repeated courses and grad applicants

[Guest Chowchilla]

what's the general policy of most med schools in canada on repeated courses? what if i were to take them during the summer?

 

second question: how do med schools consider grad applicants specializing in the humanities? (history for example). i ask because the schools that are grad friendly usually look for 'scientific productivity' which could be difficult to measure in the case of such applicants...:|

[Guest aneliz]

UWO - will not allow you to use any year in which you are repeating a course as a full time year UNLESS you take 5.0 NEW credits on top of the one that you are repeating (ie 6.0 total). In that case, they will calculate your GPA for the year using the 5.0 NEW credits and will drop the repeated course. If you include a repeated course as part of a normal 5.0 credit year, you are not able to use that year for GPA purposes. Repeating courses in the summer will not affect your UWO application - they do not look at summer courses.

 

UWO does not offer any different criteria for grad applicants...so as long as you meet the undergrad requirements, having a grad degree in art history will not be viewed any differently than having a grad degree in theoretical physics with 15 publications...

[Guest chemgirl]

For U of A, you cannot repeat a course to get a higher grade to use towards your application, you have to take a higher level course.

 

For example, let's say you got a 2 in Physics 101 or whatever and wanted to repeat that course and get a higher mark. If you retake physics 101 and get a 4, U of A will not count the 4 towards your prereq GPA. You would have to take physics 102, the next course in the sequence.

 

As for grad applicants, if you have a masters or a PhD, you get 2 or 3 more points on the application. So, people without a graduate degree can only score a maximum of 95%, people with a masters degree 97%, people with a PhD 98%, and people with both, 100%. There is a date that your thesis has to be written and defended by to qualify for those extra points.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Kathleen

[Guest swedeboy]

Hey Chowchilla,

 

I'm going to add on a little to what chemgirl just stated. From what I understand, grad productivity really isn't a deciding factor at U of A the way it is for some of the Ontario schools. I say do grad studies in whatever you're interested in if that's what you want to do (and if you're planning on applying to U of A). If anything, it makes you stand out that much more from the crowd, but be prepared to have some well thought-out reasons for why you've gone down that path come interview time.

 

And a question for chemgirl. Did they change the point allocation because I thought it was just 1 point for a Masters? I guess it doesn't matter for us though, since we both made it in! Looking forward to meeting you on August 30.

 

swedeboy

[Guest byjude]

For grad productivity, I think they will sort of interpret your application relative to your program. If the program is course-based, they'll look more at your course marks. If it's a thesis-based arts program, they'll still consider progress on your thesis ideas to be productivity - although it may be more difficult to comment on that if the thesis writing will happen in the summer after! But I think that is where a letter from your supervisor commenting on your progress plays an important role - even if you haven't made 3 transgenic mice or discovered a new receptor or made 8 publications in Nature...

[Guest chemgirl]

swedeboy, you are correct, I just checked on the faculty FAQ page and it is indeed only 1 point for a master's, and the points are actually added on top of the points allocated for all other facets of the application, so the highest mark an undergrad could get is theoretically 100%, and the grad points are on top of that. Whoops!

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

second question: how do med schools consider grad applicants specializing in the humanities? (history for example). i ask because the schools that are grad friendly usually look for 'scientific productivity' which could be difficult to measure in the case of such applicants.

It really depends on the school. There are at least a couple of schools that are graduate-applicant-friendly, i.e., UofT and Ottawa, and to a lesser degree, Calgary and UBC (probably among others). In terms of UofT and Ottawa, they are the two schools who make specific concessions for graduate applicants, i.e., they will place them in a separate, "second chance" pool. However, generally in order to emerge triumphant from that pool, your graduate degree must have conferred you a good opportunity to be productive, i.e., not only attain good graduate marks, but publish papers, give presentations and win awards. Thus, a graduate degree that does not provide such opportunities may not help you, especially in the event that you're applying to these medical schools with the hopes that your graduate work will supplant a not-so-stellar undergraduate record.

 

To wit, I applied to both UofT and Ottawa once I had completed my MBA. Granted, the MBA afforded me the opportunity to complete a year-long thesis project in a clinical field, and I performed reasonably well in the 10, full-year courses that I took; however, this was inadequate in terms of helping me stand out in the graduate applicant pools of UofT and Ottawa. In fact, back then Ottawa told me directly that the MBA would not be useful in the graduate selection process, as it wouldn't confer graduate productivity, and hence would not increase my competitiveness. They have since altered their selection process for course-based graduate degrees, and now, the only benefit that it shall confer is if your graduate course GPA can lift your WGPA to a level that deems you competitive with the undergraduate applicants and regional cut-offs.

