Honours Programmes

[Guest mitchie41]

Hi everyone.

 

I was wondering what the UBC students here think about honours programmes in the life sciences(ie. Genetics, Pharmacology, Physio, Microbio, Biochem). I was browsing through the calendar, and all the programmes seem pretty tough, because you need to take 6 courses per semester for most life-science honours programmes if you don't do any summer courses.

 

Is this managable? Is writing an honours thesis on top of taking lots of credits in your final year very time consuming? Are class averages in anyway higher in honours programmes?

 

Any replies would be greatly appreciated!

 

--MITCHIE41

[Guest EMHC]

Hi,

 

I have a friend who went into pharmacology. She says that the major programme for pharmacology is great but the honors programme is really tough and you can barely breathe. Since an honors degree is the usual route to doing graduate work, it may be a good thing to do an honors degree so that if Med doesn't accept you after 4th year, you can go to grad school. But still, with first class standings in a major programme, you can still go to grad school.

 

Good luck with choosing a major.

 

EMHC

 

PS: what major have you decided/deciding in getting into?

[Guest mitchie41]

I fulfill the pre-requisites for going into pharmacology, microbio, physiology, and math.

 

I hope I get accepted into the pharmacology major programme.

 

I REALLY don't want to do an honours degree.

[Guest physiology]

Hi,

 

I was initially really gung-ho about going into honours PCTH, but now, I've reconsidered because of the following reasons:

 

a) 10 hours plus PHYL lab EVERY week (includes lab and painstaking write up)

 

PCTH lab (first couple of ones take ~12 hours/week)

 

c) BIOC lab (heard it's tough)

 

And plus you have to take other "honours" type courses, like bioc 303 (6 credits).

 

BUT, the program is very comprehensive and highly recommended by everyone that I've asked. But, I met two PCTH people who are in MED2 right now at UBC, and one was a majors grad and the other honors. So I do'n't think it really makes a difference. Plus, if you wanna minor in something, doing a hons degree in PCTH is downright impossible.

 

If you wanna do grad studies, it's more important to get your foot in the door NOW doing research and/or do directed studies in 4th year.

 

I hope I'm part of the reason why u wanna get into PCTH Mitchie41...

 

Physiology

[Guest monksters]

Hi there,

 

Was in pharmacology too. The pharmacology labs actually get a lot easier near the end of the year because many of the procedures become standard. I began with writing huge ass reports but gradually I learned how to write with more brevity.

I also know people who did honours that really enjoyed it but it can be awfully time consuming. And it depends how interested you are in research. The physiology labs are just as long as the pharm labs and having the two at the same time is really demanding.

 

Good luck on your choices!

 

m

[Guest mitchie41]

Oh Yeah...I chose to go into the pharmacology programme because of physiology's recommendations!

 

 

 

Well, I heared that pharmacology requires a TON of memorization, compared to the other life sciences. Is that true?

[Guest canstowski]

I graduated from the physiology honours program. Even though i had my thesis in the 4th year, i found the 3rd year the hardest. Why? I had to hand in 1-2 lab reports per week. These reports were tedious (10-15 pages: abstract, intro, methods, etc...). By 4th year, i got used to the lab report style so it was a little easier. Also in 3rd year, i took courses like physiology 301, biochem 302, anat 390, 391, chinese 200...these are all memorization courses and i got killed during the finals as i had 4 of these courses examined in 4 days. Although i did better in my 3rd year, break wise, i had more in the 4th year. Anyhow, physiology is definitely an interesting program. A little tough but ok.

[Guest mitchie41]

Is there anyone out there that studied Math, Physics or Biophysics at UBC?

 

 

What are those programmes like? Are there a lot of people in meds from these programmes?

 

Thanks for all the replies.

[Guest vincecarterxv]

ever heard of Dan the Tutor? Well he is a famous tutor at UBC who practically sells out theatres full of people for organic chem tutorials etc. He was a math major back east, and he got accepted into UBC med a couple of years back.

 

FYI

majors don't mean anything to med. If you are taking a major because you think it will give you a better chance of getting in, then you're not on the right track. Unless you're really interested in something, then you shouldn't take it purely based on the "name" of the honours or major. 6 courses a term? wow, 5 is enough thank you very much. Take the time from that fifth course and play some intramurals, join a fitness club, or volunteer at a hospital. Broaden your horizens. UBC med likes it if you major in what you're interested in, anything, as long as you show excellence in it. Doing well in pre-reqs will show them aptitude in basic science.

 

So what do you like mitchie41? seems like you're in math stuff, go for it, and do well, and you'll have a better shot at med than taking stuff you may not enjoy as much. As much as i LUV physiology, microbiology, pharmacology, i couldn't major in them, I wanted to take my philosophy astronomy family studies food and nutrition etc. that my major allowed me (gen bio).

 

BUT DON'T LISTEN TO ME, DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO

[Guest vincecarterxv]

oops...take time from that sixth course... [not fifth]

[Guest mitchie41]

I've been thinking over my major a lot lately.

 

I'm prob gonna drop all my CORE pharmacology\physiology\microbio courses and just register for math or physics(hope there's still room in some those courses).

 

 

I hate labs, and I never wanna take them again.

 

Thanks for the replies.

[Guest physiology]

Hey Mitchie41,

 

If you hate labs, is it because of first year chem and physics labs?

 

If that's the case, don't go into chem/bioc because you'll hate the 2nd year labs even more (particularly chem 211 and chem 202).

 

However, how do you find biology based labs (dissections, specimen analysis, etc?). I personally love doing interactive stuff with biological specimens. It's much more fun, and I actually know what the hell I'm doing.

 

For example, this is what you'll be doing in 4th year PCTH if you take the lab course:

 

local anaesthetics and the frog sciatic nerve,

Portal vein & aorta pharmacology in vitro,

Brain slice electrophysiology,

 

If you're interested, the link is:

http://www.pharmacology.ubc.ca

go to "courses"

and then PCTH 402, and click on the course outline.

 

Jesus, I sound like a paid recruiter for PCTH..don't worry, they don't pay me that much

 

 

Biophysics is tough - I heard 2nd year is a killer for that program.

 

I know of someone in my Imagine squad who's in it, and you have year round 8 am classes. (Just like PCTH).

 

Wow, so you're not considering PCTH anymore?

If you go in as a major, you'll be only doing BIOC and PCTH labs.

 

But I know someone who has a PhD in math and he said that math is the best because you have NO labs, no essays, no papers, nothing...

 

You just have to wrap your mind around all those theorems!

[Guest mitchie41]

Thanks for answering all my questions, and all the good advice~~!

 

No, i'm probably not going into any life science anymore.

 

 

 

Nobody in my imagine group is in biopsych.

 

Everyone's in Biophysics or these wierd combined honours programmes.

[Guest BBB]

Pharmacology actually is an easy program. First, the department only accepts 18 students at maximum each year. It's a very small class. You get to know your classmates and particularly professors and vice versa. If you don't know them, they WILL know you. As such, you will never fail any pharmacology-related courses. In fact, you will definitely get more than 80% without sweat. If you really screw up, you will never get lower than 70%. Even 70% is unheard of, for a pharmacology student. I admit that the third year has lots of drug names to remember, but hey...it's far fewer compared to what pharmacy students have to go through. Plus you will learn them sooner or later in the medical school. So, why do you worry? The forth year is even easier than the third year. Very few drug names to remember. All you need to know is how a typical class of drugs acts. That's all.

 

If you choose major, you only take two labs, 4 hours each, one in pharmacology and one in biochemistry during the third year. No lab in the 4th year.

 

Personally, I like pharmacology honours. First you can never get below 80% in honours courses. Second, you'll find it very easy to study the one pharmacology course that all major and honours students have to take. Third, you'll learn tons of surgical techniques (from your labs and thesis) if you're interested in becoming a surgeon. If you can manage the tiny blood vessels in animals, there shouldn't be a problem in human blood vessels. :lol You should feel privileged to use real living animals in the lab. That's what makes pharmacology program so special. Even UBC medical school doesn't use animals any more. It's costly to use living animals! Years ago, some medical students complained about using animals, so the faculty might just as well eliminate using animals. This definitely saves money, though I don't know where that extra money will go to. For the Dean to hire more secretaries??? Who knows?

[Guest physiology]

Hi BBB,

 

If I don't do honours, a PCTH grad told me that you can still take the honours 4th year lab (with permission) and you can do the directed studies. What's ur take on this?

 

I don't mind doing all of the above; it's just that I want to avoid the PHYL 303 lab..it's FAR too much work. That's why I picked major rather than hons.

[Guest BBB]

Sure, that's a great way to ease your course load.

