Guest shkelo Posted July 3, 2002 Report Share Posted July 3, 2002 I thought some of you might find this amusing. The FAQs of the U of A's med admissions website has been updated to reflect next admission cycle. For years, it has been untold truth that it didn't matter if you took a general or honors undergraduate degree (which was true from the standpoint of admissions). Well, starting next year, an honors degree gives an applicant 3 bonus marks (equivalent to someone with a PhD!!) towards their overall score. All I can say is it's about time that those that choose to pursue higher level courses are rewarded for their efforts. (I took an honors B.Sc. degree at U of A and was rejected by U of A the first time I applied.) This should help to discourage the so-called "GPA stacking" (with menial 200-level courses) by those applicants who try to beat the system!! It may also make it more difficult to gain admission to U of A as a general degree student (4 yr+ pool) since this should encourage people to remain in popular honors B.Sc. degree programs, like physiology and biochemistry, which usually have a significant drop-off rate after 2nd year as students become wise to the "system". These programs at the U of A traditionally have a lot of "pre-med" students, many of which eventually go on into medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shkelo Posted July 3, 2002 Report Share Posted July 3, 2002 Yikes, my grammar is horrible in the last post. I guess I should register to get that all important "edit" feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shkelo Posted July 3, 2002 Report Share Posted July 3, 2002 Ok, I've finally registered an account. No more bad grammar!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EB Posted July 4, 2002 Report Share Posted July 4, 2002 Haha... The new changes aren't going to benefit me, but I know a few of my friends who are going to be *SO* happy!! Maybe now, physiology will graduate more than the 7 or students each year in their Honors program... By the way, are those extra 3 points only awarded after the completion of the B.Sc.? EB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shkelo Posted July 4, 2002 Report Share Posted July 4, 2002 Yes, the 3 points are only awarded if you've completed an Honors degree, not just enrolled in the program. So I interpret that to mean there will be no difference in scoring for 2nd/3rd year applicants, but it will affect scores of those in the 4 yr+ pool. 3 points doesn't sounds like much, but if interview scores can move an applicant by 60+ places (a difference of 5 points between interview placement rankings), that can give an Honors student a significant advantage over the general applicant pool. It is kind of scary that the weighting of an Honors degree in on par with someone with a PhD. For someone determined to go to medicine who has had some early academic troubles, a 1 year thesis-based Master's from the UK (2 bonus points), an Honors degree (3 bonus point), and pre-req course upgrading (worth 25% overall) makes for a pretty potent application at U of A. I think this is the first instant of a school that has given differential weighting for undergraduate degrees. Pretty cool if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest monkey Posted July 4, 2002 Report Share Posted July 4, 2002 hey how do you edit your msgs? i cant seem to be able to do that. thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ManitobaMed Posted July 4, 2002 Report Share Posted July 4, 2002 Hey monkey, You can edit your posts if you log in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest summervirus Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 Just an update... I was just looking over the admissions FAQ... (got sick of studying for tomorrow's exam): www.med.ualberta.ca/ugme/...medfaq.cfm It looks like they changed the number of points that are awarded to MSc students. I'm pretty sure that it was 2 points in the past. It's been changed to 1 point this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil667 Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 I can't believe that they regard a Honors project as three times more than a Masters! I thought it was nuts that they only gave it 2 points before, now it's 1! Oh well, I don't have a Master's anyways, I just think that is a little crazy . Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 Hi guys, It is just a tad odd, however, if it's not a typo, then it helps to enlighten us as to some of the qualities that they're selecting for. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest summervirus Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 I remember a conversation I had with shkelo right before classes started. He said that the UofA doesn't seem to compensate graduate students very well for the extra years that they spend in school. Kirsteen, I suppose you're right. They might be trying to weight the applicant pool to favour a certain group. But, I know that there are still quite a few PhD/MSc students in my class. I also remember something that someone told me a few months ago. Residents of Alberta are actually quite fortunate because they have two schools (UC & UA) that they can apply to as in-province applicants. But, both schools tend to favour different types of students. At the UofC, there is a strong trend where more older applicants are offered admission. I have a friend that's in her 2nd year (UC). She says that roughly 1/3 of her class are grad students. I have another friend in 1st year (UC) and he says that it seems like around half his classmates are grad students. In fact, a number of the PhD students were still defending their thesis during the first month of class... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mandm Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 shkelo, Just wondering: did you do any gard work b/f med school. Just curious as to whether you found it helpful or not... thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aneliz Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 It was pointed out that "an honours degree gives three times the points of a masters...(honours = 3 bonus points, masters = 1 bonus point). BUT: in order to do a masters, does one not NEED to have done an honours undergrad? Therefore, the person with the masters would get 4 bonus points (3 for honours undergrad + 1 for masters). The person with a PhD would get 6 bonus points (3 for honours undergrad + 3 for PhD). While the person with just an honours would get 3 bonus points. So, it is not entirely true that an honours undergrad is worth more than a masters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mandm Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 Sorry! that should have read "GRAD" school... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest summervirus Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 Aneliz, A student can pursue a Master's Degree without having a Honours Bachelor's Degree -- at least this is true at the UofC and UofA... There are also a variety of Master's Degrees available. Some MSc's are purely coursebased and do not have any laboratory component. And, I've also heard of some that can be completed in one year, not two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted October 16, 2002 Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 Hi guys, FYI, there is also at least one Masters degree here in Ontario that you can complete without an Honours undergrad degree--some MBA programs permit entry with a 3-year degree. Also, with respect to the bonus points that Alberta dishes out, isn't there also the possibility that the categories could be mutually exclusive? For example, there's the possibility that you receive a certain bonus score for the highest level of education achieved, therefore, if you have a PhD, then you'd receive the 3 PhD points, but not the points for the potential undergrad Honours and Masters degrees that you completed. Does anyone have any insight more accurate than mine (and I'm conjecturing) on this? Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aneliz Posted October 16, 2002 Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 This is an interesting debate....in Ontario there are very, very few MSc programs (coursework or thesis based) that will take someone without an honours degree....I assume that the system is somewhat different in Alberta? In Ontario, in general, there are three year general undergrad degrees and four year honours degrees (some with and some without a thesis). My academic counsellors always told us that if you did the three year general degree than you were shutting yourself out of grad school and reducing your chances of getting into teacher's colleges. (Most faculties of education prefer a four year degree). I have no idea about the MBA programs...Kirsteen would know much better! As for the mutually exclusive categories of bonus points, interesting suggestion, maybe the moderators have a better idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest summervirus Posted October 16, 2002 Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 I think that the three-year general degree is only available in Ontario. (Correct me if I'm wrong). But, I know that in Alberta (UA and UC), both a general and an honours degree are four-years in length. The difference between the two degrees amounts to the courses that are required. Kirsteen is right. From what I was told (forgot who), the bonus marks are NOT summed. For example, if a PhD student applied (and had completed an honours degree and a MSc), he would only get THREE points, NOT seven. (I know that sounds weird, especially with how the admissions committee awarded points last year... you would naturally assume that most PhD applicants would get 5 points... 2 from their Master's degree and 3 from their doctorate... but it isn't true). Hope this clarifies some questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mirrille Posted October 17, 2002 Report Share Posted October 17, 2002 That points allocation system does not make sense to me at all. I was under them impression that they were cumulative. For example, if someone had an honours Bachelor, and then did an M.Sc., and you could only get the points for one of those, would they give you 1 point for your M.Sc. (i.e. highest level of education) or 3 points for the honours Bachelor (i.e. greatest number of points)? Somehow, it doesn't fit to me. But I had neither of those things, so I couldn't worry about it either way at the time I applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted October 17, 2002 Report Share Posted October 17, 2002 Hi guys, I decided to try to end the struggle and give UofA a wee shout to help clarify this issue. Here's what I was told: the current scoring system (3-Honours, 1-Masters, 3-PhD) is being debated at present (in fact, meetings are supposedly being held on this issue as I type). The scoring system for this year will be cumulative, i.e., if you hold a PhD and have completed both a Masters and an Honours degree, then you will be awarded a total of 7 "bonus" points. The maximum number of points that any one individual can achieve is 7, that is, even if you have multiples of any of those degree types that would push you above 7 points, e.g., one PhD, 2 Masters and 1 Honours, the maximum number of points you will receive for all those letters after your name is 7. This scoring system will change next year, that is, not for this current round of applications, but for the next. What is being proposed, apparently, is that no bonus points will be awarded for an undergraduate Honours degree. Instead, bonus points will be given to postgraduate degrees only (Masters and PhDs). The reason for this is that apparently UofA are finding that there is just too much diversity among the content and requirements of Honours programs therefore they feel that it is difficult to judiciously and sweepingly award extra points for an Honours. Hope this helps, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shkelo Posted October 19, 2002 Report Share Posted October 19, 2002 First off, to mandm...yes, I have a graduate degree. Do I think it's useful? Yes and No. Graduate school experience teaches you a different way of learning (if it is thesis-based, that is, not course-based). You simply cannot pass a few courses and receive your degree. You are trained to think, not regurgitate facts on some exam. To me, grad school felt like a job, not really school anymore, because I was taking the science that I learned during my undergrad and applying it to solve problems in a scientific discipline. This "application" process is not unlike medical school, where you'll learn the medical/clinical background and then apply those principles to treat patients. From a med school application point of view, sure... a graduate degree is going to help, but it is not a guarantee into medicine. Besides the obvious bonus points for grad school, the experience is chalked full of interesting opportunities to travel to conferences around the world, meet absolutely brilliant people (I once met Sydney Brenner - this year's co-winner of the Nobel Prize in Medicine, but that's another story), and benefit from a different pace of life that allows you to do other things that you enjoy. I'd also say no because of the time element and your expectation at the end. You don't need an MSc or a PhD to do medicine. Will you make use of that degree after medicine? Maybe. Of the MD/PhDs that I know, life can be quite hectic (maybe not as hectic as some surgical specialities). Research is a full-time job, as is clinical medicine. To do both well can be difficult. The more the two areas compliment each other though, the easier it will be in the end. These things are never black and white. To clarify some of the confusing points made, bonus points are awarded to individuals that have conferred their degrees. Bachelor of Science degrees in Alberta come in three flavours: general, specialization, and honours. Only the honours degree will be awarded bonus points. Someone with a PhD won't automatically receive 7 points. If the applicant pursued a general Bachelor's degree, started a Master's but transferred to a PhD after the first year (which is quite common), they would only receive 3 points total at the end of their PhD. I'm sure you could think up other combinations as well. You're right, Kristeen, the scoring system is cumulative. Your point is also correct about what the admissions committee "sees" as their level of importance. They are trying to tackle the problem of student dropping like flies from the honours programs in the hopes to boost their GPAs enough to get into medicine. Sometimes this strategy works, but more often it doesn't. How can a school encourage students to pursue research (which is largely the main difference in an honours program, besides courses as summervirus mentioned)? This is one way and I tend to agree with it. 1 point for a Master's is pretty unfair given the amount of time it usually takes. I also think the admissions committee is trying to encourage students to pursue higher level degrees (PhDs) rather than "just a Master's" as a stepping stone into medicine. They should award 2 points each for an honours degree and a thesis-based Master's and 1 point for a course-based Master's (usually this can be taken in 1 year). 3 points for a PhD should remain the highest bonus achieved. Hmmm, I might have to talk to our admissions rep. about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Unknown </username> <dateline>1118446800</dateline> <title>Unknown</title> <pagetext>(This Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 (This post is missing and can not be restored)</pagetext> </post> <post> <thread>Y</thread> <threadtitle>average age</threadtitle> <threadviews>0</threadviews> <threadsticky>0</threadsticky> <poll></poll> <username>oilersm</username> <dateline>1048956000</dateline> <title>average age</title> <pagetext>Two questions: 1. What's the average age of students in first year med school at UA? 2. Do you know what marks we need to maintain, both cumulative and this term, if we've already been accepted? thanks:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Unknown </username> <dateline>1118446800</dateline> <title>Unknown</title> <pagetext>(This Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 (This post is missing and can not be restored)</pagetext> </post> <post> <thread>N</thread> <threadtitle>It's about time!!</threadtitle> <threadviews>0</threadviews> <threadsticky>0</threadsticky> <poll></poll> <username> Unknown </username> <dateline>1118446800</dateline> <title>Unknown</title> <pagetext>(This post is missing and can not be restored) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Unknown </username> <dateline>1118446800</dateline> <title>Unknown</title> <pagetext>(This Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 (This post is missing and can not be restored)</pagetext> </post> <post> <thread>N</thread> <threadtitle>It's about time!!</threadtitle> <threadviews>0</threadviews> <threadsticky>0</threadsticky> <poll></poll> <username> Unknown </username> <dateline>1118446800</dateline> <title>Unknown</title> <pagetext>(This post is missing and can not be restored) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Unknown </username> <dateline>1118446800</dateline> <title>Unknown</title> <pagetext>(This Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 (This post is missing and can not be restored)</pagetext> </post> <post> <thread>N</thread> <threadtitle>It's about time!!</threadtitle> <threadviews>0</threadviews> <threadsticky>0</threadsticky> <poll></poll> <username> Unknown </username> <dateline>1118446800</dateline> <title>Unknown</title> <pagetext>(This post is missing and can not be restored) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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