If you don't like to talk with people,medicine is likely the wrong field

[Lady]

Scarface,

 

First off, I am in utter shock that you have stated your true intentions ($$$) for wanting to pursue medicine. I know very few people who a) have monetary gain as their main motivation and have the balls to state it so explicitly, knowing that they will get slaughtered on this forum.

 

I think that you should seriously reconsider applying to medicine (even though it is only your plan because there are so many more facets to being a physician than simply being technically skilled. I think that a physician's first priority should always be the welfare of the patient and not personal gain. The job of the physician is to provide the best care for his/her patients and I feel that if monetary gain is the doctor's first priority, the patient's wellbeing can sometimes be compromised.

 

For example, it is well-known (or at least known to me) that obstetricians make a lot more money performing c-sections rather than vaginal deliveries because c-sections are faster (you don't have to wait through the entire labour process) and the obstetrician gets paid more for surgery (not to mention they can fit many more patients into their schedules = even more money). However, much of the current medical literature advises against c-sections when vaginal deliveries are possible because c-sections require a much longer healing time for the mother and are generally a more dangerous procedure (possibility of infection, etc....it is surgery after all). If an obstetrician's primary objective was to make a lot of money, he/she would probably (unethically) advise patients to get planned c-sections all the time, which is NOT necessarily what is best for the patient. This is simply an example of the many ethical decisions a doctor must face on a daily basis and I feel that those who put patient needs secondary to personal gain may be making the wrong decisions. Please, please, please don't apply to medicine! It sounds like you would be much better suited for investment banking, or maybe you could be a venture capitalist, or the CEO of some oil company.

 

-Lady

[thefrontrow]

CAs as a comparison (not to say its any easier or harder but definately less debt)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The results demonstrate that a career as a CA can be both varied and financially rewarding.

Members hold a wide variety of roles in both industry and professional services and their compensation levels demonstrate that they are highly valued by both their employers and clients.

• Average compensation is up 29% since 2002 from $127,083 to $164,396 and median compensation is up 12% from $98,000 to $110,000.

-Owners of CA firms average $203,942

in compensation while owners of non CA firms average $326,139. Non-owners average $149,048.

-The provinces with the highest compensation are Alberta ($166,373) and Ontario ($167,807)

 

Compensation by Age FOR CAs

Total compensation (includes owners and non-owners)

N Mean Median Percentile 25 Percentile 75

Under 35 $97,943 $78,000 $61,400 $104,000

35-44 $162,358 $117,500 $85,224 $172,000

45-54 $214,675 $145,000 $97,000 $228,000

55-64 $219,513 $144,000 $98,575 $230,000

65 and over $248,286 $131,250 $87,500 $240,000

 

My family doc makes 170k or so which includes all the expenses he has to pay.

In summary, you will make more money in professions other than medicine, if you are good enough to make to med school. And you will actually have the time to enjoy that money, lol. This is not to say that doctors don't make money, but if you won't enjoy what you do, why not go into something you will enjoy and be even more successful.

My 2 cents. Best of luck:)

[Vitum Medicinus]

Going into medicine for the money alone is a dumb idea.

 

The path is gruelling enough that you will regret it every step of the way, unless there is more in it for you than just money.

 

Read this blog post, then tell me seriously that you're willing to go through all that without a greater passion to get you through.

[dr nomis]

I did have a chance to observe an operation . . . Did the surgeon talk to the patient? No, which wasn't a surprise, given that the patient was under a general anesthetic. ... radiologists don't talk much to patients either. . .

 

Observing an operation is NOT equivalent to understanding what a surgeon's career entails. How do you think they know what's wrong with the patient, or how the patient is feeling after surgery? OR time can be less than half of a surgeon's work. The rest of the time is...suprise...going on rounds, talking to patients. And if the patient doesn't like the surgeon during pre-op, they can always pull consent, which means no $$ for you.

 

Just to perpetuate a rumour ~ I heard of a medical student who was socially inept that as he got close to graduating, his school told him, "We'll only give you your degree if you go into pathology" - one of the specialties that you don't talk to many people!

 

Then again, there's always MD/PhD...mostly academic, and a lot of them don't see patients for more than one afternoon per week, if at all.

