Choosing undergraduate program

[Guest archchivalry]

I'm currently enrolled in Ontrario high school.

I'm just worried about what undergrad program

I choose if I want to go to medical school.

 

I'm also thinking to choose a program that will be

solid base for my career if I failed to go medical school.

 

I applied to Western biomed. program,

Mcmaster biochem. prorgram.

I don't know what biomedical program really is,

they said it is a good preparation to go to medical school, but medical school does not give any advantage to certain program.

 

Also, if I go undergrad program where I can get in easily,

will I get high GPA? I read on your website that GPA is the only thing matters, not the university's quality.

 

I chose to go to medical school, because I felt like that was the only useful thing to learn..it is real life. but, I'm just not used to seeing blood and cutting human flesh and stuffs..should I not go then?

[Guest Koppertone]

Well volunteer around to get a feel for medicine. If I had to do my undergraduate degree over again (I got a BSc in Cell Biology/Genetics) I think I would have gone into the pharmacology program. That way I would have had a better fall back come application time. However just enter something you're interested in and get the prereqs, cause realistically your undergrad degree doesn't matter.

[Guest Ian Wong]

Where to start?

 

#1: Please look through the old messages on this forum, and in the General Premed Archives near the bottom of the main page. Your question has been discussed a number of times in the past, as it's a fairly common question.

 

#2: Try to figure out what you are interested in studying. People get into med school from all sorts of different university backgrounds; I've known med students who studied pretty much everything under the sun, including medically-related fields like: Nursing, Occupational Therapy, Physiotherapy, Pharmacy, Social Work, Genetic Counselling, as well as vaguely medically-related fields like: Biology, Biochemistry, Microbiology, Immunology, Physiology, Pharmacology, Epidemiology, as well as totally not medically-related fields like: Commerce, Math, Physics, Engineering, Music, Religious Studies, Women Studies, English, etc.

 

Whatever you are studying, make sure it's something you enjoy, and that you keep your GPA up by working hard. Working hard should be pretty easy if you are interested in the subject matter (this is why you need to figure out what subjects you enjoy studying). Also try and figure out what kind of jobs would be available for you in that field if you can't get into med school.

 

#3: Unfortunately, as med school competition increases, objective measurements like GPA become very important in determining if you get interviews for med school. The higher you can keep your GPA, the better the application process will go for you. I think that the GPA is more important than the university or the field of study, but that's just my opinion. Whatever you study, you must show that you are capable of doing well enough in that area, that the med school's feel confident that you can academically handle the workload in medical schoool.

 

#4: If you don't know whether you should go into med school, then you need to find out. There's nothing worse than someone in med school who really doesn't want to be there, or finds out that he/she isn't a good fit. That's why you should spend time volunteering or shadowing doctors to see if you enjoy working with sick people, and whether you can envision yourself doing this job for the rest of your life/career. If not, then going into med school is a huge mistake. Don't study medicine because it's a useful thing to learn; do it because you want to learn it, and you want to help sick people.

 

Ian

[Guest thesaug]

Hi archchivalry,

 

Just out of curosity, which department at Western offers the biomedical program? I just graduated from Western and I know there is a masters in biomedical engineering program, but I didnt know they started one at the undergraduate level!

 

Good luck to you!

 

thesaug

[Guest archchivalry]

Hi, thesaug

 

I got undergraduate viewbook from WEstern and

also got course calendar for science department.

 

and the viewbook says science is common first year and

after that, it can be divided into two areas:

biological science(biology)

and medical science(biochemistry, immunology..etc)

-> if biomed and medical science were different thing, sorry thta I didn't know.

 

Yeah..so they said about 7sciences at UWO is part of medical science.

Also, they have new academic choice at UWO, but I'm not sure with the details..altho I have to know cuz it will apply for me. It's basically you get flexible time table I guess.

 

THank you for your reply guys.

I guess I'll going to shadow my pediatrician one day

and see how it looks like.

 

* Wow,,I didn't know there's masters in biomed engineering, that was what they offererd in undergrad at UT, but I dont' think I'll go there. UT said they will be very harsh on marking.

[Guest Jixe]

Don't choose not to go to UofT because of what you're hearing.

 

A fair proportion of students do well (80+) in Life Science at UofT, similar to any other school. People complaining that UofT is so hard need to realize that there ARE a fair number of people who do consistently well. No offense to current UofT undergrads, but these are the facts. (Lately, I'm hearing Waterloo's Life Science and Pre-Opt/Pre-Health programs are brutal too). Ignore this sort of "gossip" and check out the schools yourself. Try to attend a few lectures this summer as well (just be aware that universities aren't running at there maximal level during the spring term).

