scarface Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Scarface, you obviously have a less than stellar understanding of what morals are, given this post. On the one hand, you have an unrealistic scenario where you have to choose one life over several lives of loved ones. You aren't "forgetting" your morals by choosing one over the other, you are making an ethical decision by balancing the pros and cons. When a "friend" wants you to help them cheat before an exam, there is also no ethical dilemma because you aren't being a friend by helping them cheat. Well Leviathan, I actually took the time to reread your initial post, as I skimmed it over the first time, and I realized I made a mistake. I thought you meant the "friend asking you to cheat" was a real ethical scenario, and the "choosing between the life of a family member or a stranger" wasn't. So I thought to myself, "whoah, what's this dude/dudette smoking . . ." So I made that post to you about the movie Saw in jest. Hope you didn't take it too seriously or personally . . . I agree with you 100% that I have less than stellar understanding of morality. I'd be the first to tell you that I failed ethics 101. And I'm sure everyone on these forums would agree with you based on some of my previous posts. Thanks for stating the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviathan Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 This is serious. If I'm ever on an adcom and saw in an application or heard in an interview something like what you wrote, I wouldn't be able to make the red zeroes fast enough. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. As far as I'm concerned, this is not at all a question of whether or not to help the friend cheat, the only real issue here is how to avoid cheating in the most constructive way possible. I agree whole-heartedly. The point I was getting across is that this person isn't a friend if they make you uncomfortable to the point that you are shutting off your cell phone and MSN and socially isolating yourself for fear that you might anger them by not helping them cheat. <--- long sentence alert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayne67 Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 I don't think you should shut your cell phone off, or log off MSN. It's kind of obvious. Just tell your "friend" straight up what's on your mind and why you don't want to give him the test. Just try not to make it about how you don't want to see him be rewarded for slacking off. Try to keep the conversation at why you feel uncomfortable (i.e. academic dishonesty, integrity) helping him cheat. And if you want, you could give him some tips - i.e. which chapters are heavily emphasized, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayehs Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 No. And I challenge you to admit this in a medical school interview if you truly think it's "not a big deal." That's scary. Why don't you tell them you're going to ignore everything before an important medical exam and then ask your friend to give you the answers so that you don't have to learn the material? If you can't see the problem with that, I am very worried about your intentions to practice in a field where your lack of education WILL harm people. There's a HUGE difference between helping your fellow classmates understand and learn a subject before an exam, and giving them the answers so they can pass and fool everyone into thinking they have learned the material. Whoa whoa, who said anything of ME "ignoring everything before an important medical exam and then ask your friend to give you the answers so that you don't have to learn the material". Anyone who does this wouldn't make it to medical school anyways. And yes, I'd be quite concerned if my doctor made it into medical school cheating his way through. I guess I should've read OP's post more carefully instead of skimming. Like mac_attack explained to me previously, I was under the assumption that he just didn't want to help out his friend. I didn't know the extent this guy was bugging mac_attack. What i was trying get at was that I don't personally mind helping out my friends, even though I'm always the one helping others out. But I get upset when once in a while I'm stuck on an assignment question or something and need help but people aren't as helpful as I was for them ie. lazy to explain, etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarface Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Whoa whoa, who said anything of ME "ignoring everything before an important medical exam and then ask your friend to give you the answers so that you don't have to learn the material". Anyone who does this wouldn't make it to medical school anyways. And yes, I'd be quite concerned if my doctor made it into medical school cheating his way through. Yup, I like it how people have a tendency to put words in your mouth and act as if they have an uncanny ability to predict your every action based on one thing you said. I only wish I had that power. When I go see a physician, I'm only concerned that they produce results. I don't care if the doc has no history of academic dishonesty- a botched diagnosis is unacceptable. Besides, which doc in their right mind would proudly tell their patients they cheated their way into and through medicine? And even if they did, how can you be 100% sure they will be a crappy physician? From what I've heard, you learn your medicine during residency and most of undergrad and med is forgotten. Therefore, if you have a history of academic dishonesty, please get your act together by residency, and preferably by clerkship as you start treating real patients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviathan Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Yup, I like it how people have a tendency to put words in your mouth and act as if they have an uncanny ability to predict your every action based on one thing you said. I only wish I had that power. This is what s/he said, and I quote: "wow everyone is so moral and ethical here. I guess none of you guys asked your best friend for questions who happened to take the exam earlier than you did? I'm sure everyone has best friends here and you guys all helped each other and shared answers before." When I go see a physician, I'm only concerned that they produce results. I don't care if the doc has no history of academic dishonesty- a botched diagnosis is unacceptable. Besides, which doc in their right mind would proudly tell their patients they cheated their way into and through medicine? And even if they did, how can you be 100% sure they will be a crappy physician? From what I've heard, you learn your medicine during residency and most of undergrad and med is forgotten. Therefore, if you have a history of academic dishonesty, please get your act together by residency, and preferably by clerkship as you start treating real patients. It's hard to get rid of old habits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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