possible to do mcat prep, pre-req without science background

[Guest malkastate]

Hi Everyone,

 

Sadly I was rejected from Mac and NOSM pre-interview. Not unexpected given the number of applicants, but I thought my application was strong so I'm pretty blue.

 

Here is my situation. I'm a mature student (age 30) just finishing up a 4 year undergrad health policy degree at York U. In order to apply for more schools next year I'm going to take the MCAT (oy veh!) and a bunch of science pre-reqs.

 

Now here is the problem. I have no science background. Do I have to (or should I) go back to high school and take OAC/grade 12 (or whatever it's called now) prior to taking sciences at York/Ryerson/U of T (I'm not sure where I'm going to go yet for the pre-reqs).

 

Ideally I'd like all my pre-reqs to be in progress this year (06/07) so I can apply across the country in this upcoming application cycle. Plus I'll be taking the MCAT course this summer. Is this possible ie highschool/pre-reqs/mcats all within one year? Has anyone else gone through this. Any advice on where to take the pre-reqs.

 

Also-as a mature student I've done really well in my degree- but the focus was on writing, reading, and critical thinking. I'm not sure how I'm going to do in these science pre-reqs- for those of you with little science background what's it like going back to school for science?

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

It was a long while since I'd seen basic physics and chemistry when I returned to study them for the MCAT. (I had completed these courses in high school and first year university about 10 years prior.) I found the rigor of an MCAT prep course to be quite useful, e.g., Princeton Review or Kaplan. The course provides you with the basics of all the science you need to know for the MCAT. It took a wee bit to get back up to speed on all those topics, but the sciences are like studying any other topic--if you don't understand certain concepts, you spend a bit more time on them until they become clerer. In short, it can be done.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest siobhansiobhan]

That was my situation - never having done sciences in highschool. I also went on to do the pre-reqs. And I studied with Kaplan in prep for the MCAT.

 

Universities started offering the highschool-level curriculum in introductory courses in the past few years. Ryerson and York often have them going on, in summer - at 900 dollars a pop. If you are in Toronto, there is a full-time semester that starts at City Adult Learning Centre that lasts from April to June, and gives you the credit - free, but classes fill fast, my reccomendation from experience in 2002 is that you download the form (that gave the option to go to any of the sign-up days, go to the first one, and be there to stand in line before the start time). I had the advantage that I was given Grade 10 chem way back, with a just passable mark, so I was able to go into OAC after writing a placement test (very very basic, i was able to pass it, but i had been preparing slightly with a grade ten chem book on overnights at work, i had read the first two chapters). Also, I had the prereqs to go into calculus. I chose those two courses because i was allowed to enter a BSC Biol at my old university without any other science 12/oacs needed. So, if you have more than that to do (I.e. never took the prereqs for the grade twelves or you don't pass the placement test) you have an extra June-August semester to catch up. If you do the high-school intro courses at university, you pay the money, and you lose a year, or have a very, very busy summer in university courses. Because I was completing the prereqs for Biol in June, I was able to reapply to york for biol, and was accepted contingent on the marks. I'm not sure how that relates if you need to take courses that end in August. Look into the non-degree status at your undergrad uni, if that starts looking like a problem. The only draw-back is that those first year courses fill fast, and non-degree status has to wait to see if there is any space, which there usually isn't.

 

Also, warning again, I highly highly reccomend that you get a tutor, don't take lots of sciences at the same time, you don't have the same four years of highschool sciences in terms of ramp-up time. If your grades are turning out to be low, DROP DROP DROP the course, and bite needing to take an extra year. It's worth it - for instance C+ can often happen to those who don't know sciences, had a short ramp-up time, and etc. A C+ drops your gpa in ways you don't want to know! Also, if you have any summer months not spent in prereqs, STUDY AHEAD FOR the first year courses - ramp-up time, etc.