 

I was once in your position (like many others have been) and in all honesty, go to a school where you'll enjoy your next 3/4 years.

[Guest Jixe]

By 80+ I meant 80%+, not 80+ people.

[Guest studentz]

Yes, a fair number of people do well at U of T. However, it's fairly common knowledge that the Faculty of Arts and Science has a mandatory GPA average range for each class over about 40 people, and if the average isn't in that range (C- to B+) the professor has explaining to do. I've had a professor read out the form in front of me.

 

Now, suppose that every other school has a similar curve, which is not the case. The fact that the people around you at U of T generally had higher averages in high school than at most other schools (yes, Queen's has a higher average entrance GPA, but take the average of the top X matriculants at U of T where X = the total number at Queen's in any year and I'd bet money that U of T comes out higher) means that you have more competition for an A than basically anywhere else. If the class average in uni is 65 at two schools, but one school's kids had an 80% high school average and the other had a 90% average, something's accounting for the large drop at the latter.

 

You can do well at U of T, there's no question, but the worst part of the UofT undergrad science education is the large classes taught by between 4 and 7 professors. It makes it next to impossible to really get to know your professors well for reference letters. Third year immunology has 300+, physiology lectures are in Con Hall...that's just crazy.

 

I had the head of a life sci department at U of T tell me during the science Subject POST preview day 4 years ago "U of T is a horrible place to be an undergrad, a great place to be a grad student and a dream to be a tenured professor." I'm not making that up. I got into Mac's first BHSc class and took the money at U of T instead, and regretted ever since.

 

Keep the reference requirement in mind and ask about class sizes. Western has course evaluations online that state the enrollment so check out the classes you plan on taking later on and see how big they are. This is especially important if you even remotely plan on applying to American schools, many of which require two letters from science faculty.

 

Now, I think I got an excellent education at U of T, but I think I could have had a better experience elsewhere. Realistically, an A is an A, regardless of where it came from. So go where you feel most comfortable, where you get into your program, and ignore the Maclean's rankings.

[Guest arjuna83]

I agree with the above on the mandatory GPA average range present at UofT. One of my friends, who happens to be a T/A for an arts and science course at UofT made it pretty clear, although I was suspecting this for some time: In his section of 40 students, he had given A's to 8 students. However, the professor had approached him and told him that he cannot give A's to more than 4 students in that section has otherwise the professor would have to explain himself.

Now what if that class was filled with many smart students who deserved A's? should they be penalized just because they all ended up in 1 class?

 

Even though things like the above happens, I have no regrets after two years in undergrad here. The diverse array of courses and the great resources available (academic and non-aca) pretty much compensates for all the negative aspects of UofT.

[Guest archchivalry]

Sorry if I made any confusion, but

what I meant was that

I contacted engineering science program at U of T, and

the registrar told me it is very hard program to get high mark

so if you want to do med school, do regular engineering course.

Thanks for replies.

[Guest Steve U of T]

Yes, engineering science is the toughest stream in engineering, although from what I've heard, it's not impossible to get good grades. The problem is that everybody who goes into engineering science had a high school average probably in the low-mid 90's, so it's hard to distinguish yourself and get A's. A lot of people in that program (and other branches of enginnering) are happy with just passing grades, since it is a professional program that can lead directly to employment. Is engineering science the only way into biomedical? I know some of the engineering subspecialties have multiple routes of entry.

 

In any case, I do know of at least one U of T eng sci student who is now applying to medical school, and has received multiple interviews so far.

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

In any case, I do know of at least one U of T eng sci student who is now applying to medical school, and has received multiple interviews so far.

So do I Steve. Since it's often a small world, does he/she happen to have the initials, CL?

 

Aside from that, I know more than a couple of biomedical engineering MSc students who have successfully made it into UofT meds.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest blinknoodle]

I also know of an MD applicant from U of T engineering science who has had interviews (not CL). However, they informed me that as far as they know, only one eng sci student had made it to med school before and she was the top of her class. A better question would be the acceptance rate for eng sci students, since I'm sure the majority of the students want to be engineers and not physicians.

 

-blinknoodle

[Guest Steve U of T]

The person I know is not CL, Kirsteen. I suppose there are at least 2 people from eng sci (or N Psi, as they like to call it) applying to medicine, 3 if the person blinknoodle knows is different from the one I know.

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hey there,

 

I guess N Psi is a relatively popular stepping stone to meds these days, along with the other engineering streams.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen