Guest Dannyboy Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Hey QM6: It was called to my attention that I mixed you and PDSD up when I responded to your questions (regarding whether I applied to Mac or/and Calgary) and made reference to your financial situation not being a factor. Opps!! Didn't mean to shove you aside. I think that I focused on PDSD cuz I think this schoolin' stuff has given me PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). His moniker was just closer to my heart, I suppose. Sorry about the non-intentional snub. Take it easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dannyboy Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 I mean to write "PDSP". I am insulting people left right and centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QM6 Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Hammer, saw that info too... but that would mean that those 7 started med school back in 97 or 98 - just wondering how the numbers have been lately. I'd actually be surprised if the MOTP spots are limited to only 7 given how much effort the military seems to be putting on this. (Plus I'm hoping not to have to jump through too many more hoops... med admissions and CaRMS are more than enough for me.) Dannyboy, no worries, kinda figured it out by your answer. =) Even though family/friends I've talked to about it give at least a lukewarm "That's great", I guess for safety and (uninformed) political issues most would rather see me being a "normal" doctor. Hopefully if/when I go through with it and I'm actually working they might things differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDSP Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Dannyboy: No worries. Glad to know that "PTSD" (i.e. PDSP) is close to your heart! With regards to the number of MOTP positions, I believe the military will take as many as they can get given their current shortage. At least, that is the impression I received from the recruiter. As one of my friends in MOTP said, "If you are in med school and you have a pulse, welcome aboard." I think getting into med school is the hard part. Getting into the military after all the hoops for med school should be no problem, baring any major medical condition. PD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dannyboy Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 PD: so you think getting into med school is harder than getting into MOTP? Someone obviously has never met me. Getting into med school--whether people like to admit it or not--requires a HUGE dose of luck. Now, my successfully navigating an obstacle course--that would require a miracle.....glad to hear about the pulse requirement--I've totally nailed that hoop. You've already been to a mock interview session? Did you apply last year or are you just scary organized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDSP Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 Dannyboy: By your two options, I am "just scary organized". Some friends have interviews tomorrow, so we were helping them get ready. Luckily, I still have nearly a month till my first interview. PD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dannyboy Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 regardless of your friends' impending interviews you are so obviously scary organized. I've seen some of your posts---good lordy gordy you have done your research. Yeah, this med school stuff is obviously a very serious issue with you; you are a bit of a sure-thing to get in. Well, that is, of course, if you aren't a complete nut job in person. The bigger question: are you able/willing to move out of T.O. (if you answer 'no' than my nut job inquiry will be answered)? What is your preferred school and what are your current thoughts about MOTP--why are you interested in the program? Good luck with your flight test tomarrow. All the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDSP Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 Dannyboy: Yes, I am taking these medical school applications seriously. I wouldn't be considering a career change unless I really knew what I was getting myself into. As well, I like to know the benefits and drawbacks of each option before I commit to something. So, that is why I've been doing the research and asking the questions. "you are a bit of a sure-thing to get in. " - From what I understand, there are many great applicants, even more this year than years gone by, and to some degree there is an element of luck in this process. I don't believe anyone should be saying that they are a "sure thing". I've heard stories of people applying to all 5 Ontario schools, having 5 interviews, and only making it to the wait lists!! I'd like to hope it was because their interpersonal skills were drastically lacking or that they were too strongly opinionated in one direction. I've applied to all 5 schools in Ontario and would be willing to go wherever I get in. Toronto and McMaster are my first two choices, but after that I have not decided. I'm going to wait for the offers (fingers crossed) before I do (or have to) make that decision. I believe the MOTP is great program for the right candidate. As previous discussions have highlighted, a decision to join the military should be based upon your desire to work in the military, to accept a military lifestyle, and a willingness to go wherever the job takes you. This is true regardless of military occupation or pay incentives. In the case of many of the older medical school applicants, they have decided to apply because they aren't happy or satisfied in their current career. It makes no sense for any one of them to consider the military if they don't think that they'll be really happy with its lifestyle. Otherwise, why give-up 5-10 years of quality earnings at their current occupation to join another organizations with which they won't find fulfillment or happiness? In terms of pros, the MOTP program nicely covers the short-term losses experienced with becoming doctor. In the military, you'll have the benefit of being able to spend ample time with each patient as there isn't billing pressure to put through the volume. On deployment, you might be able to help out those in countries that have been ravaged by war. In this case, you are providing