 

Just for everyone else's interest, physiology 303 lab is also fun. You can do all kinds of experiments, like testing your blood glucose (to see if you have diabetes), setting up an ECG (to see if you have arrythmia, any conduction blocks in your heart...etc), counting blood cells (to see if you have anemia, weak immunity...etc), measuring forced vital capacity (to see if you have emphysema, asthma...etc), setting up an EOG (to see if you're telling a lie!!!) and so forth. The experimental subject is YOU, the patient (clinical). :rollin On the other hand, the subject in pharmacology is ANIMALS (pre-clinical). They're a complementary pair.

 

Talking about labs. I think that's what medicine is all about. If a doctor prescribes a drug to you and it doesn't work, then he'll try another drug combination, then the third, forth, fifth, changing some variables until you feel better. You know, the drug can be a placebo too. How fun.

[Guest vincecarterxv]

there is one problem with an honours program...

if everyone is getting 80's, then an 80 doesn't mean much. I would have done an honours program if I were interested in one. Recently, UBC has added class averages on transcripts next to your grade.

[Guest BBB]

The class average thing has been there in the transcript for a long time (at least 10 years maybe). There is even a column for class size.

 

80% doesn't mean anything nowadays...maybe it will still be pretty good in USA.

 

I remember someone in my class enrolled in double honours in pharmacology and physiology. He graduated as the top student in our class. 92% overall average!!! Unbelievable. He got into UBC med. Another took double majors in math and pharmacology.

 

I remember some schools add extra bonus points to the total score of those students completing an honours program.

[Guest mitchie41]

Yeah...U of A used to add points for people with honours degrees....but not anymore.

 

 

As for the class averages, I guess honours courses for pharmacology and physiology tend to be higher, but I don't think because the profs go easier on you or anything(or that the courses are easier). My guess is that the students in these programmes are "smarter" than the average students you'll see in just about any other class, since the programmes are SUPER COMPETITIVE to get into.

 

Anyone agree\disagree?

[Guest physiology]

In answer to your question Mitchie41, it really depends on the year and trends in grades.

 

During my PCTH interview, the advisor told me that one year, they rejected people with 86 or 87% averages (and parents even started to call and wonder why).

Why? Supposedly, everyone did well in that year and people had grades in the high 80s and low 90s.

 

My year? 80% seemed to be the magic number this year. Yes, PHYL only accepts 11 or 12 students, but once you're over 80% (barring any extreme fluctuations in grades), you're in.

 

Last year, initially, I chose CHEM/BIOC combined honours, and I based my decision on absolutely loving chem 123.

 

But I'm glad I kept my options open, because after taking 5 chemistry courses last year (chem203, 204, 205, 202, and 211), I found out that I HATED everything but organic. I'd loathe being in chemistry now.

 

So I mean, it's your decision, what let's say you end up hating math and physics, what are you going to do? Flexibility is good. Take everything I say with a grain of salt, it is ultimately your decision.

[Guest BBB]

I think the interview and academic grades are just two of the three components for PCTH admissions. The last requirement is an essay in bioscience topics for 30 minutes. Maybe the department doesn't have essay requirement any more. Anyway, the essay is very easy. In my year, we had two essay topics: comparison of traditional vs modern medicine, and effects of life on health...something like that. I can't remember.

 

When does PHYL department reduce enrollment from 30 to 12?

[Guest canstowski]

Physiology department hasn't accept a class of 30 for quite some time now. I believe the last class of 30 was like 6-7 years ago. My year, we only had 10-11 students.

[Guest physiology]

They reduced enrollment because it's not feasible to have 30 students registered in the PHYL 303 lab.

 

Yah, they got rid of the PCTH essay.

[Guest canstowski]

Here is the ugly side of the physiology program and this also explains why they reduce the enrolment to 10-12 ppl each year.

 

The undergraduate physiology program gets a grand total of ZERO dollar funding each year. In our 3rd and 4th year labs, we use 2nd hand graduate student equipments (pipets, cell flask, etc.). (we even reuse cover slips :\ ) For the larger equipment (respirometer, etc), they are like 50-70 years old. Sometimes we fail to obtain accurate results because of the ancient equipments.

 

According to one of the phsyiology professor, most of the tuition the physiology undergrad students pay goes towards to the UBC MD program. Also, the physiology department is threatening closure of their undergraduate program. I've heard rumors that the Anatomy undergraduate program was eliminated thru similar reasons. This i dunno. :\

[Guest BBB]

I can imagine why they want to eliminate physiology program, because today very few people study physiology. The research is geared toward genetics and computation technology. PCTH may one day also be eliminated, as people may think it will be possible to use computer rather than animals in research. I think PCTH now try to encompass genetics and microbiology in the curriculum and thus it may not be eliminated for quite some time. There is even a term, called pharmacogenetics. Go figure.