each month). We had 2 intro lectures by the prof, then the remainder of the month my group had to delve into the topic ourselves to be able to submit a 10-page paper and 30-minute presentation which was presented in the last week of the month. For the last month, we had an individual essay on a different topic. This was one of my favourite classes. Why? Because I got to tackle the problems to best suit myself and the rest of my group. I got to talk to experts in the field, read primary articles and reviews and then bring all of it back to my group where we could discuss what we have found and how it related to the project. You could see where there were holes in the current knowledge and discuss what that meant. For the science classes offered by the faculty of science in first year, you get the typical 'here's your textbook, read it, regurgitate it' - many times, the textbook reads as if everything is black and white. In reality it isn't so yet you wouldn't know that unless you critique the primary source. With the health sci courses, as DDSDude said, it is more of an active style of learning - you are paving your path of knowledge. For me, this suits me well. I find I retain more info - mainly because I see the practical application of the knowledge directly. Knowing all the mechanisms of antivirals is quite mindless info if I have to sit and read it, but it becomes a focus of interest if I have to develop a viral bioterrist attack and want it to work even when the usual drugs are applied.

 

Another neat option is health sci is the ability to create your own course. This can fall in tune with your 'inquiry project' but there are other opportunities as well. I knew someone who was really interested in cancer, so in addition to his thesis, he developed a course (and supervisor) for himself to investigate other aspects. I know another student who created a course about world religions - course syllabus and all. There is also the opportunity to do a clinical placement. One of my friends is going into speech pathology and needed to do a practicum prior to admission, so this fit in well. You can really explore any area you want - from health and philosophy to law and environmental issues.

 

I really like the program because you carve your own path of learning. You are exposed to different areas in 1st and 2nd year and you learn the important skills as well [group work, communication, info critiquing (what we like to call "cr_ap" detecting), info synthesis, presenting the info is various ways, etc]. In the upper years you get to apply the skills to what you are interested in. For me, this strategy worked out well for me to explore my interests and passions - some of which I did not even know about in high school.

 

Is there any place where I can find course notes of the health science courses?

While the course notes are available online, they are on our electronic forum which only students at Mac can access. However, very often courses are structured differently based on student feedback. When I took psychobiology, we each had to submit 10 individual essays (no tests, no exam). Last year, students were in groups and had to write 2 essays together. The final essay was individual. There were also weekly journals that synthesized the lecture material throughout the semester, although only a couple were eventually submitted for marking. The course content is almost always the same, so I would check out the BHSc website for course descriptions (or the online course calendar).

 

If you are a smart and motivated student, you can succeed in ANY university program. Just as other have said, universities are very much comparable in what you learn. What differs with respect to Mac's health sci program, is the way you learn. You have to determine what bests suits you. If you can learn in a way that makes learning enjoyable and relevant, everyone benefits. Look at the aspects of the programs that are important to you: flexibility? small class sizes? group work? city? proximity to home? cost of living? This is a personal decision and many factors play into which university you choose. Good luck and let me know if you have any further questions.

 

Cheers,

-blinknoodle

[Guest MacStudent]

Work hard and you'll get the marks. Slack off, esp. in first year and you will get burned. Don't listen to all that @#%$ about how one program will prepare you better for blah blah blah; it's all garbage. They use it to brainwash the students with. Trust me, it's the individual that makes the university not vice versa!!!!!

[Guest TheDDSDude]

i completely agree with macstudent, but at McMaster, the faculty members tend to treat us (health sci students) like royalty. We have our own private lounge with new computers, and last time I heard we got a new TV with DVD player. Whenever the faculty throws a cocktail parties it is all you can eat fancy finger foods such as scallops, steak skewers and lovely arrays of hors d'ouevres not to mention all you can drink alcohol, open bar. You are invited for free. You pay less tuition per unit than Science students and you get support and guidance from the admin of the program.

 

Grades are important but BHSc. also helps you develop the non academic skills you need to succeed. It is not brainwashing when it is the truth. I am actually very offended by that remark. Oh in Health Sci, you are acknowledged by your first name, they know your name, you're not just a student number.

 

Like I said you are treated like Royalty in the school. You pretty are royalty, since most of the money that mac receives go to the faculty of Health Sciences anyways. Not to mention on your first day of orientation (faculty day), Dr. Peter George Himself, the president and vice chancellor of the University, comes in to tell you that you are the pride and joy of the university and how special you are and how the school highly values you and that you are the future leaders of tommorrow. He doesn't do that to my knowledge for other faculties.

 

This program does not guarantee that it will better prepare you for anything, but but but, the resources and tools to better prepare yourself are easier to access and you are given a slight "political" advantage.