medical care to those who really need it. I have to imagine that this would be very rewarding. The military also provides opportunities to upgrade your skills as a flight surgeon or dive doctor. Furthermore, working hours as an MO are for the most part like any other government job, 40 hours a week! This is 20 hours less than the Ontario physician average. As well, I believe you receive 3 weeks of paid vacation on top of the Statutory holidays. As a GP, 3 weeks of vacation would probably cost you $10K in lost earnings as the practice overhead doesn't stop costing you while you are away! This is a big disincentive for many civilian GPs to take a holiday. On the other side of the coin, you are in the military and must conform to their rules and regulations. In exchange for the financial security, you have traded-in some of your flexibility and freedoms. You could be put in harms way on a foreign deployment. You could be exposed to chemical, biological, or nuclear contaminants. You could be involved in a transportation mishap. Many things could be, but won't necessarily be. Life is just a little riskier than setting-up shop in let's say, Wiarton, ON. From a medical student perspective, the idea of being able to switch your residency choice is non-existent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDSP Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 (I got cut off! The nerve.) ... You will be a GP, and a GP without the extra emerg year. For myself, I am not yet decided if this program is for me. I'll wait for the letters. Good luck with the introspection on this subject. PD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dannyboy Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 PDSD Thank you for that frank and, as always, articulate and informative response. I should elaborate on one thing: when I write "sure thing" I mean med-school sure thing which equates to your many attributes and the work that you have so far invested (plus you applying to five and your willingness to move anywhere in Ontario) into this life adventure hopefully balancing the scales of luck that are involved in getting into med school. From what I have been told--and I have recently decided that I know too many people involved in the process (the truth is truly disheartening)--the only 'sure thing' is a very wealthy and/or influential alumni's' offspring applying to med school. C'est la vie. The MOTP is a significant decision--one that I absolutely agonized over this past year. And that was before applying! Yeah, I tend to be over-organized and to research/think about things too much (according to others but not me--hello! it's my life on the line). The specifics of becoming a dr were not as relevant to me--this is why I find your thought process so interesting. Don't get me wrong, I know the basics very well. However, I was concerned about the broader aspects of being a dr, mostly how about the roles they play in our society and globally. I've spent the last 4 years researching the various apsects involved in the sociology of medicine. I was comfortable with the commitment aspect of being a physician and have been since I was 14. But, I wrestled with the responsibility, prestige and power that they wield--for that, even at 14, I knew I had a lot of maturing, self-reflection and evaluation to do before I personally was ready to pursue medicine. I've been fortunate, I suppose, that I've been told I would make a great physician for the past 20 years but the very attributes that others see in me that would cause them to make such statements are the same as the ones that make me hesitant to "take the plunge". Funny how that is. I sometimes think it isn't such a bad thing to just jump into the whole game at a young age when things seem more straight forward. I seem sort of "whatever" about the whole process simply because I've only applied to Mac and I am the least lucky person I know (this evaluation is shared among my friends). The odds of me "winning the lottery" are slim. That is okay. I've learned a lot about the process over these past months and even more about myself. I purposefully chose an academic path that will allow me to pursue many careers so medicine is but one option--it's my preferred option but... I didn't get the "emerg" thing?? From what I've been told (by various med schools), if you decided to specialize then you get one year taken off of what ever time allotment is involved with your specialty residence (e.g. say psychiatry has a 5 yr residency--you would be doing 4). As far as rules go, that is the very thing that every dr I've spoke to (military or not) have been very vocal about: rules apply everywhere to everyone in every situation. They feel the same way about commitment--you sign contracts, you have significant obligations, commitments if you are civilian or military. That is the nature of the beast. This you know but sometimes people think the big drawback with MOTP is that you will be rule-bound and...welcome to the real world of being a dr. Is there any activity or profession that isn't rule bound? I've even had people who said that military drs had far more autonomy than most civilian drs. The financial benefits are the trickiest to figure out for me; ie, it's not just the salary that you have to figure out. If you take loans out then once you are in residency, you will be paying principle (is that the right word) on those loans. AND you apparently have to pay tuition fees on top of this (can anyone out there confirm this for me??). So, the 40-50 000 salary you get is not that much; it's a pittance, really. Yeah, when you mention the civilian dr situation--with having to factor in overhead--you are right on. Quite a number of my friends are newbie drs and they are BROKE and struggling. The overhead kills them; you have to pay a fee in most walk in clinics (one friend has to pay HALF of her income). Argggggggggh. Anywaaaz, again: good luck today!! Incredibly good luck with the letters this week. My fingers are soooooo crossed for you (and everyone else!). Off to the conference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MUNMED2006 Posted March 3, 2003 Report Share Posted March 3, 2003 I've been researching MOTP extensively and have not yet come to a decision on whether or not I'm going to accept a position if I get accepted. PSPD, I just wanted to give you some information that I have found while researching MOTP. You said that members get three weeks paid vacation per year, but you get five weeks vacation per year. I'm not sure if it's all payed, but like you said, it's a huge incentive for family docs that have a hard time taking a week's vacation in one year. Dannyboy, as far as I know, residents don't have to pay tuition. However, most financial institutions require that you start paying back the principal on your loans, on top of the interest that you are required to pay all along. With government loans, you also have to start paying back the principal and interest after you graduate. If you're in the CF, you don't have to worry about it. You make a bit more than regular residents do, but you don't have to pay back enormous loans. Quite an incentive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDSP Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 Dannyboy: Hearing your concerns about the medical profession, and in particular the idea of YOU being a doctor, I wholeheartedly agree with your notion that the choice to become a physician is not to be taken lightly. Trying to balance the role the physician plays in society with the personal benefits from being that player is a complicated issue. Not having a sociology/psychology background, my approach to career choice is relatively simple - do what makes you happy. We all prescribe to a certain set of morals, beliefs, and convictions. We most definitely would not be happy with ourselves if our actions contradicted these standards. So, if doing something brings us joy, contentment, and satisfaction, than it must meet with our higher moral standards. If we are doctors, we enjoy our work, and we feel that we are contributing in a meaningful way to the benefit and advancement of our society, then we have chosen correctly. With regards to the "Emerg thing", there are primarily three ways to become trained in emergency work. First, you can match to a 5-year emerg residency right out of med school. Second, you can choose to do a family practice residency (2-years) with a third-year option in emergency medicine. Finally, after becoming a family practitioner, you can try and go back for another residency in emergency medicine. This could be either the 1-year program or the 4-year program (5 years minus 1 year of experience from the FP residency). In my previous post, I was referring to the possibility of the doing the FP residency with the third-year option. The military will not allow this. If I were in the military, I must do a 2-year FP residency, practice for 4 years, then go back an do the 4-year emerg residency. After the second residency, I'll owe the military another 5 years of service. And, as for the military rules, I think I meant more of the military "lifestyle". I have concerns about the locations of military bases in Canada and the opportunities in these locations for my prospective spouse to find work in her field of study. Furthermore, I am not sure if I would want my kids growing-up at the location to which I am posted. Anyway, just some more thoughts. Good luck on the Mac application. I imagine we'll hear something this week!! :rollin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dannyboy Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 You are such a thinker, aren't you? The family issues, for sure, I can relate to. I should note that you might want to talk to some military families--this is what essentially made me take the path to military never-never land. The opportunities that are offered for the kids are impressive (i.e. free or subsidized lessions, social events, etc). I can't comment on your fiancee's job prospects other than you are given priority for location according to important family considerations. And, you are usually only posted once in your term of duty. However, from my understanding, family considerations are the #1 reason people eventually opt out of the military. One guy I spoke to said he left cuz he wanted to meet his future wife and was having trouble meeting women. Well, naturally I inappropriately commented: good lord!! your a dr, you make great dough, you wear a snazzy uniform and you still can't get a chick? The military lifestyle is the least of your issues....and you know what? That for some reason did not go over well. Go figure. Really, though... "So, if doing something brings us joy, contentment, and satisfaction, than it must meet with our higher moral standards" I loved this line since it pretty well highlights how having a law background *twists* your perception--I thought, upon reading it, actually those things are precisely what get people into legal trouble! But, alas, you are normal and I am not. Where are those damn letters that Mac keep promising us......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marbledust Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 The military does in fact allow the three year CCFP (EM) program - the University of Alberta regularly takes in and trains third year military residents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDSP Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 Dannyboy: The opportunities that are offered for the kids are impressive (i.e. free or subsidized lessions, social events, etc). I have to laugh at the miss-type on lessons! I work for a biomedical company that specializes in creating radiofrequency les(s)ions!! These lesions are small areas of necrosed tissue which were destroyed to either alleviate pain or destroy cancerous tissue. Yep, it is good to know that the government will subsidize that procedure for my kids!! "So, if doing something brings us joy, contentment, and satisfaction, than it must meet with our higher moral standards" With your reference to this line getting individuals in trouble with the law, I must point out that I made no inference that by meeting one's moral standards it keeps one within the bounds of the law. I figure if one finds purpose in performing an act forbidden by the law, then it must conform with one's morals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDSP Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 ( I got cut-off again!!) ... That is, morals that are drastically different then those of the society which enacted the law that was broken. Food for thought. Mac, where are those darn letters? Hurry, hurry, hurry.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dannyboy Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 Didn't you know that *anyone* who makes fun of me is cut off from this forum? I am QUEENIE so don't be a MEANIE. I sent that typo to a friend of mine who actually records my many mistakes--why is it that my mistakes are always so idiotic? Why can't I just chronically mispell "through" or "their"--opps, I do that too. From-form is the worst. I'll get the last laugh--I will one day publish my mistakes; it will for sure make me a fortune and I will be sipping cocktails on my privately owned beach while you are stuck in this bourgeois ice-box called T.O. Yes, I too am glad that the government will pay for my son's lessions to be taken care of. Whew! Strike that one off the list o' worry. Thanks for the clarification of the moral issue---I was trying to demonstrate how twisted my perception is now that I am so darned learned. How dare you react with reason and rationality! This might not be appropriate to "leak out" but my last email was actually a new Mac appl test. It was designed to test your ability to handle a difficult situation and to effectively problem-solve--ie. should I inform this person that she is an idiot. If this is evaluated to be the correct response to the problem at hand, then how is this situation best approached. You were supposed to handle the situation with tact, empathy and with effective, constructive, positive, intervention. My evaluation of your performance of this exercise: PDSD you blow goats. BUT you are an excellent proof-reader. There is hope for you yet. My evaluation of my performance: I rock. I am perfect; my only imperfection is my perfection. And to think that I would be surprised if I get thinveloped.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDSP Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 Dannyboy: Thanks for the clarification of the moral issue---I was trying to demonstrate how twisted my perception is now that I am so darned learned. How dare you react with reason and rationality! But, I thought someone as learned as yourself, as knowledgeable in the art of law as yourself, and as concentrated in the pursuit of knowledge as yourself, would understand and sympathize with an appeal to logic. Is it not reasonable to assume that you might try to logically alter MY reality so as to lead ME to conclude that any action in the name of happiness leads to the commitment of a crime? But alas, you digress and revert to *NEVER NEVER LAND*. That is, the world where we all think that we are perfect? I guess the old parable, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" also applies to "perfection". Our imperfection is simply measured in how inappropriately we deem ourselves to be perfect. (Aren't I perfect?) ok, ok... nuf is nuf. Tell you what, I know this great procedure that involves lesioning the part of the brain responsible for both logic and perfection!! No one could refuse us acceptance to medical school after this! Ready to sign up? You were supposed to handle the situation with tact, empathy and with effective, constructive, positive, intervention. Hey, I didn't throw the computer around. I was nice and polite in my response. And, I tried to be positive. That has to count for something ... Oh well, back to work. BTW, how was the conference on the weekend? In case you are interested, I passed my Commercial Flight Test. (Backup plan is in place.) See ya, Capt. PD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dannyboy Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 BTW: conference was ODD. Once again: can someone please explain to me how/why those monks have so much money?? If you are confused by that comment I suggest you visit 1 Devonshire Drive (the Monk Centre at U of T). Flowers and a fine art print in the washrooms...do I need to say more? There's some decadence going down in monkland. It's really everything an Ivy-league school building should be, I suppose. Oh, the conference-knowledge part...it was okay. I heard talks about how rape is used as a weapon of war; the colonialization history of Aboriginals and the lingering effects on their health; female genital mutilation and its effect on birthing practices (that one came with a video...very informative but obviously a wee disturbing); "garbage" dump communities in Vietnam; and reproductive rights issues in developing nations. Yeah, a draining day. CONGRADULATIONS on you flight test. That was an intentional spelling mistake so don't go getting excited. You let me down by not picking up on my misspelling of misspelling on the previous post--on your toes civilian!!!!! Regarding using logic: hello! Educational background as indicated is law. This means that I can and do think logically--but I will have to bill you in 15 minute increments for my efforts. Silly pilot. So, apparently Weds might be the big day. I will post this here since I wouldn't want to cause a disturbance: I am not in the least bit excited/worried. Has my easy-going nature really gotten the best of me? Is this a sign that I will definitely get thinveloped? Getting rejected does not, in the least bit, upset me--is this because I am sooooo used to being rejected? Oh yeah, that could be it.... Actually, an interview letter will complicate my life even more than it already is (do I join the MOTP right away; do I do basic training this summer; do I move back to my homeland...you have no idea how crazy things could get). Hopefully someone will be at home to get your mail for you--I wouldn't want you to have to work all day wondering if za letter arrived. BEST of luck tomarrow. P.S., PDSP: I forgive you for your past cruelty towards me. The charge for my logic: 15 mins which equates to $50..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest walton1 Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Just noticed this thread now.... There seems to be a lot of discussion about the military plan spread out over this forum, the premed forum, and the residency forum. Perhaps it's time for a Military Medicine forum? wally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.