 

 

Edit to include this:

I'm 29, and I've been doin' it! the only problem is sitting in massive 500 18-year-old lectures where the old-school uni i was used to of being silent and respectful towards the lecturer is gone. i started to sit up near the front. have a support network in your life because that age-gap can feel like fish-out-of-water. if there are any evening courses take those, more of the older folks go to those, and the others are more likely to stay quiet, don't know why. but many science courses won't be offered in the evening, too. like biochem this year - second year stuff.

 

 

 

Another edit:

No, not possible to do mcat, not having ever done sciences. The course will be a waste of money, too, until you've studied sciences before. I did learn the physics on my own, but that eats time, and it wasn't my best section. The course and the exam are easy, just lots to know, *if* you have become comfortable with the material before. MCAT scores count. Don't risk. Also, a lot of the schools that require mcat require prereq courses. The only advantage is to make sure you write an april mcat, or be willing to wait a round - u.s. schools work on rolling admissions, and it's really a good idea to get those aps in, in june. And when I say easy, i mean do-able, but kaplan helped with the test-taking strategies, wouldn't have been do-able otherwise, and all the practice tests. And this is a very stressful test, for me.

 

 

Also, I'm telling you 'do' and 'don't' but if you were to replace that with 'i did' or 'i shouldn't have done', including marks like C+, then the whole thing is about me. Also, City Adult Learning Centre is a Toronto District School-board school, with lots of adult students going back to pursue something different - it's a great atmosphere to start out in, that way.

 

 

Siobhan

[Guest trynit]

Hello,

 

I think it would be very difficult to take the MCAT with noscience background at all. Did you take Physics and Chemistry in highschool? If so, that will be enough. I had not seen a physics or chemistry problem in 11 years when I started studying for the MCAT. I have been preparing at home with EK material and tried my first practice exam and scored 12 in the Physical Sciences section. Once you get started, you'll be suprised how fast the information comes back! It takes time and dedication, but it can be done.

 

If you did not take Physics and Chemistry in high school, it is a different situation. If you are super-pumped and learn well on your own, I would go out a purchase the EK or Kaplan MCAT prep books along with some second-hand introductory physics and chemistry textbooks. When the prep manual is not enough, go the the textbooks to clarify. See how you do with this approach -- it is not for everyone. I believe it is possible to learn all you need to know for the MCAT this way, if you have the ambition and the smarts. If this is not for you, go take some high school level courses. The MCAT does not go past this level. If you do not have high school physics and chem, most universities won't let you take these courses, anyways.

 

The biological sciences section can be learned on your own. Most of the material just needs to be memorized. I find the organic chemistry the most difficult. I wouldn't attempt orgo until you have completed the physical chemistry section and the biology section.

 

When are you planning on sitting the MCAT? The format and content will be changing as of April '07. Check out AAMC website for more information. Since I'm planning on writing in August '06 year, I don't know too much about these changes.

 

Also, many medical schools require some university level sciences in order to enter. Usually, they want at least biochemistry. Unfortunately for you, biochem often needs university bio and chem as prereqs. Seriously, check the requirements of allthe universities you would consider for medical school and see what they require in terms of science courses.

 

Although I believe communication and critical thinking skills are the most important for medical school, I wouldn't want to enter without basic chemistry, physics and math knowledge. I think without these, you would be at a severe disadvantage compared with other students. There is so much to learn in medical school without having to worry about how to add exponents!!

 

I wish you the best of luck in your studies. I graduated with my botany degree in 1995 and had not seen a science textbook since! I learned all the MCAT material on my own while working full time. It can be done!!

 

B.

[Guest crazygirl2009]

Hi there....

I would definitely recommend taking a course, unless you happen to super disciplined and can make yourself stick to a schedule and study on your own...there are courses offered over the Internet as well that you can work at on your own time. Another option would be to do some background stuff on your own and then take a course that you attend to help tie in the concepts. I tried to do it all on my own and ended up not writing in,as I couldn't stick to my own timelines!...it had been about 10 years since I took basic basic science at university and it was really challenging to go back to it especially when working full time at my day job!

Also FYI, you can get into Ottawa U without mcats, which is what ended up happening to me...whew....

hope that helps.

[Guest malkastate]

thank you all for your replies...

 

This is what i'm thinking. I have to write the MCAT this summer- if I don't my choice of schools is too limited. I may not do well- but I'm going to work my butt off and try-luckily I won't be working so I can focus all my energy into it. (And I'll be taking a course for sure)

 

From April to June 2006 I'm going back to high school-wicked! I'm going to take Chem and Bio OAC. Hopefully that will help somewhat with the MCAT stuff.

 

July I will only focus on the MCAT studying.

 

I'm basically going to have to take BIO 1000 (6 credits) and Chem 1000 (6 credits) during the year. I'm going to hopefully also be able to take a second 6 credit chem course concurrently-if the chem department lets me. This may impact my CGPA for Mac- but since this coming year 2006/2007 will be considered by many to be PT-I'm hoping it won't count as part of my CGPA for most schools however,I still have to do more research on this.

 

Does this sound about right?I have all the soc science/humanities pre-reqs and so it's just the science I'm worried about. I know I won't be able to apply to U of T as you need 2 life sciences as pre-reqs but it does open me up to ottawa (my 1st choice) and queens. Plus taking the MCAT means I can apply to Dal and U of C (my 2nd choice)

 

This is going to be a long haul-wish me luck.

[Guest siobhansiobhan]

Check in with the bio department at uni-

I originally planned on bio and chem oac, but then did calc and chem because the bio department required those two, but didn't require bio! where i went back to , which was york. things may be changing...highschool calculus has been in the news lately.

 

I hope you have an awesome time, starting out

Dude, the one thing that grabbed me, at my first day back to (adult) highschool, was that I strangely wanted a cigarette again - I used to smoke, hangin' out with the smokers in highschool. CALC is an interesting highschool too - all adults, and a mix. Folks coming back for sciences for career change, new Canadians getting canadian qualifications underway, and then truly the potheads are still there - lots of folks who are forced to go (for instance, Ontario Works requires a 'job/education plan' that has to be followed to receive benefits, opinion on that one is dim from me...), and have been told they have to go to school, and really don't want to be there, so skip and toke - it's a really neat place, highschool, highschool, confidential! as joan jett sings?

 

 

Check out all the websites, too, and a notebook for developing The Plan: Operation Med School

 

All the best -

 

Siobhan

[Guest zipzappy]

Hey Malkastate,

 

I guess I'm in the same boat as you. Except, from your postings it doesn't seem that raising your gpa is an issue - for me, it is.

 

Anyways, I have been taking my science prerequisites at Ryerson's continuing ed department in the evenings and it's been a great experience so far. Like siobhan mentioned, I was a little taken aback when I first attended a basic science class at york ... there were 400 students, mostly below 21, and everyone seemed to know everything ... except for me!! At Ryerson, since its continuing ed and in the evenings, I am meeting people in similar situations and in my current org chem class, for instance, it almost feels like a support group ... most pple have been out of school for a while and we help each other grasp concepts.

 

Goodluck with taking your science courses and give me a shout if I can be of any help.

 

Thanks,

 

zp

[Guest siobhansiobhan]

I wish I had gone the ryerson route for the science classes - it's right down the street from me too!

 

I like chatting with others who are talking about the stuff that most uni students don't - so here I am logged on again, I've been studying biochem, and then dancing around to some music on break, and wanted to share this:

 

I get the highschool = mcat prep, not necessarily for uni prereqs! I wanted to mention that TDSB also just recently transferred over their distance ed stuff to TVO (yes, television!). Visit their website - you can do physics or calculus that way, but not so much support from others doing the same thing ....

 

visit aamc website too (mcat makers) they have a great list of things needed to know for mcat. don't feel overwhelmed,

and hang in there when the plan gets a bit longer....

 

i've nearly given up a couple times, but then the next ap round comes looming, and here i am taking another year of stuff!

 

i'm a grad in arts, and i'm waiting for UofT to respond, just got posted over there that a grad got a rejection letter, which means news may be coming today - i live downtown where mail takes an extra day....

 

so, i'm looking for my "Please Mr. Postman" song, i think that song says something about bringing *good* news, not just any news at all, but i can't find it to remember....

 

 

for the nontrad aps in Toronto, going to karaoke one night would rock

 

Siobhan

[Guest trynit]

I think high school physics would be much more useful for the MCAT than bio. It will teach you to problem solve and interpret data. Interpretation of data is a skill that is necessary for both the biological and physical sciences sections of the MCAT. What do you guys think?

 

If you are a good reader, I think you can learn the biology on your own. Is just takes a lot of time and commitment.

 

The chem is a must. After you have a handle on inorganic chem, tackle orgo.

 

I would make yourself a schedule and stick to it. Don't wait for your classes to start. Start today!!!! Every day counts!

 

Good luck!!

[Guest siobhansiobhan]

yes, every day counts... and that math mind is important...probably the hardest thing to stretch into coming from arts, for me.

 

cell biology is difficult to the uninitiated - but can be learned on your own, easier and faster when being taught , as with anything to be learned.

 

organic chem, that'll probably be a ryerson thing....

just make sure to check in with zipzappy on choosing the right pair of courses that will count for prerequisites - just in case you decide to take the longer route. to take organic chem, though, one often must take the other courses.....

 

 

so - my advice, download what you need to know, get some of the textbooks you'll need as backup, ask me for my kaplan materials (pm me), sign up for whichever two courses look good (you've got two semesters before the end of august, which means four courses, but not lots of extra study time -----)

 

 

start, be prepared to reevaluate time-line, have an ongoing game plan and know thy friendemy (the medschool acceptance) - those websites and knowing the prereqs, and all that jazz, and posting when you have questions even if they are 'what do you guys know about....us schools for canadians,.....low gpas....caribbean schools and carms....the core courses that appear in prereq lists....how important knowing a drop deadline is..... - just check in, get some knowledge. For instance, in getting dumped from interviewing pile when the class filled at michigan, because my app went in too late, they had an awesome link, with a bit of an insider look at the evaluation process which had some good directions.

 

Here it is (typing that, i have to go find it in my inbox...):

mdadmissions.msu.edu/main/handbook.htm. Critical review of your own application utilizing the Self-Assessment

 

As for low gpa - i'm in that boat. My mcat was good though Still, lots of rejections. But I'm buoyed by the mcat result. I haven't done the june application to u.s. schools yet. And i'm still reluctant about the caribbean....and also, i guess with thoughts around life, 30 and instability, i just see the med app process in canada in constant change - who's to say that this thread here doesn't have impact on the admission process in the future, and our sorts of aps get looked at in a new, favourable way? change is the only constant - i saw that in mac swinging away from non-trad students, and i'm keeping an eye on possible swings towards.....

 

 

So - info overload....

 

This thread has been so exciting for me, hearing others knowledgeably talk about stuff that has gotten dusty, just in my brain, 'cause my friends haven't been so excited about plotting the course from highschool to med school with a gpa that's mediocre, a playing field of canada, us, each school different in what they require, emphasise, caribbean, carms matching possibilities, financing.....

 

 

oh yeah, one more thing:

being in school with three courses is a good thing in some ways: no more osap repayment (if you're in that boat) until something pans out.

 

and, with prerequisites done, you'll have an awesome teachable of general science, if you want to skip the cue of (apparently just as competitive, but different applicant pool) teacher's college entrance. that's a one year programme down the road, and gives some thrills as a teacher, with an income (yeay income), and a competitive training having sciences - the need for teachers is about to collapse in the next couple of years, but having science as a teacheable is an advantage....

 

when i got the teacher's college interview, i looked at it, thinking there are folks out there who were very excited, the same way i would be if it were med. i'll have to change that attitude if i do go into teaching - i'll certainly be that science teacher helping kids go after their dreams, and knowing how to prepare to do it! Not to be scared of sciences, how to gain patience, not be intimidated by the stuff...all that.

 

life!

 

Siobhan