[SarahZ]

Well even though I have stated elsewhere on these forums that I don't like volunteering and have no intentions of volunteering, I did have a chance to observe an operation . . . (no, I wasn't paid for time to observe an operation)

 

Did the surgeon talk to the patient? No, which wasn't a surprise, given that the patient was under a general anesthetic.

 

The surgeon was teaching the anesthetist how to swear in portugese. He even taught me some portugese profanity as well. So therefore, I stand corrected, the surgeon did do some talking during that operation, but it wasn't to the patient.

 

BTW, radiologists don't talk much to patients either. . .

 

just for the record, Surgeons certainly DO have to talk to patients both before and after surgeries. Surgeons should be good with people as they have to talk to their patients about the surgery at a time when patients are very afraid. Not to mention that if their patient died during the surgery they would be talking with the family.

[mac_attack]

Scarface:

 

Somehow, your charming personality leads me to think that you might need a plan C.

 

I would really love for you to just come out and post your real name on here. Don't worry I'm sure your comments will have no effect on your selection for dentistry/med school, should any adcoms stroll in here or something.

 

I would just really like to know who you are so that I never go to your office if you ever become a dentist or doc.

[scarface]

Wow . . . I didn't think that many people would be so upset . . . I've been doing some thinking . . . I'm still young and naive . . . so I was thinking meds . . . than found this forum . . . then thought dents . . . but now I realize that perhaps teaching is the way to go. Gee I can never seem to make up my mind. Meds is a lot of hard work, and so is dents. Teaching is also a lot of hard work as well in terms of prep time and evaluation of students, but two months off in the summer sounds like a well deserved deal!! Plus tuition is not as high as meds/dents, and the program is only one year. Considering that most of my employment experience involves working with at-risk youth (and fortunately I do present myself to them differently than I do on this forum), it only makes sense. Thank goodness for this forum . . . I have seen the light!!!

 

Mac_attack: I have sent you a PM with my legal name- feel free to forward it to all the med schools you can think of, because I won't be applying to them no more. So there's one less person competing for a spot you deserve. Hope you feel happy now.

[scarface]

CAs as a comparison (not to say its any easier or harder but definately less debt)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The results demonstrate that a career as a CA can be both varied and financially rewarding.

Members hold a wide variety of roles in both industry and professional services and their compensation levels demonstrate that they are highly valued by both their employers and clients.

• Average compensation is up 29% since 2002 from $127,083 to $164,396 and median compensation is up 12% from $98,000 to $110,000.

-Owners of CA firms average $203,942

in compensation while owners of non CA firms average $326,139. Non-owners average $149,048.

-The provinces with the highest compensation are Alberta ($166,373) and Ontario ($167,807)

 

Compensation by Age FOR CAs

Total compensation (includes owners and non-owners)

N Mean Median Percentile 25 Percentile 75

Under 35 $97,943 $78,000 $61,400 $104,000

35-44 $162,358 $117,500 $85,224 $172,000

45-54 $214,675 $145,000 $97,000 $228,000

55-64 $219,513 $144,000 $98,575 $230,000

65 and over $248,286 $131,250 $87,500 $240,000

 

My family doc makes 170k or so which includes all the expenses he has to pay.

In summary, you will make more money in professions other than medicine, if you are good enough to make to med school. And you will actually have the time to enjoy that money, lol. This is not to say that doctors don't make money, but if you won't enjoy what you do, why not go into something you will enjoy and be even more successful.

My 2 cents. Best of luck:)

 

There's one problem here . . . I suck at math.

[scarface]

Scarface,

 

First off, I am in utter shock that you have stated your true intentions ($$$) for wanting to pursue medicine. I know very few people who a) have monetary gain as their main motivation and have the balls to state it so explicitly, knowing that they will get slaughtered on this forum.

 

-Lady

 

I'm guessing that most of the people you associate with, Lady, are humanitarians, just like yourself. As the saying goes, birds of a feather flock together. And some people you meet simply might not be telling you their true intentions, because they feel that people like you won't understand them.

 

In regards to

This is the internet, a bit relaxed, as I can hide behind a cloak of annonymity. I like stirring up controversy and causing trouble, I'm that type of person, and given my childhood, I'm relatively immune to verbal abuse/criticism, so that's where the "balls" comes from. Besides, I figure, most people on this forum could care less about my opinions and will simply ignore someone who would be deemed as a "troll/ogre/the giant from jack in the beanstalk". Some people on the other hand, will waste energy and get emotional and try to give me a hard time, but in the end they are only giving themselves a hard time.

 

BTW, I really am pursuing teaching. Have been considering it for some time now. But since this is a meds/dents forum, I never brought it up. I am one of the many "young-uns" out there who "don't know what they want to do with their life". Hence, I come on to these forums. And I must tell you lady, most of the people on these forums have been a positive influence on me. More positive than the people I currently hang around with.

[scarface]

To all those who told me that surgery/radiology involves more patient/people contact than I think:

 

Thanks for your feedback. I'm young, naive, ignorant, and most of my knowledge or lack thereof comes from my premed friends (which may not necessarily be the truth, hence I come on to these forums). I don't have the life lessons of someone like ploughboy or TMax, so please cut me some slack.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of a trauma surgeon (see my post about considering paramedicine), ie. patient rushed into hospital, consent is assumed (I believe), hence no pre-op consultation, and afterwards, the patient is rushed home cuz the ER is clogged up as it is already. Or maybe there is a post-op consultation with a surgeon.

 

Many of the top dentists/chiros (who for lack of a better word, are "businessmen") and not only are they good at their craft, but they are excellent with their patients as they make their "customers feel like king" (as any good business person would do). So don't assume that someone who was in it for the $$$ automoatically has poor interpersonal skills. Also, I think social status/prestige is more of a motivator than $$$ for people applying to meds (especially given the hard training), I was simply stating my intentions. See my post in regards to Kirsteen's "careers and money" thread if you care for a little more personal background info.

[Darla]

Have you considered law too Scarface? You've definately got the arguments down-you can cut to the heart of it almost immediately. My friend is now a lawyer after doing a science degree-he's a patent lawyer. Your mom could have a sweet new car with that gig. I know, people to talk to, but since you're still shopping for a career...I know it's one that I think about every now and then.

 

(since it's impossible to tell on the net, this is NOT a sarcastic post)

[scarface]

Hey Darla, did consider law briefly, but never gave it a serious thought. I don't anybody who's pre-law and/or law school. I was under the assumption that most people who applied to law were commerce/business grads. I've never heard of a science major applying to law school.

 

I do know that Law school requires the LSAT. However, I'm not in really any mood to sacrifice a summer studying for any standardized test be it the MCAT/LSAT. I'd rather spend the time working and making $$$. I even had some doubts about meds before I found this forum (which would explain the sudden switch to dents based on comments I read from an old poster). Teaching seems like a good deal as there is no standardized test.

 

Anyways, thanks for the suggestion. I'll give it some more thought. But as silly as it may seem what I'd really like more than a high paying career is to fix my moral compass. I know the people I hang around with are deviant/ immoral and a bad influence on me. But what am I supposed to tell em, "I refuse to hang around you guys anymore because I've decided from now on I want to become a good person?" Even though I don't believe in God, I know there's a verse in the bible that says something like "bad company corrupts good character". I'm not trying to offer an excuse for my ideas/behavior on this forum, I'm just trying to offer an explanation.

[Kuantum]

I know people who applied out of science into law. After you write the MCAT, almost all other standardized tests just don't compare - including the LSAT. I don't want to offend anyone who has to write the GMAT, LSAT, DAT, GRE...or whatever else, but I have taken a look at all those standardized tests...never written one, but I have seen some practice material. I know practice material isn't always the same as the real thing, but they are all noticeably easier than the MCAT.

 

Anyways, scarface, I think you are making up excuses. I'm sure you had a tough upbrining, and you may be scarred by it. However, the fact that I think you have recognized this is a step further in moving in the right direction. You do have the option of getting new friends, sure its not easy, but people do it ALL THE TIME. Think of the transition between university and high school. I know they may be your friends and you see them as a support system, but if you are recognizing that your support system isn't doing you all that well, then I think you have stopped recognizing them a support system and it makes me wonder how you can still consider them as friends.