 

My understanding is that UofT's process is similar. That is, if your graduate degree offers a good chance at research productivity, then all the better.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest Chowchilla]

oh dear, not looking too good then. |I

 

but thanks for the responses

 

how helpful would it be then to instead tackle on a 5th year of undergraduate studies? would any of you recommend it instead of going for my masters?

 

solely for the purpose of raising my gpa of course.

[Guest byjude]

Another note on Ottawa's treatment of grad applicants - a one-year Masters is also not helpful, because you need to be in a program that is 2 years or longer in order to qualify for special treatment. The reason is that Ottawa will only apply this consideration to people applying during the final year of graduate study, and people in one-year course-based programs would not have marks yet in order to be considered. If you apply after you have completed your Masters (eg, if you reapply after an unsuccessful attempt), Ottawa will put you back into the undergrad category.

 

I would say that extra undergraduate studies are the best way to increase your chances of getting an interview, given that a grad degree will only qualify you for special permission at 2 schools in Canada, whereas a higher GPA should help you across the board. That said, not every school will consider your 5th year in determining your GPA, or will having different ways of applying it, so you'd have to check with schools individually. But I think most schools will at least factor it in somehow, and at schools like Queens, Western, Dal, where they only use 2 years, the extra year could be really helpful. (However, at Dal and Queens, you would have had to complete these 2 years over the cutoff before applying - so it could help you for applying after you've finished the year, but not for this upcoming cycle). Western has pretty strict requirements for what courses you can complete during this extra year, so that might be the best guide to use - check their website for specifics, but they basically say that taking 1st year courses is unacceptable, and 4 out of 5 must be at the 3rd or 4th year level.

 

Another option is that you could also look into taking a second undergrad degree. You might be able to complete one in 2 years, and this could also help your application if you think you could improve your GPA that way.

 

More undergrad courses to hopefully boost your GPA is probably the best way of getting yourself more chances at interviews, but I would say, all other things equal, graduate work would probably better help you to get accepted if you can qualify for interviews. Graduate work reflects that you have learned a whole new set of skills, had new experiences, developed an intellectual autonomy and maturity that can help you in your medical studies. Graduate work would give you more to talk about in an interview, while extra undergrad studies may be somewhat redundant. However, the key is that you have to get invited to the interviews first. In that case, raising your undergrad GPA is the best way to go. If you're basing your decision on how it will affect your med school application, I would definitely go with extra undergrad studies - not only will a better GPA help you at more than 2 schools, but grad studies is opening up a whole new can of worms, so if you're not pursuing grad studies for its own benefits, it's not going to help.

[Guest Chowchilla]

wow, that really helped. thanks.

 

anyone else have comments about doing a fifth year?

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there Chowchilla,

 

Regarding the fifth year, it largely depends on a couple of things: 1) what are your years 1-4 like in terms of GPA; 2) what schools are you eyeing. If your GPA in years 1-4 is poor, then all things considered, taking a fifth year of courses may not confer the benefit that you need to be considered an academic star in terms of admissions. You have to factor the weight that one year out of five will have in your overall GPA calculation, and also, some schools will like to see upper level courses, which may provide challenges in terms of achieving high marks. In that case, either starting a new undergraduate or graduate degree may be a wise option in order to re-establish a positive academic status.

 

If, however, you have one or more decent years of GPA within years 1-4 then that opens up a few more possibilities. There are a number of schools out there, e.g., Queen's and Calgary, to name two, that will base your academics at least in part, on two years' performance. If your last three years are great then Ottawa might be an option. If you can write an amazing MCAT then Manitoba might be another option. This scenario offers a number of different possibilities, largely dependent on the schools' different approaches to the selection process.

 

Since this is a huge decision (one with mighty implications) I'd suggest creating a spreadsheet with all the schools listed on it. Dig through each school's website and collect all the relevant information regarding each school's selection process. You may find some commonalties among the schools and you will better be able to determine at which schools your profile stands the best chance (factoring in residency status, etc.). It can take a few days' worth of elbow grease to do this, but at least you will have peace of mind that you're able to make a well-informed decision, and one that is ultimately tailored to you.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen