Guest Ian Wong Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 But to me, a good lifestyle = NO on call and 9-5 as much as possible.Unfortunately, the only three specialties that I think can truly deliver this are Derm, Rad Onc, and Path. There's a whole lot of other specialties that could get into this arena if you work part-time or otherwise rig yourself and your practice to sacrifice $$$ to achieve that lifestyle (ie. anesthesiologist working at an oral surgeon office or in a private OR, radiologist working at an imaging center doing only elective MRI cases or non-emergent things like mammography, psychiatrist doing only out-patient work, without admitting privileges). Still, I think any specialty with an office component is never going to be completely 9-5 since you'll have to dedicate a significant proportion of non-clinical after-hours time to running the practice. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest desiguy8179 Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 actually its quite common for family docs to be working outpatient only with no call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 actually its quite common for family docs to be working outpatient only with no call And then spend saturday and sunday doing the paperwork to make their office work. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ploughboy Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 ----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Another data point - our class had a tour of a geriatric facility last week. Our tour guide made a point of telling us that he works 37.5 hours/wk and makes $250,000/yr salary. He does do occassional Saturday and Sunday mornings, however. Perhaps it's not a veritable fortoona, but considering how little overhead he has, I'm sure he's pretty comfortable. I believe geriatrics is 3 years of IM + a 2 year fellowship, but don't quote me on that. I think you can do a FM fellowship in geriatrics as well. He also pointed out that geriatrics really isn't for everybody... pb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFDSufi/HNgbK3bC2wRAhGuAJ4n6itFe37i+W+gNnZrNGVn64hyqgCcDnkU g4DVbqtS6Q7e8jId7eFHIHo= =t8lr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest desiguy8179 Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 quote And then spend saturday and sunday doing the paperwork to make their office work. . . thats not true,the perceptors i have worked with either dictate by recording or just write it off on computer. and is not such a big deal,it also really depends on how efficient u are and it holds true for every speciality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Hi there, No matter what the specialty, and even though most physicians (especially those within hospitals) have administrative assistants, there is always paperwork to do. It's the most common gripe that I've heard from most of the clinicians I've worked with. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marbledust Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 I think I would add *some* areas of psychiatry to the "good lifestyle list." The renumeration is definately not be as high as other fields; But depending on what population of patients you choose to work with, a private psychiatry practice can be tailored to very good hours (ie 9-5 ish) without sacrificing too much income. Paperwork is, however, an evil necessity of any specialty--even derm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest endingsoon Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Yes but you have to have look at the money... 250grand is chump change for post cardiologists/gi/nephro people. Nephro (with their dialysis payments) make around 6-700. GI is also very high. Cardiology pays differentely according to what you do (interventional vs. echo, etc) but in general they usually average around 4-500 as well. Cardiology esp. is very lifestyle unfriendly, so their is a tradeoff. AS well, I don't think that the competition is getting better for cardio. My impression is that it gets worse every year, esp. with their being no cap now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cheech10 Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Nephro is great if you can find a dialysis centre to work in. Good luck finding one in most major centres. Without that the pay is much more average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 I've heard that for Nephro. Ditto for GI - I've heard a few stories of GI fellows graduating and not being able to find work in the TO or Vancouver areas. Once you get work, the money is fantastic. But you might not get your first choice location. For specialties that sound too good to be true, it's often imperative to at least look at the job situation on finishing fellowship training. I've heard of situations where the only jobs available were in places like Sydney, Moncton or Regina or Winnipeg. Nothing wrong with those locations but if you're from the Fraser Valley or T.O and are bound and determined to stay there, some specialties might not be ideal. . . BTW - Alberta has a policy that anyone who matches to Internal Med is guaranteed the IM fellowship of their choice. The result (as I understand it) is that there are 5-6 GI fellows here in Calgary this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest moo Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 UWO, that's why I am dead set on FP now. I thought about GI for a LOOOOONG time, and then anesthesia for even longer. That's why I decided to stay general... and do FP. Location is far more important to me than either money or prestige. The thought of not being able to be where I want to be after 5-6 years of training scared me into staying general. The icing on the cake is that I actually loved FP when I did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Yeah, I had similar thoughts when choosing family practice. It's not THE reason for going family, but I wanted some control over where I ended up - and many of the specialties can have issues with this! For the record though, my understanding is that anaesthesia is one specialty where you can almost completely choose where to work. . . due to its unpopularity in the 1980s and early 1990s. Admittedly, I haven't done a lot of research into this at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest moo Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Yeah, but the prospect of a four or five year residency is not very appealing. I would just hate to still be "in-training" when I'm in my 30s! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marbledust Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 BTW - Alberta has a policy that anyone who matches to Internal Med is guaranteed the IM fellowship of their choice. The result (as I understand it) is that there are 5-6 GI fellows here in Calgary this year. Maybe I am wrong, but my understanding of this is that it is the fellowship spot itself that is guaranteed in Alberta--but not necessarily the specialty of choice. When it was explained to me, this is because the funding is attached to the resident, not the residency spot (as is the case in many other provinces). Maybe somebody (Akane200?) could clarify the situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JSS02 Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 I was told when I was on elective in Edmonton that in Alberta (U of A/UC) they are guaranteed funding for a fellowship spot, not a specific specialty. Though it seems like in Ontario, the vast majority of IM residents get into a fellowship anyway, so I'm not sure how much this matters. I was also told that at U of A, their own residents get first dibs when competing for specific subspecialties as well (not sure if that's an official policy or not)... but again, it seems like most schools favour their own residents anyway, so I'm not sure how much of a difference this makes. I know the GI program in London took at least 3 UWO R3s this past year, if not more. McMaster has 5 first year GI fellows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest summervirus Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Yeah, I think that JSS02 is right. Something to clarify though, UA IM residents are guaranteed funding for 5 years if they stay at the UA. Similarly, UC residents are guaranteed the funding if they stay at UC. UA residents that want to jump over to Calgary (or vice versa) need to apply for spots and funding like everyone else and the funding doesn't go with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Apologies - you guys probably are correct. I know there is some sort of policy in regards to fellowships in Alberta - it may just be funding for fellowship, not a SPECIFIC fellowship of one's choice. I'm not too sure - Akane might be able to clarify. But I am fairly confident that Calgary has a surprisingly large number of GI fellows this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marbledust Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Something to clarify though, UA IM residents are guaranteed funding for 5 years if they stay at the UA. Similarly, UC residents are guaranteed the funding if they stay at UC. UA residents that want to jump over to Calgary (or vice versa) need to apply for spots and funding like everyone else and the funding doesn't go with them. lol...that was what I was trying to say. But upon re-reading my post, I see I was a little ambigiuos with my wording. As for what actual difference this makes for IM fellowship, I am not sure because I am unfamiliar with the process in other provinces. Theoretically one benefit is that it *should* make transferring between residency programs easier because you don't have the hassle of finding funding as it comes with you. When my partner switched programs, having funding was what facilitated a fairly painless transfer. However, switching in any situation is going to be difficult, and again I don't know what happens in other provinces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Becca Posted November 8, 2005 Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 UWO, that's why I am dead set on FP now. I thought about GI for a LOOOOONG time, and then anesthesia for even longer. That's why I decided to stay general... and do FP. Location is far more important to me than either money or prestige. The thought of not being able to be where I want to be after 5-6 years of training scared me into staying general. The icing on the cake is that I actually loved FP when I did it. Are there any other specialties that would allow one to choose where to live (easily) after residency? I'm not totally convinced family is for me (although I have just started meds, we will see, right?) but I do want to be able to be "home" for good once I'm finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest therealcrackers Posted November 8, 2005 Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 UWO has 4 new cardiology fellows and 4 new nephro fellows this year, with a couple of GI and respiorology thrown in. Today was the first day for offers for the current PGY-3s, and at least 2 of them are staying for GIM, another for respirology, and another for med onc. The "PGY PLUS" pool for PGY-4 spots is quite elastic, depending on the number of applicants to each specialty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest physiology Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 That's awesome how they allow people to choose their own fellowships. Now if only we got to choose our own residencies and get them no matter what Just to touch on the lifestyle issues, generally, the more prestigious and well-paid the specialty is, the worse the lifestyle. This is true generally for internal medicine. Why is it that cardiology is seen as prestigious? Is it just because CVD is the leading COD in Canada? People tend to gravitate towards GI because there are so many organs to work with. But then again, you're restricted by the number of endoscopy suites that are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest strider2004 Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 GI guys still have to do call (toxic megacolons..etc..) and manage the GI in patients (usually IBD patients). Actually they have terrible call. They manage all the GI bleeds, pancreatitis, etc. Even the attendings often need to come in immediately to scope an unstable upper bleed. IBD is a very small proportion of what they do and toxic megacolon is more of a gensurg issue. Now, GI is actually MORE competitive than cardio. I believe there were closer to 60 people wanting GI this past year as oppsed to 45 wanting cardio. There are also fewer spots in GI than cardio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cheech10 Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 That's centre-dependent. In Toronto, only emergent scopes for unstable patients go to GI, everyone else goes to medicine and GI sees in the AM. Actually, that's how every subspecialty pretty much works in Toronto, so aside from Cardiology and Team, call is pretty light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest strider2004 Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 I know, i was talking about the unstable patients. Unstable patients come in to Kingston every night so you usually see the GI attending at some point in emerg. They will often come in for a severe pancreatitis as well just because the mortality is so high. I consider it a heavy specialty because the attending needs to come IN for the procedure. Nephrologists and respirologists need to come in as well but thats more rare. Most other subspecialties can be done over the phone, so that I would consider light. In IM those who get paid well have to work for it. Interventional cardiologists get much more than other cardiologists but their call is pretty bad. They are the ones coming in at 4am to do a cath. Though from what I understand in Toronto many centres don't have 24h cath which is surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest physiology Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Yes, The PD for GI said that "GI is a front-line specialty. Students should carefully consider their career options." Thanks for clarifying what GI guys do - that's what we get taught as 2nd years Anyway, agreed. If you get paid well, you have to work for it. Same goes for the lifestyle surgical specialties (ophtho, ENT, and some may uro as well)They're "lifestyle" specialties because they don't get as much OR time because hospital administrators delegate the OR time to gen surg, neurosurg, cardiothoracic surg, etc. And the OR is where you make the $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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