 

To me, you may still have some sort of daddy-left me complex, and I am not hating you for it. However, you have the chance right now to move past it, and move past your "not-so-good" friends and find other things that interest you and make you happy. Whether you feel the need to announce to the world that you are going into medicine just for the money is hard for me to believe because to get to a point where its all about the money, there is a lot more work involved. Consider the highest earning specialists...GI, Plastics, Neurosurgery, cardiology, and ortho spine. (others can add more if you need to). These are insanely competitive or grueling (ortho and neuro) specialties that just aren't a walk in the park. Going through all that so you could provide your mom with a better life just doesn't cut it.

 

I think you want to be a doctor because of what the profession stands for, you just can't seem to express that for some bizarre and maybe tragic reason. Whether I am completely wrong and money is in fact your motivating factor, I think you have gotten to a point where you understand what you really want and you can't seem to move past your "oh so sad" life to actually go for it.

[scarface]

As for you mac_attack, as the old klingon proverb goes "revenge is a dish best served cold" (for those of you who've seen the movie Kill Bill), so I was thinking of waiting a week to personally attack you in a public forum, but I've decided to serve the dish lukewarm, as I'm in the process of weaning myself from these forums as I've decided to become a teacher and/or possibly lawyer (thank you Darla!!).

 

I've read some of your posts, and like me you seem like somewhat of a s**tdisturber. That means you command about as much respect on these forums as I do, which is virtually none. That being said, your words hold very little weight. I may have become a ***ty physician if I did decide to choose that path, but I rejoice in the fact that I will never be as ***ty a physician/human being as you will be. I hope your sorry **s is rejected from every med school you apply to.

 

To all the people I've given a hard time to on these forums (Daryn, AMMd, Peachy, Leviathan, DrEvil, and I'm sure there's a lot more) and to all the people I've annoyed with my posts (which I believe is most of you), I am going to do something I rarely ever do, that is apologize. I am sorry for my past behaviors on this forum. Of course that apology excludes you mac_attack, in my eyes you are a worthless piece of ***t and I will never show any remorse for what I've said to you. (come on attack me back brother, I'm waiting for ya!!! ).

[mac_attack]

As for you mac_attack, as the old klingon proverb goes "revenge is a dish best served cold" (for those of you who've seen the movie Kill Bill), so I was thinking of waiting a week to personally attack you in a public forum, but I've decided to serve the dish lukewarm, as I'm in the process of weaning myself from these forums as I've decided to become a teacher and/or possibly lawyer (thank you Darla!!).

 

I've read some of your posts, and like me you seem like somewhat of a s**tdisturber. That means you command about as much respect on these forums as I do, which is virtually none. That being said, your words hold very little weight. I may have become a ***ty physician if I did decide to choose that path, but I rejoice in the fact that I will never be as ***ty a physician/human being as you will be. I hope your sorry **s is rejected from every med school you apply to.

 

To all the people I've given a hard time to on these forums (Daryn, AMMd, Peachy, Leviathan, DrEvil, and I'm sure there's a lot more) and to all the people I've annoyed with my posts (which I believe is most of you), I am going to do something I rarely ever do, that is apologize. I am sorry for my past behaviors on this forum. Of course that apology excludes you mac_attack, in my eyes you are a worthless piece of ***t and I will never show any remorse for what I've said to you. (come on attack me back brother, I'm waiting for ya!!! ).

 

meh...I really couldn't care less. It makes me oh soo happy to know that I pissed you off so much. Even if I don't get into any medical schools as you pray I won't, I'm satisfied knowing that I put someone in so much rage on an annonymous Internet forum. I'm also glad you opted to choose path C. I think you will be a tremendous role model for the youth of our country.

[doctaroo]

Yes, if you don't like to talk with patients in hospitals or if you are extremely shy, then medicine is certainly not the right field to choose. You should find a field which you are passionate about...a passionate field is one which you will likely contribute and ultimately get fulfillment out of. If you want to go to medicine for only prestige and money:eek: , sometime down the road, you will switch careers. Or you will just lead a very stressful life. You want to be good at what you do and be a valuable member of society. DrEvil is right...clerkship will be extremely stressful if you have very poor communication skills.