Why should interviews be worth more than academics?

[Guest linghy]

when it comes to undergrad, the ones with the top marks get the better jobs. But when you're in a health profession, like say Dentistry. How much you make is dependent on how many patients you have..how you get patients is NOT taught in a classroom. Not to mention, it is also NOT correlated that marks are an accurate measure of how smart you are, since those already accepted into a doctoral program are very smart already. The most academically gifted might necessarily be the smartest but the one who can memorize the most answers lol.

 

From your experience do you think this apply to medicine as well?

[Guest Yangzie]

the most successful people are those who can combine book smarts and ppl smarts.

 

i still think ppl who have book smarts, whether its memory bank or logical reasoning, combined with a GOOD social sense will be more 'successful' (used in the general sense) than those who are say...moderately intelligent and superb abilities.

 

even in the business world, the TOP of the TOP are the smartest ppl who HAVE book smarts AND social skills.

 

someone who is average in intelligence...it really shows...and ppl will lose confidence in you. people aren't stupid. the smartest do win the biggest eventually, and not the best networker. although i do agree that the ones who have the networks may get a quicker start.

[Guest canmic]

Of course every profession is going to have a certain number of 'bad apples', no matter how carefully the entrants into the profession are examined/tested/etc...

 

The question is, do some schools have a much higher number of their graduates who wind up going to jail, failing their exams, or having their license taken away or suspended than the average?

 

The answer is 'yes' and THAT is what makes it interesting.

[Guest muchdutch]

hmm. Not that I'm doubting that this is true, I'm just wondering if you have anything concrete to base this on? And the juicier question would be - what schools and where did you get this info??!!

 

very interesting....

[Guest canmic]

The royal college posts stats, as do all the provincial colleges and they all have websites.

 

There have also been some articles over the years in various provincial association journals and the CMAJ.

 

Of course, one could argue that certain med schools do a better job of teaching their graduates not to get caught but even I am not THAT cynical...

[Guest coastalslacker]

even I am not THAT cynical...

 

No, I think are that cynical. And yes, I get your sarcasm, but it's like a double negative.

 

You're bitter too. And you have an agenda.

 

Cheers.

[Guest TheChosenOneDDS]

yangzie, the son of an owner of a company who is decently smart and went to the best schools due to who he is, will be better off than a smart individual who worked his way b/c he might be working for that rich boy.

 

Perfect example, George W. Bush, leader of the Free world.

 

Bill Gates is a smart guy, but he never finished school.

 

You think Trump has straight A?

 

Now if someone who is smart applies themselves in books they might do well. Anyone with a doctor degree can't be that dumb can they? Therefore, it is VERY possible that the person with the lowest grade in a professional school can become the most successful because they have already proven they can be very book smart. Try getting in with a B average in canada.

 

For specialties however, networking is very important.

I probably got among the top grades, but I never had the best grades. I was may be top 10, never top 2.

 

 

Linger

As for medicine, i dunno I get my MD in 6 years. I'll tell u what I find in the hospitals of the US when i'm doing my residency in oral surg next year in Texas.

[Guest canmic]

For the record:

 

1) no, I actually am NOT so cynical that I think any Canadian medical schools are specifically teaching their students how to not get caught when they do things they shouldn't do.

 

2) I'm not bitter about anything as I have nothing to be bitter about.

 

3) I'm not quite sure what 'agenda' you think I have. I just say what I think and back it up with the basis for my opinions.

[Guest waitingINwonder]

ssc427 - I have to say that I completely disagree with your statement that the:

 

"MMI has the potential of admitting the scariest applicants of all because the 8 minute stations test your acting skills and do not allow the interviewers to really dig into your head and see if you’re full of BS"

 

There is the most likelihood for acting performances in traditional interviews where the types of questions that are asked are quite predictable. Consequently, you have many applicants who make sure they know exactly how to answer these questions ahead of time and come off sounding mature and thoughtful with good communication skills when actually, they've just REHEARSED - a necessity in acting performances.

 

Since rehearsal is not as possible with the MMI, it therefore is not a test of people's acting skills but a great way to force people to think on their feet and weed out the fakes. I don't at all see how you could come up with the opposite conclusion about the mentioned interview methods.

[Guest Yangzie]

ChosenOne: your two example prove your own statements wrong. bill gates is richer than trump (far richer...gates has 45bill and trump clocks in about 2? it's on forbes magazine). bill gates is smarter than trump (i doubt anyone will argue this). you're right, bill gates didn't finish school BUT thats cuz he had a contract so he knew what he was gettin himself into.

 

now bill gates didn't know any big shots---he was just brilliant and had decent social skills. trump (whose background i'm not so sure of) might have had networking to help himself along the way and he's 'decently' smart so he does well for himself...but he does not rival --not even close--warren buffett and bill gates wealth or success.

 

now you may argue that look at Jobs...he's one hell of a guy right? why isn't he at the top? watch him. Dell thought apple was nonthreatening...but apple now dominates the mp3 industry and is making waves in the laptop industry...Jobs got scrweed so many times...yet he is still here...and he is well on his way to becoming great.

 

the way i see it, when smart ppl choose to chase wealth they will do better than those who are less smart but with more network skills. i also think that most smart ppl don't bother with it because they're too passionate about their careers and they enjoy it--capitalizing on it isn't their priority although i'm sure its on their agenda. and i argue that this is why u probably see so many rich ppl who aren't the "smartest"--generally defined. but once you take a look at the top of the crop, it's dominated by the smartest ppl who are also chasing wealth.

 

and just to add marks aren't always an indication of intelligence...to be honest it's more an indication of hardwork and dedication than anything really once you reach the above 85.

 

and i really don't see how bush is that well off...he makes no real decisions, he really has no real power...all the brains and power lies in his advisors. hell, Rice has more power than Bush.

 

and your hypthetical example...that's just that...a hypothetical example that may or may not be true depending on how they each live their lives--the statement precludes the possibility of disconfirming evidence.

 

as you can see i have finished exams and have so much @#%$ time to waste waitin on letters...lol

[Guest TheChosenOneDDS]

Yangzie let me remind you of your original argument:

 

"nope. the bottom spends their time making networks and connections and such

 

realistically, it's the top book smart ppl who also has the ppl skills that ultimately make the most money.

 

the smarter you are, the more money you will make IF you are willing to just dedicate urself to making money."

 

My rebuttal to your original argument:

"yangzie there are book smarts and business smarts. They might not be correlated.

 

when it comes to undergrad, the ones with the top marks get the better jobs. But when you're in a health profession, like say Dentistry. How much you make is dependent on how many patients you have..how you get patients is NOT taught in a classroom. Not to mention, it is also NOT correlated that marks are an accurate measure of how smart you are, since those already accepted into a doctoral program are very smart already. The most academically gifted might necessarily be the smartest but the one who can memorize the most answers lol."

---------------------------

 

So why are you arguing against me again? I think i made it pretty clear there.

 

--------------------------------------

But then you say

"the most successful people are those who can combine book smarts and ppl smarts.

 

i still think ppl who have book smarts, whether its memory bank or logical reasoning, combined with a GOOD social sense will be more 'successful' (used in the general sense) than those who are say...moderately intelligent and superb abilities.

 

even in the business world, the TOP of the TOP are the smartest ppl who HAVE book smarts AND social skills.

 

someone who is average in intelligence...it really shows...and ppl will lose confidence in you. people aren't stupid...

 

then i say

 

-------------------------------------------

yangzie, the son of an owner of a company who is decently smart and went to the best schools due to who he is, will be better off than a smart individual who worked his way b/c he might be working for that rich boy.

 

Perfect example, George W. Bush, leader of the Free world.

 

Bill Gates is a smart guy, but he never finished school.

 

You think Trump has straight A?

------------------------------------

 

I'm scratching my head as you just confirmed what I had said.

 

 

ok i'm not gonna even quote your last argument coz that didn't add any new information except that you continue to agree with me, except for the networking bit.

 

Now if someone who is smart applies themselves in books they might do well. Anyone with a doctor degree can't be that dumb can they? Therefore, it is VERY possible that the person with the lowest grade in a professional school can become the most successful because they have already proven they can be very book smart. Try getting in with a B average in canada.

 

For specialties however, networking is very important.

I probably got among the top grades, but I never had the best grades. I was may be top 10, never top 2.

smartest do win the biggest eventually, and not the best networker. although i do agree that the ones who have the networks may get a quicker start"

 

Then i said that Bill Gates was a smart guy, whether or not he was book smart is an INDEPENDENT ISSUE. YOU SAID SO YOURSELF THAT HE WAS SMART AND KNEW WHAT HE WAS GETTING INTO.........

 

So I dunno man what are you arguing against that I haven't agreed with or said already?

 

 

 

"

[Guest Yangzie]

perhaps the misunderstanding lies in the definition of book smartness that i was thinking of.

 

my definition of booksmart is more than just grades--it also includes fluid intelligence (logic, analytical skills etc, which i mentioned in my first post on this thread)...it also includes apptitude tests and IQ tests or watever standardized tests, which provide better reflections of 'booksmarts'. so when i say bill gates is a smarter guy, i mean that he has more booksmarts than trump in the sense that i would put my money on gates performing better on an IQ test than trump (or watever test you want to use to gauge booksmartness).

 

so my arguments still stand. ppl at the top are those with booksmarts (better thinkers), which is not gauged with marks...but with standardized tools of measurement, and adequate social/business skills. now, of course no iq test is a perfect reflection of smartness...but its the best we have right now so that's my definition as of right now of 'smartness'

 

also, to counter your dentistry example...if the example were instead an internist or diagnostician...who has mediocre social skills but knows how to think through problems and has a superior knowledge base...then i will bet money that he will be 'richer' than the smoothest dentist.

 

that's why i posted after your 2nd last post...ur examples didn't show anything...but rather confirmed MY statements.

 

the confusion was, you thought i was refering to booksmarts as merely grades, when i was actually referring to how smart a person is.

 

[Guest TheChosenOneDDS]

Ok, Yangzie you are the be all and end all even if you have to twist your words like that.

 

So what is your argument now? Booksmarts or IQ? lol stop changing ur arguments lol...now it is a combination of factors hahaha

 

 

 

just explain to my father and uncle that....lol

 

see what they say. my uncle makes more..a lot more, yet my dad has more booksmarts, credentials and a higher IQ.

 

my dad would be the internist in your example, and my uncle the smooth dentist.

 

 

May be in the future you shouldn't generalize that the top booksmart people will make more and the bottom only networks.

 

May be I shouldn't disagree with you and THank you, because

Let me ask you, are you a book smart guy?

 

Because I am, I'm gonna be getting a DDS so call me Doctor in a month or so, and I'll also have an MD, and be a surgeon. So i guess according to you, I'll be making more money (do not include my inheritance, investments, etc etc.) than everyone here, including you....how does that make everyone feel?

 

Remember it was Yangzie who said so. I disagree.

 

I do you one better : check this out

 

www.megafoundation.org/Ub.../2020.html

 

Chris Langhan IQ of 195, probably smarter than Gates or Trump..he's a part time bouncer living off 6000/ year

[Guest GundamDX]

Naaah, you are all wrong. God has plans for everybody, so it's IMPOSSIBLE to categorize and generalize people by their IQ, social skills, work ethic, whatever. An old Cantonese saying goes like this:

 

First (most important): your life (defined by the exact time and date you're born)

Second: your luck

Third: Fung Shui

Forth: Do good deeds (how much "goodness" you've accumulated in your life)

Fifth (least important): studying!

 

Make sense in a lot of ways to me :\ but then again what do I know I am not in yet:rollin

[Guest TheChosenOneDDS]

gundam, u actually make the most sense.

 

 

that explains a lot of things like George Bush

 

don't worry Gundam I'm not just in, I pretty much already am and I think your argument as jokingly as it seems, probably works better than Yangzie's.

 

I have many Chinese friends who believe in the same things...I have read up on such literature...they have some interesting theories about that but it sure explains a lot of phenomena that logic cannot.