 

I heard from the Assistant Dean, that 40 health science students got interviews at McMaster Medical school out of (150 students who applied, mixed 3rd and 4th years). This year alone. Now what other program has so many students and has such a high percentage of students getting interviewed at one school? All those who were interviewed last year at McMaster med were accepted but some declined and went elsewhere.

 

I have also talked to my colleagues and 90% of the people I knew that applied to dental school at U of T were accepted. That's around 10 people out of a class of 64 students. So 1/6 of the class is potentially health science students at U of T. These numbers are not made up. I think such numbers will be released next year when this year's applicants matriculate into medical school...

 

Last year 28 students were accepted into professional programs out of 104 students IN THEIR THIRD YEAR. Here is the link on the mac website. And I'd like to remind you that NOT ALL 104 applied either.

 

dailynews.mcmaster.ca/story.cfm?id=2374

 

Check out the link.

 

This is NOT brainwashing, these are the facts.

 

No other program has this type of success. It's not boasting when it is the truth. 20 people got into med school in their 3rd year from this one program of 104 students. And not all applied so that's like a 20-possibly 40% success rate considering out of that 104 may be only 80 applied. How many programs in the world can show this?

[Guest cheech10]

DDSDude,

You're talking about a highly pre-selected group of students. Take any group of students with the grades (90%+ Gr 12 averages) and extra-curriculars of BHSc students out of high school, and you'll get a similar acceptance rate regardless of their undergrad program. So yes, that group of students had an impressive acceptance rate, but they would have gotten in anyway.

[Guest thesaug]

Hi greggreg,

 

First off, congrats on getting accepted to the BHSc program at MAC! I just had a quick question for you. I have a few friends applying this year to that program, but they have not heard anything. When did you get your acceptance letter?

 

Take care and good luck in whatever program you choose!

 

thesaug

[Guest mdhopeful23]

well, i would definitley agree with mac being a good school. however, i don't know about the whole 'being treated by royalty' thing, it might go to your head.

 

i remember coming to mac last summer and finding the health sci kids, how should i say, snooty. i think its great that theyre in such an exceptional program and they have so many opps to expand their knowledge of healthsci. but just because i didnt go to mac for my undergrad, does not imply that my education was 'inferior'. i often felt like i wasnt part of the 'mac' club. gee, thanks :rolleyes .

 

yes, alot of healthsci grads may go into medical careers. but that could be a simple relfection of their exposure to this field. its what everyone is doing around here. going to another school may allow you to 'break free' from the pack, so to speak, and explore other avenues. maybe med isnt for you. maybe there's something else you ultimatley find more fullfilling. maybe not. but having the opportunity to make such choices is a good thing.

 

i think alot of people apply to health sci at mac, with the idea that it truly is a 'premed' course. in some ways it is, you are getting exposure to the unique PBL style. ultimatley, this will end up making you more suitable for PBL in mac's MD program. its simple to see the correlation. but what about the other schools.?i dont think going to mac, persay, would give you more of an atvantage than if you went to uoft.

 

my 2cents...

[Guest mdhopeful23]

'Like I said you are treated like Royalty in the school. You pretty are royalty, since most of the money that mac receives go to the faculty of Health Sciences anyways.'

 

just to add a response to this comment. though it is true that a large amount of funding goes the the faculty of health sci, that is ultimatley a reflection of the amount of research funds coming into the university for medical sciences. mac has an amazing amount of research in this field, and this is what generates the extra $$ for FHSc.

 

25% of the univ's revenue comes from research grants...if alot of this research is done by med sci, well, you can see how the numbers inflate accordingly...

 

i think the opportunity to do research is an incentive for coming to mac. but i'm sure similar opportunities exist at uoft as well...choose what feel's right for you

[Guest when]

I applied to the BHSc program this year...I called admissions on Monday and they told me that none of the acceptances were sent out as yet. Did you get some type of early acceptance or something?

[Guest peachy]

If I attended U of T, I would probably major in both Life Sciences and Computer Science.

I just wanted to chime in with some comments about your other option, since everyone so far has commented about Health Sciences. It does indeed sound like a program that has tremendous benefits for medical school and other health profession preparation.

 

I did my undergrad in computer science (not at U of T). I absolutely loved it. If you enjoy programming, want to learn about algorithms, and you like proving things rigorously, then, imho, nothing beats studying CS!

 

Also, more than most undergraduate programs, you will still get small-group and independent learning opportunities similar to those that the Health Science program provides, just by merit of the fact that most computer science learning is done through group projects, no matter what school you go to.

 

Also, from the point of view of a high-schooler interested in medical school, before choosing a super-specialized program like Health Sciences, I think it's worth thinking about:

 

(1) whether you want to explore other fields before medical school, so that you will at least have some perspectives on the careers that you are NOT choosing, and

 

(2) even if you are dead-set on medical school and don't see that changing, do you really want to be learning the same stuff during undergrad that you will in medical school? Or do you want to start medical school having spent a few years learning about something that you will probably never have the chance to learn about again?

 

I'm sure that lots of people (and especially the health science students who posted in this thread) would answer that they don't want to explore any other careers, and that they just want to learn about and practice health sciences for the rest of their lives, and I'm sure that's true for a great number of people.

 

But the question for you is to be honest with yourself about what YOU want!

[Guest TheDDSDude]

perhaps my words were too extreme and too strong and may have offended some of you. I am sorry you feel that way. But I do believe that greggreg had the intention of going to health science at mac hence he applied to it. Now given the opportunity to go there, I was merely telling him the truth of what health science is like to convince him of going because I believe that it was a very positive experience for me academically. To be honest, I don't get any incentive for promoting health science, I am not getting paid. But my objective was simply to help. I saw that greggreg wants to pursue medical school after undergrad and I believe that this Health science program since he was accepted would be the best way for him to go. You have to understand not everyone gets into this program because they are screened. Having passing such a stage it shows that he is very suitable for the program. It is a good opportunity.

 

Someone had mentioned about a selective group and how they would all get in anyways. I beg to differ. Environment is very important. If you have a genius that is around a group of thugs and ex-cons, most likely that genius will become one of them. If you have an average person nurtured by a group of exceptional academics, that average person would also become better. Being in a such a group like health science, because they are select, you get the opportunity to work with many excellent students and learn their methods of success and see different prespectives, therefore making you a better student and person.

 

It is true that most of the funding does go to research. However, I think that huge 100 million dollar grant from Mr. DeGroote, further straightened McMaster's Faculty of Health Science. 100 million dollars is a lot of money. Even if the Health Science program were to get a minute fraction of that money, you can see how it would be able to benefit the students in that program.

 

 

As for Peachy's comment. The beauty of health science is that IT IS NOT highly specialized. This is where you are wrong. Health Science program in 3rd year and 4th year offer over 18 units of electives (6 courses) each year. That's 60% of your courseload in 3rd and 4th year being electives. You can pick the courses you want to take giving you the chance to explore many different avenues to find their true interest. Many health science grads don't just go into medicine. There are a few that go on to pursue law, graduate school in nursing and psychology as well as medical sciences, arts, dentistry etc. There are people with minors in biochemistry, sociology, economics, psychology, English, Chemistry, Geography, Math etc. I personally took many music, geography and religious studies courses. I never took health science course electives. Entering many programs, not only health science, a lot of people want to pursue medicine. However, in health science, the faculty exposes the studetns to many different career options so that they can find the right one for them. If medicine is still the right career then they go on to pursue it. I'm sure based on the numbers game there are a lot more Science students wanting to be in medicine than health science students without having seen other options because they were simply not exposed to it.

 

So you see, even though being a Health Sci Alumnus I have some bias towards my program being the best, it is definitely arguable. No program to my knowledge has such flexibility and high acceptance rate. We can argue from different perspectives. In the end it is Greg who makes his final decision but I want Greg to know what he could possibly be missing if he does not choose Health Sciences since many are under the misconception that this program is premed. Most of the students that enter are not sure what they want to pursue even though there is an interest in medicine because they have not been exposed to other possible careers.

 

Finally, the comment about Health Science kids being snooty. Yes, there are some kids that are snooty unfortunately. That does happen especially when you are treated like royalty, acheive outstanding accomplishments (many of these kids win international, national, provincial awards, etc.), and many tend to come from very affluent families, not to say that is a legit reason to be arrogant but you can see how that might influence one's attitude. HOwever, there are many health science students that are very down to earth, very helpful and friendly. Not all health science students are snooty. In general they are very nice.

[Guest peachy]

As for Peachy's comment. The beauty of health science is that IT IS NOT highly specialized. This is where you are wrong. Health Science program in 3rd year and 4th year offer over 18 units of electives (6 courses) each year

Well, okay. But it's still a degree in Health Sciences, one presumes! Since the original poster had said that their alternative choice was to do computer science with life sciences, I was just pointing out some of the benefits of that choice, and some other things to think about.

 

Health Sciences sounds like a fantastic program for many people, and it's great to hear that you had such a tremendous experience there. I just don't happen to think that "the truth" is that for everyone with the "opportunity" it is necessarily the ideal place to be.

[Guest mdhopeful23]

you know whats funny, greggreg hasnt posted here awhile...i wonder if we are just arguing amongst ourselves here, and he's long gone with a decision...:lol

 

dd (sorry cant remember your name right now) i can tell you are a very enthusiastic alumni of mac BHsc. I think that its a wonderful program and good for you for having persued it...and for being willing to sing its praises.

