Any Biochem majors from UBC here?

[Guest smooth operater]

biochemistry is one of program that I am looking into atm, but my ultimate goal is to

pursue health professional education. I don't really mind which major I

pursue as long it is not too hard so I can keep up my grades and take some interesting art course at the same time. I also would like to puruse a degree that I can fall back on and lead to different opportunities just in case health professional education doesn't work out.

 

Given my goals, do you think I would appreciate biochemistry program?

 

I have heard 3rd biochem is super duper boring. How about 4th yr?

 

Do the biochem dept. staff really support the students?

 

Any rants or praise or tips about the program are welcome!

 

Thanks!

[Guest TKP 123]

Hello,

 

I was in Biochemistry Honours Program at UBC a few years back. So, things may have changed now, but I will tell you what I know.

 

From my experience, third year biochem students need to take lots of courses in Chemistry: 1 Physical Chem and 1 Organic Chem (and both courses require labs) for each term. You also got Biochemistry each term with the lab portion.

So, for a third year student, you need to tolerate the chemistry part. It would be better if you like chemistry. I found the physical chemistry not too useful, though.

I won't say that 3rd year Biochem is super boring, but it can be challenging because of the number of labs and courses you have to take.

 

By the 4th year, if you are a major or honour student in Biochem, you can do either a directed studies or Honour thesis supervised by a professor. That's where you learn. Projects can be pretty interesting to an undergrad depending on which prof you follow. There is also an Advanced Biochem Lab taught by Dr.Barton where you learn Advanced biochemical techniques (such as liposomes, protein biochemistry) and another course learning Advanced molecular biology techniques such as DNA sequencing, cloning, etc... Also, as a 4th year student, you don't need to take any chemistry courses. All you are taking are Biochemistry with electives you choose.

 

So, 4th year is much more interesting than 3rd year in Biochemistry.

 

If you want a solid backup career plan other than medical school after graduation, I strongly suggest you do a Co-op program in Biochemistry, where you are exposed to academic labs or even better industrial setting (like a pharmaceutical company). For me, I have been working in a Pharmaceutical Company performing research in drugs after graduation, and our company hires lots of undergrad Coops and they learn lots of things that they don't learn in schools. With this kind of experience, I am sure you will end up in a decent job (whether academic or industrial based) after graduation. The only draw back for Coop is that you spend an extra year before getting your BSc.

 

For me, working in an industrial setting (a pharmaceutical company) doesn't bore me. There is career growth here because I got the chance to supervise junior staff and design methods for different projects. At the same time, I got the chance to polish myself for med school through improving my communication and working experience. I really think that this is a nice alternative to medicine, because I am doing something that I like while I can support myself financially.

 

Sorry, back to your question, a Biochemistry degree with Coop will surely give you a nice solid backup plan.

 

TKP

[Guest smooth operater]

Thanks TKP 123 for such detailed anwer. Since I plan to pursue a major, I can split chemistry labs into two year. I think that will leviate some pressure off in 3rd year. But which chem courses do u recommend to take in 3rd yr? Organic chem or physical chem?

 

I also would like to do a co-op, but mainly to polish myself and improve my communication skill through working experience since I have very little working experience at the moment. Is it possible to work on campus with professors and get paid for it? One of my deiciding factors for major is the difficulty of getting LOR from science professors.

 

Can a major actually do a directed study course?

[Guest TKP 123]

If you really want to split the chemistry course, then you better take your 3rd year level Organic Chem in your third year, because it requires some knowledge from your 2nd year Organic Chemistry. If you leave this until your 4th year, chance is that it will be more difficult for you because it takes time for your mind to warm up again with all these organic stuff.

 

However, you should note that 3rd year Physical Chem also requires some stuff from 2nd year Physical Chem. Yet, it may be easier to pick up physical chem (formulas) than organic chem.

 

Well, if I were you, I would take both chemistries in my third year to get rid of the headache. Also, your knowledge from second year would make it easier to finish both courses in 3rd year than in 4th year.

 

Coop students can work at both academic lab at school and industrial settings, although industrial settings are more competitive to get in. Either way will get you LOR.

 

A major can do a directed study course, and I think it is called BIOC 448. The difference between honours and majors is that for the majors project, you don't have to stick with a BIOCHEM prof, as you need to for Honours.

 

Most biochem profs are pretty supportive. If they take you as their student, they expect that you need help from them or their lab staff/grad students.

 

What year are you in, Smooth?

[Guest smooth operater]

I am going into 3rd year, and my overall GPA is not too hot (~78%), but I did well in 2nd yr that Dr. Barton confirmed I should have no problem getting into the program.

 

I am just worried that my GPA will drop again if I take bunch of chemistry and biology in 3rd year. I did well last year partly b/c some GPA booster electives I took. I actually got C+ in Organic I, B in Organic II, and B- in inorganic chem

 

Taking Chem 304, 305, 313, 333 and BIO 334, 335 and BIOC 301 and 303 during the same year will really kill me. That's like taking 4.5 ######## science courses during the same year.

 

Is it possible to take some courses during my CO-OP year?

 

Ultimately, my goal is to pursue professional school, so my grade can't go down anymore. That's why I am thinking about general science program where I get to take more courses that I enjoy, which translate to better grades. But it's probably hard to strike a good conversation with prof and get a LOR through directed study since I think it's impossible to do one.

[Guest TKP 123]

For your Coop year, it is only possible to take night courses. I think all these chemistry & biology courses won't be offered at night. In general, your employer doesn't like you to take time off from work and do daytime class.

 

Within the General Science Program, you may still be able to hit up a professor in a department and tell them that you are interested in being a Directed Studies student working in his/her lab. You can do that in your 4th year. However, you had better check with the General Science Advisor to see if this program allows you to do directed studies, because directed studies may only count for students in a certain department.

 

Another approach to get your LOR is to do a summer research program. Try to market yourself to the profs, whether it is paid or volunteering as a research summer student, you still earn experience and get connected with a faculty member.

 

But back to your point of going to medicine, your need 3 letters of reference: 1 academic (probably prof who knows you), 1 personal (can be anyone who knows you... such as your supervisor), and 1 community service. So, make sure you got someone to cover up your volunteering letter.

 

TKP

[Guest andrewuofm]

Do you really want to do research

If yes then go biochem

 

If all you want is med/dent/healthcare

Do pharmacy or nursing.

 

Biochem is a very poor fall back as a career unless you reach PhD, and even then it is quite demanding. You will hate it unless you really like research.

 

I've worked as a tech and I'm finishing my MSc. so I know. Thank god that I got into med school now.

 

If you finish up in biochem and don't get into med, your fall back will basically be technician or sales rep. Poor wages, poorly respected and poorly treated by supervisors unless you get lucky.

 

Also the biochem department is very competitive because a lot of students want med and not research. The atmosphere is not conducive to teamwork / sharing info on tests / research etc. Very little cooperation except in small groups of close friends.

[Guest andrewuofm]

Oh also, very poor staff / faculty support all round.

Students don't help each other (except close friends).

Getting anything from staff (i.e. secretary) is like pulling teeth.

Profs are usually high and mighty, and don't give rats ars.

 

Most unfriendly department I"ve experienced. In the already least friendly canadian university I"ve experienced (except maybe U of T).

 

Also, department has no money for students. We had 1 social event in 4 years (pizza lunch).

 

I will never recommend UBC biochem to anyone. UBC itself has also fallen in my eyes. Despite having the best weather and great facilities / campus, because they people are just not friendly. Also, there are several bizarre policies the university has that are not shared by any other canadian med school.

 

I do want to return to vancouver someday because of family, and my sister / cousin both go to UBC now, but I don't have the respect for UBC that I once did.

[Guest Jazz]

Hi Smooth operator,

 

I grad from UBC biochem a couple of years back. Fortunately, I think i have a better experience than andrewuofm. The professors are quite friendly and willing to answer questions (Dr. Mackie and Dr. Brownsey are two of the best profs I've had in undergrad). The office staff were quite helpful too when I needed their assistance. I had no problems finding professors to write reference letters, they even offered to write one for me before I asked when they found out I was applying. I do agree with andrewuofm that you have to like research if you are planning to fall back on your degree otherwise pharmacy would be a good option. I personally have no interest in bench work and never did a day of research in undergrad. Also, the knowledge you acquired in biochem doesn't really help once you in med school. On the plus side, first sem of med school which is basic science review didn't seem so bad after all the hardcore biochem courses.

[Guest TKP 123]

I must consider myself as a fortunate former UBC biochem student because I did not have the lousy experience that Andrewuofm had. Andrewuofm, did you study at UBC Biochem?

 

As of student friendiness, again, I did not experience a holistic mood at UBC biochem class. Of course, there might be some competition, but I didn't see this as negative. In fact, there will be competition everywhere else, probably even in medical school to a certain degree.

 

As for faculty and staff, I think they are really great. The office staff is pretty helpful, and the faculty is in general supportive. Again, it might just be Andrew being unlucky here, if he experienced this from UBC biochem.

 

For the salary, a research tech working in academic field for 3-4 yrs will earn roughly 37-43k a year. A similar positione in industry makes about 45-50k a year plus benefits. So, here I disagree with Andrew that all research techs are "low-salary". I don't see this as high salary, but obviously not a "low" salary compared to other careers... Maybe he is only comparing to doctors and dentists....

 

But again, the bottom line is if you are interested in a certain field, go ahead and study it.

[Guest BurnabyBeaver]

bottom line is do what want to do you. I personaly want gets into medisine on ubc and was consider do biochem and talk before advisor at ubc and they tolds me take engelish course so better my written and aural skil. If you don't laike biochem don't takes it. Takes whatver degree you wants and takes some fun class like maths or physic.

 

As for reserch, I work as tech in lab now just cleening glaswere and making agre plate. Moneys is good and pays for tution. Probably depend on which lab you works in.

 

~BB~

[Guest FungManX]

hey burnabybeaver, what lab do you work in? and how good exactly is the pay?

[Guest adduction]

Hi everyone,

 

I JUST graduated from UBC Biochem (Class of 2005) and I have to say that I agree that there wasn't a holistic attitude within the class. Everyone was rather cliquey so there were lots of groups and segregation. Competition wasn't as much as to succeed in biochem as it was to get into med school. Roughly a third to a half of the biochem students with me wanted to study medicine as well and that was the only time i saw competition. (People ostensibly bragging about getting interviews and trying to find out if their competition beat them on the MCAT...) In my graduation class alone - the people who didn't get into med school are doing a second B.Sc. program until they do get in...they're not willing to get the M.Sc. and/or the Ph.D. That should speak volumes right there.

 

My opinion about the staff/faculty is that it varies but for the most part is quite good. You will encounter some profs who don't seem to give a rat's ass about whether you understand thematerial or not, and you will encounter some profs who go out of their way to help you (Dr. Mackie and Dr. Strynadka are two that comes to mind). Then again, find me a program that doesn't have some profs who are apathetic and some who are interested in seeing you being successful.

 

As a back up plan for medicine, I'd agree with Andrew that it's hardly the best. Not only is it difficult to distinguish yourself academically in the field, but if you do need to rely on it if med doesn't come through - there's only so far you can go unless you intend to become the other doctor (Ph.D.)

 

There's this notion out there in pre-medical circles that to do medicine you need to major in biochemistry. That's bull#*%, and it's funny how many times you can hear admissions officers say this to clusters of students and they still don't believe it. Everyone who wants to do medicine plans it out: "Biochem then Med". In fact, it's probably better to do something OTHER than biochem as a pre-med major. (Think about how many biochemists' applications the admissions committee reviews annually! Want to distinguish yourself? Try another major - preferably one that interests you).

