Guest kevinlondon Posted July 12, 2002 Report Share Posted July 12, 2002 Hi, just a quickie re: the Canadian forces/MOTP subsidization - I know the rule of thumb is that you can sign up in 2nd year Is the rationale that they want to see if you successfully complete 1st year or the total number of years subsidized (i.e. 3 MD + 2 PGY's= 5 years, a typical number for subsidy for their programs). The real question is: For 3-year schools (Mac/Calgary), can you apply going straight into 1st year or do you still have to await 2nd year? Thanx, Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest governorgeneral Posted July 13, 2002 Report Share Posted July 13, 2002 hey kevin, i don't think there are that many of us who are interested in the programme, and fewer still who might know the answer to that... from my reading of the recruiting material you _would_ be able to, but you're probably best off asking a recruiting office directly. i'm not sure of why they have that rule in the first place. let us all know when you get an answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kevinldn Posted July 15, 2002 Report Share Posted July 15, 2002 Okay, here's the scoop. I just called the recruiting office here in london. The answer was: 57 months! That's maximum total subsidy. i.e. subtract 24 months for a family medicine residency. Leaving 33 months. The Calgary curriculum (as an example) that I took off the web appears to total to 32 months. So, it's not a question of getting you to do a year on your own, it's just the total subsidized period that counts. Of course you owe them 3-4 years after you're done... Here's another question then: What do you think the chances are of landing a (for ex) surgical residency 6-years post med school. a) Can you still apply in the first iteration of the match? If you opt to stay in the forces and have a subsidized surgical (or other) residency, are there "extra" residency spots that may not be available to others because it isn't a MOH-funded spot? Ciao, kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDSP Posted February 24, 2003 Report Share Posted February 24, 2003 Hi, I notice that the last post in this area was more than 6 months ago. I'm in the process of applying to meds this year (for Sep 03 start). Like many of those who posted on this site last year, I am considering the MOTP option. Can anyone who was considering the program provide with with an idea of their final decision and what motivated them to choose that route? Thanks, PD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tirisa Posted February 24, 2003 Report Share Posted February 24, 2003 Hey PDSP. Check the residency, CARMS, and beyond board for lots of discussion about the Canadian Forces program. One guy, Matt (MTSW I think) is extremely knowledgeable about it, so you can certainly direct some of your more specific questions to him. Cheers, T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dannyboy Posted February 24, 2003 Report Share Posted February 24, 2003 If I am accepted its MOTP all the way for me. I asked about being accepted for specialties after you've fulfilled the required FOUR years---every school I asked said that Armed Forces drs are desirable candidates. The decision is a personal one. I want to do oversees UN work so its great for me---but because this is an essentially manditory component of the program it is not for everyone. I liked the 'team-work' aspect of the military. I can move around the country (although you are only posted once). I don't mind the disciplined nature of the military--also not for everyone. I needed the funding--not everyone's situation. The military stresses physical fitness--no problem. I am in optimal health--an important criteria. No drugs--double no problem. No significant family considerations...the list goes on...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDSP Posted February 24, 2003 Report Share Posted February 24, 2003 Thanks tirisa. Seems like they had a heated discussion! PD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDSP Posted February 24, 2003 Report Share Posted February 24, 2003 Dannyboy, Where are you in school now? Have you made application to MOTP yet? Did the recruiters put you in touch with other MOTP med students/residents/physicians? Thanks, PD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dannyboy Posted February 24, 2003 Report Share Posted February 24, 2003 I am currently a graduate student at U of T--two more months to go. I live in Toronto. If I get an interview, I will start the recruitment process but you are not accepted into the MOTP program until you get an unconditional acceptance. At this point, I think my chances at an interview are slim so I am not exactly banking on joining the forces this year. Even if I get an interview, I am undecided about whether I will go. My friends and profs will shoot me if I don't so I likely will. The situation is complicated. Marks aren't an issue but confidence is....it's always something. Yes, I have had ample offers to "shadow" and to interview a wide variety of military personnel. I have yet to do it since I know quite a number of people already in the forces so I would say I know enough to base my decision on. If you have yet to contact them than you should--they are very helpful and quite open about both the pros and cons of military life. Where do you hang your hat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QM6 Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Hey PD, I'm one of the original posters above (governorgeneral), now at Queen's. Just to update, I started getting my forms in for the MOTP and hopefully everything will be set in time for IAP basic training this summer (24 June if I remember correctly). Motivations... the service aspect MTSW and Dannyboy get into at pub125.ezboard.com/fpreme...=100.topic and above really appeal to me too, and that's the main thing pushing me to the military. Here at Queen's we're running this "Medicine and Activism" elective, and while the usual Doctors Without Borders and other international organisations are giving talks, it looks like they forgot to invite a military doc to come by too, which I think is bizarre since the most obvious chance to get out there, be an "activist" and take your work to almost any setting imaginable - Canada or internationally - is with the military. The opportunities are amazing. Fortunately financial issues aren't a concern to me, but it means family/friends don't all see why the MOTP is my choice. Hopefully things will work out though... Dannyboy, are you interviewing only at Mac and Calgary? 'Cause as far as I know, MOTP funding is only for your last 3 years of med school, so if you were going into a 4 year school, you don't have to start applying to the military until you're already in. (Here at Queen's they wanted to see my transcript from 1st semester before starting the process.) Of course Mac and Calgary don't have the same issue. Good luck all! [edited to fix link - never get that coding right...] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ryguy Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 All, I'm in the military currently and trying to get into medical school, so I can understand both sides. I think military subsidation is based on months of subsidized education vice years, up to a max of 64 months. Let me know if you want to find out what military life is like and I know there are a few others in here who would also know. Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDSP Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 I was in contact with the Lt-Col in charge of physician recruiting and he provided me with a good run down of the pros and cons of military medicine. I wouldn't mind chatting with a military doc who is not directly responsible for recruiting. As for the 3 or 4 years of funding, I heard rumors from military personnel that the military was considering increasing the MOTP to cover 4-year programs, but that the final decision was dependent upon federal budgeting and the treasury board. I do not know if the issue was yet decided. Anyone else hear this rumor? PD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QM6 Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Hey PD, The recruiting guy I talked to and one of the current MOTP students mentioned plans to make it more financially appealing were in the works depending on the mood of the Treasury Board, but nothing specific about extending funding for 4 years of med school. If that's the case, I wonder if they'd give retroactive $ for past years already done? I'm guessing probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dannyboy Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 PDSP I understand the family/friends situation but certainly not your financial situation! When I announced that I was thinking of joining the military I lost many, many friends. A lifetime of peace and human rights activism and people for some reason think I will turn into a war monger. It only really bothered me that people were so closed minded. I've never been a very judgemental person and I tend to support my friends decisions so it stung a bit. Oh well, less Christmas cards to send out. The person I was in contact with told me to give him a ring if I get an interview and he would start the process--I don't know much more than that right now and I don't know what "start the process" involves. Someone asked about Calgary--I only applied to Mac this year. I am just finishing off my grad degree and I wouldn't mind taking a year or two off so I reasoned: apply to Mac, my first choice, and if I don't get an interview/don't get in--no big loss, I get to take a much needed/deserved break! Back to my essay..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDSP Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 QM6, From my discussions with the military reps, the new funding program would not be retroactive. Instead, they may offer a incrementally increasing signing bonus as you proceed closer to graduation. That is, join at the end of 2nd year (of a 4-year program) and get $0 signing bonus. Join after 3rd year and get $20K, 4th year get $40K, and so on. In each of these cases you would still have four years of mandatory service. Another idea: given that the military will currently fund 57 months of training, I wonder if they would allow an individual to do a FP residency with an extra Emerg year (3 years of residency total) if they apply with only two years remaining in their undergrad MD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDSP Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Dannyboy, That is truly unfortunate about the attitude exhibited by your friends. I would like to think that friends would be more understanding than that. I really don't see an "unarmed" military physician as being a war-Moggler. Someone has to take care of the injured, regardless of the injured person's beliefs, convictions, race, or "occupation". I believe that is part of the Hippocratic oath. To answer your question about my location, I too am in Toronto. I did an undergrad in engineering at U of T and am now working in Mississauga. I'm one of those "older" applicants (but not that old) PD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dannyboy Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 PD: I thought the same thing about the armed aspect of being a military dr. Military people I've spoken to laughed at the suggestion that I would even see combat---apparently it is highly unlikely they would send a female dr directly into a combat situation. But, I would enlist thinking that was a possibility. Yes, I could get hurt but I could also get hurt crossing the street (and have!). I actually got hurt this morning crossing my livingroom. No, I can't see myself shooting anyone either--that would be a decidedly an anti-hippocratic action. Regarding you being ancient: the military, I've been told, prefers more mature drs. I was approached by a couple of military drs a few years ago after they gave a presentation on the work they did in Bosnia and in Africa. In a room of a hundred people, I was the only one who was interested in what they had to say--so bizarre. Literally no one other than myself asked questions. Worked for me though. Side topic: there is, if you are interested, I conference being held this Sat. March 1st at the Monk Center at U of T on the health needs/status of women in developing countries. I can send you a program if you or anyone else is interested. Best part: pay what you can. YES!!!! Engineering you say--interesting. I suppose that means GPA is not an issue. How did you like U of T? I should mention that I think it blows goats but I've heard the undergrad programs aren't too bad. Back to my dreaded essay. Stop this madness...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDSP Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Dannyboy, Thanks for the invite to the conference on the health needs/status of women in developing nations. Unfortunately, I have a flight test scheduled for this coming weekend, so my time is a little tight. I'm trying to finish my commercial pilot's licence before medical school as I imagine my spare time will soon be very restricted. I won't be able to attend. I do, however, hope that the conference goes well! Are you an organizer for the gathering? Thanks, PD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dannyboy Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 PD: Regarding being a conference organizer: no I am waayyyyy smarter than that. I am a cheerleader which essentially involves me advocating and informally promoting the conference and for this, I am free of obligations and I get a free lunch (everyone gets that). A couple of my profs are presenting as are a couple of people whose work I think is fab. I think that the promoters are employing a human rights-based approach to addressing the health needs of women in developing countries (a term I usually never use). That interests some people but bores others. So you are learning to fly a plane...wow. I can't even navigate a shopping cart, try as I may. What schools did you apply to? I think it's official: this essay will be the death of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDSP Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Unofficial information from a military representative regarding the new MOTP: 6 years (4 years undergrad plus 2 years residency) Enrollment bonus (maybe) 4 years of mandatory service Must do family medicine as residency Given the serious shortage of medical officers, the military is confident that the new program will be approved by the Treasury Board. The only question is "when?". The feeling is that they'll receive news sometime in the next 2-3 months. That puts the date around the same time that those of us in Ontario will hear back regarding acceptances. Good timing! If the program is approved, then an individual accepted to a 4-year medical school for the fall could begin the recruiting process in June. There is also talk of having a separate Basic Officer Training program for the medical officers so as to reduce the chance of injury during training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDSP Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Dannyboy: I've been at the flying thing for 5 years (and at the shopping cart thing for more than 20 years!). I'm hoping to soon be proficient at at least one of them! I've applied to all five schools in Ontario, but nothing outside of the province. So far, I've heard positive responses from Ottawa and Queens, but nothing from the remaining schools. What about you? Good luck (with med apps and this essay you keep mentioning...) PD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dannyboy Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 PD: I only applied to Mac this year. It is so far out in the running for my number one choice that I decided to do the dumb thing and only apply there. I want to take a year of two off anyways (give my overworked brain a rest) so it is no great loss if I don't get an interview. There are a number of articles I've been meaning to get into publishable state so a year or so off would give me a chance to do that. I think my chances of getting in are excellent if I do get an interview but......time will tell. My background, age and experience lend themselves well to med school-type interviews (I am the ethics/health questions crazy-scenarios queen). Regardless of whether or not I get an interview, I can most likely assist you (AND ANYONE ELSE IN THE GREATER TO REGION) with practicing for interviews. Just let me know and please give me as much notice as possible since my schedule is quite hectic. Thanks for the updated MOTP info. I am really hoping they remove the swimming component of the fitness test--I have an allergy to chlorine. I also have an allergy to dairy so I figure if I ever get into enemy hands there won't be any chances of me giving up top secrets (no chance of me remembering them) but if they decide to torture me by putting me in a hot tub and force feed me a banana split then I will be TOAST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QM6 Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Hey PD, Interesting info... there's actually a recruiter coming by to talk to our class this Thursday so I'll have to ask about the changes. BTW, anyone have any idea how many people sign up under the MOTP/year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hammer Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Hi QM6, According to the CaRMS website, there were 7 "military sponsored" residents in 2002...so I guess that's your answer. www.carms.ca/stats/stats_index.htm But, there were also 7 in 2001, so that either means that there are only 7 MOTP spots, or that there just happened to be 7 people who signed up for those two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDSP Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Dannyboy: Interesting combination of allergies: chlorine and dairy! With regards to getting together to practice for the interviews, your offer to join-in, regardless of interview status, is very much welcome. So far, I've only met once with a group to discuss interview questions. I'll let you know when we are meeting again. PD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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