 

but i just dont think its the program that festers success. its the people who are attracted to it...as someone already mentioned, alot high striving students are entering this program. and they will continue to do well once theyre in BHsc, and most likely beyond (present company included, im sure ). its the student making the univ, not vice versa...gregreg, or whomever facing a similar dillemma, would ultimatley do well at either school...

 

ok, its the whole 'treated like royalty' thing that miffles me. i would tend to believe that such tx would enhance snooty attitudes. maybe this is the root of the problem. maybe mac shouldnt be feeding into 'mightier than thou' kind of attitude. and of course you're right, not all BHsc students at mac are snooty, that would be stereotyping. i did meet some nice people... but there was certainly a higher percentage of people with snobby attitudes than im accostomed to...

 

and i dont think environment is everything. ie. if you throw a smart person in with a group of thugs, they wouldnt necessarily become one. yes, there is certainly more 'negative' influences in such a situation, but we all have our own interests and preferences. i would like to think we're all not just a bunch of followers...

[Guest greggreg]

I completed my second work term in Dec 2003. From Jan 2004-April 2004 I completed grade 11 biology, grade 12 biology, grade 12 chemistry as well as one university course all through correspondance. I also volunteered at a Toronto hospital 2 days per week.

 

I was then able to apply as a transfer student to both McMaster Health Sciences and U of T Sciences.

 

Since I am a transfer student at McMaster, I am not guaranteed residence. At Waterloo I found first year residence to be a great place to meet people at the school. I am concerned about living off campus at McMaster since I don't know anyone in the city or anyone that currently goes to the school. I am able to apply for residence as a transfer student, however I only have a 50% chance of obtaining residence, and even if I do, I might be stuck in a double, triple or quadruple room (something which I am not sure I really want).

 

At U of T, I have been guaranteed a single-room at Burwash hall, since I was allowed to apply for residence as an upper year student.

 

If I went to McMaster what do you guys think is the best thing for me to do in terms of accomadation?

[Guest greggreg]

(sorry, the last post was missing some text...)

 

Hey Guys, I am still here! And your discussion is really beneficial in helping me to decide which school I will attend next year.

 

I should probably explain my situation in more detail. I was actually accepted to the Computer Science Co-op Programme at Waterloo after I graduated high school (grade 12) in 2002. I completed two full academic terms and two full work terms at Waterloo. However, before the beginning of my second work term I decided that I no longer wanted to study computer science and pursue a computer science career. After much thought and self realization I realized that I wanted to pursue medicine for a number of good reasons.

 

I completed my second work term in Dec 2003. From Jan 2004-April 2004 I completed grade 11 biology, grade 12 biology, grade 12 chemistry as well as one university course all through correspondance. I also volunteered at a Toronto hospital 2 days per week.

 

I was then able to apply as a transfer student to both McMaster Health Sciences and U of T Sciences.

 

Since I am a transfer student at McMaster, I am not guaranteed residence. At Waterloo I found first year residence to be a great place to meet people at the school. I am concerned about living off campus at McMaster since I don't know anyone in the city or anyone that currently goes to the school. I am able to apply for residence as a transfer student, however I only have a 50% chance of obtaining residence, and even if I do, I might be stuck in a double, triple or quadruple room (something which I am not sure I really want).

 

At U of T, I have been guaranteed a single-room at Burwash hall, since I was allowed to apply for residence as an upper year student.

 

If I went to McMaster what do you guys think is the best thing for me to do in terms of accomadation?

[Guest TheDDSDude]

hey greggreg if you went to mcmaster and are going for sure, I think I still have rooms available in my old house that is like 2 minutes from the school. PM me and i'll check for you.

[Guest greggreg]

Unfortunately I don't have ezsupporter so I can't send PMs. Are you still living in this house? Who is living there for next year?

 

From your experience what was the percentage of first year health sci students that lived in res?

 

Also, what is the best way to find housing in Hamilton and find roommates to live in a house with?

[Guest blinknoodle]

Hey greg,

 

Most health sci students live in res first year, but many move off campus for second year (me included).

 

I think you will find you will be able to meet a lot of students through your inquiry class and other classes with groups (cell bio, health psych, etc) and through tutorials.

 

To find off campus housing check out www.macocho.com/. It is run by the university and people pay to post their places/rooms for rent. The off campus housing is very affordable and lots of spots are within very resonable walking distances (and with your student card, you get a free 8-month bus pass if you do happen to live a bit further away).

 

Good luck.

 

Cheers,

-blinknoodle

[Guest greggreg]

I am strongly considering McMaster right now. I just want to firm up my plans regarding accomodation before I make my final decision.