 

My final advice, which has been reiterated countless times in this forum and elsewhere, do biochem if you're interested in it. That is, if you're interested in experiencing the lab work it entails, the research it entails, and if you're passionate about the science itself. If you just want to do biochem because you (incorrectly) think you need to major in it to get into med school - get out and do something else.

 

My two cents.

[Guest TKP 123]

It's pretty much accurate that the Medicine Admission Office receives tons of people with Biochem and other life science degrees. If you need to stand out from the flock, then you had better possess something other than stellar grades and MCAT scores.

 

TKP.

[Guest smooth operater]

Woah! Thanks for all the comments regarding biochem. I didn't know so many people are in this program. I am actually planning to apply for dentistry which I heard GPA is heavily emphasized and they don't care what degree you get. My tutor for the DAT also advise me to stay away from biochem UNLESS I am REALLY interested in research. He said many of his friends end up doing an accounting program after graduating from biochem. I detest working in the lab for long time and only have interest in biochem, but not passion.

My only reasons for going for biochem are that I can get a lab tech job if dentistry doesn't work out and easier to associate with profs to write LOR.

 

I am looking into general science program which will allow me to take some anatomy, physiology, and pharmacology courses. On top of them, I can take many art electives that I am interested in. But my only concern is that it will be hard for me to find a good prof to write a LOR in general science program.

 

I heard it's possible to do a Msc. in Pathology with a general sci. degree? Is that correct?

 

 

Thank for all the great feedbacks, you guys have been great! if other biochemer are around, plz share them.

[Guest BurnabyBeaver]

Hey FungMan,

 

I only tech in lab so if give you name, my identity is vanished. Like batman, only hot girl gets to know my identity.

 

Salary is non-yunion but level 5 part time so about $28000/year (3.5 hours per day) Likes i said, salary depend on prof and your level of expertis.

 

If you look job, try website

 

www.hr.ubc.ca/postings/ne.../main.html

 

~BB~

[Guest TKP 123]

Several years ago, when my girlfriend was an undergrad, her first job was working as a part-time lab tech, cleaning glasswares and filling up pipette tips. It did help her making some money. Although she did not perform any experiments during that time, it allowed her to know a prof and get some reference for her later jobs/schools.

 

Sometimes, profs won't post these jobs on any website, but what you can do is to go to the department office and ask for any jobs available for an undergrad with no experience. This is one of the ways to get your first job if you have no other experience.

[Guest smooth operater]

I don't actually mind cleaning glasswares and filling up pipette tips as long that I am able to know some profs who may write reference letter for later job/schools. I checked Beaver's link, and it seems most of lab tech position don't really require students with specific degree like biochem. Is that pretty true?

[Guest TKP 123]

Yes, most of these cleaning job only require High School graduation with a little experience working in a laboratory setting.

[Guest andrewuofm]

I graduated from UBC in 2002. Honors biochem.

 

For those of you who post that UBC is friendly, how much experience do you have with other CDN universities...

 

As a tech at UBC level 3, I made 30K / year.

Now as a MSc. Student I make 17K /year from studentships.

 

I made it into med this year but not at UBC. In fact, I was invited to interview but didn't even go for a UBC interview due to their absurd policy of "You must finish a graduate program by July bla bla bla" which NO OTHER cdn university has.

 

Also, as a tech, you are non-unionized and there is no one to look out for you and no grievance system to file complaints of unfair treatment.

 

Keep in mind that in industry these days, there is no shortage of PhD's for them to hire, and lots of times even a MSc. degree won't even cut it (browse through the job section of Science or Nature). There are plenty of experienced techs with either publications or multiple years of research experience, or recent immigrants who are willing to accept "low" wages (I say low because I compare biochem to other BSc. degrees like nursing, engineering, comp sci etc.

 

Also, MSc/PhD degrees in biochem are typically 1 year longer than other degrees due to he tedious and time consuming nature of the work. 5 year PhD's in biochem are pretty standard now.

 

Unless you really like research don't do it. Being underpaied and overeducated to end up with a low paying job is unsatisfying. I wish that I had done nursing or pharmacy.

[Guest TKP 123]

I have experience working in UA, SFU, and UBC, and I like UBC, probably because I spend most of my time there. So, Andrew, are you comparing UBC with UT and Manitoba? I guess it is hard to compare because everybody has different stories, and I realize that experience working with one prof will be very different from that working with another prof even in the same department.

 

I do agree that the training in graduate school (e.g. PhD) takes longer (in fact I know someone who works in a lab for 7yrs for a PhD), and doesn't earn as much as other professions (e.g. nursing). But still there are successful PhD people who hold senior positions in universities, industries, and other organizations which can also earn a lot. I guess it is legitimate to say that, in order to be a successful PhD graduate, you have to be intelligent and in the right field, right timing, etc... If that field is a hottie after your graduation, then you will probably be laughing. Also keep in mind that even within biochemistry, there are so many different fields: molecular biology, cellular pathway, protein crystallography, etc... you have to have the insight to see which one will be "hot" filed by the time you graduate with your PhD.

 

I also agree that people in non-unionized professions have less bargain power with the employer. The nice thing about non-unionized jobs is that you don't have to pay for the union fee from your pay cheque.

 

UBC techs may be non-unionized, but it is not true in other organizations. For example, techs in BC Cancer Agency are in union and they need to pay for the union fee.

 

As a research associate after my BSc for several years, I made about 50k /year in a pharmaceutical company plus benefits, stock options. I also have three biochem friends who work at UBC academic labs as techs and they make about 40-45k a year. So, I guess it depends on your experience, the nature of your job, which lab you end up in. I also want to bring up the point that sometimes you don't really need a PhD or MSc to be at senior positions in a company. Quite a number of senior staff in our company only have BSc, and they make 70k-90k a year. But these are really smart people, and have about more than 7 years of experience after their Biochem, Microbio, Genetics, etc... BSc graduation. After the first few years of bench work, these people become the Project Managers, designing experiments and asking the techs to carry them out.

 

But I agree with Andrew that unless you like research, don't do a PhD in biochemistry. But I guess sometimes you don't know what you like until you try it out.

 

TKP

[Guest smooth operater]

Hey guys, those are some great insights to Biochemistry. I should have known earlier that degree doesn't really matter for professional school. I only have little intentation of doing a research or lab work as my career. Getting a PhD was never in my mind. I guess that I was that naive science student who thought biochem is a great path to medicine. Too bad I can either enter general science or biochemistry with the pre-reqs I 've done after 2 years of science, else I will be behind a year. I am starting to look into different options that I can go with a general science degree in case professional doesn't work out. I think there are some master programs like Pathology which doesn't ask for specific degrees to be admitted, and I think I may be more interested in that area than biochemistry.

[Guest TKP 123]

Yes, pathology is pretty interesting as well.

 

The only thing I realize is that most undergrad pathology courses are for people who are in the Medical Laboratory Program. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

However, for those lecture-based pathology undergrad course, most people should be able to enroll. Just make sure that you have the pre-reqs for the pathology lab courses that you want.

 

Although pathology PhD studies would still cost you 5 years, it might be much better to do than something uninteresting to you.

 

 

TKP

[Guest ewon2003]

FYI... there was one classmate in my class from biochem who was very passionate about the major and did well in it. He eventually got into all the med schools he interviewed (something like 6 or 7 schools across Canada) as a 3rd year applicant. There are a lot of biochem majors in my class as well. It's one of the most popular majors in my class from reading the class bio.

 

Maybe med schools give extra value to those who are able to excel in hardcore basic science courses.

[Guest TKP 123]

Yes, also, since more biochem students apply, more chances of these people who get in ultimately.