excalibre Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Hi, I was hoping someone who has gone through residency can help me with this one (or if anyone can dig up some statistics). I have interviewed at top 5 medical school in the states (WashU) and I am very interested in the school, but the price is exorbitant (as are most private American schools). I am wondering how these top American schools compare to a top Canadian institution (i.e. Toronto) for residency matching. I am interested in surgical specialties, and ideally would like to go to an ivy league or top university for my residency. Is it really worth all that dough to go to the U.S.? How does WashU compare to UofT, and top American schools vs. top Canadian ones? Thanks, excal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madz25 Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 If you're a Canadian citizen - would not having the H1B visa affect you negatively during residency matching? I remember the moderator for this forum (on the old boards) saying how some of his interview invites for residency were revoked once the schools became aware of his visa status...I'm not 100% on the details of this but it's something to look into when deciding to attend a US institution for med school/residency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonyvaio2700 Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Hi, I was hoping someone who has gone through residency can help me with this one (or if anyone can dig up some statistics). I have interviewed at top 5 medical school in the states (WashU) and I am very interested in the school, but the price is exorbitant (as are most private American schools). I am wondering how these top American schools compare to a top Canadian institution (i.e. Toronto) for residency matching. I am interested in surgical specialties, and ideally would like to go to an ivy league or top university for my residency. Is it really worth all that dough to go to the U.S.? How does WashU compare to UofT, and top American schools vs. top Canadian ones? Thanks, excal if you have a chance to go to WashU I would go for it. Dont worry about residency issues. It's a once in a lifetime oppurtunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonyvaio2700 Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Oh ya I would like to add...If you want to practice in Canada I would probably go to UofT. but if you thinking of getting in to say UMass surgery then Wash U will give you better odds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Madz' got a point.....I would think hard. For me personally it's not a huge issue, since I'm not necessarily gunning for a super-selective specialty, so I know if I don't get residency in the US, I can always come back here and do FP, which I will be if not happy, but satisfied with. But if you are trying to go into a super-competitive surgery specialty and end up not being able to stay in the US due to visa issues, and then also fail to match into that specialty in Canada, it's an issue you must seriously consider. I wouldn't put all your eggs into the American residency basket. Not to mention, laws change....today you still CAN get that visa occasionally, but they might crack down on it and say "no more foreign doctors" and make it impossible to get that visa, period. <----- got rejected 3 times for an F1 visa years ago (PRE 9/11) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuantum Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Oh ya I would like to add...If you want to practice in Canada I would probably go to UofT. but if you thinking of getting in to say UMass surgery then Wash U will give you better odds... Do you mean Mass General? If so, that's actually Harvard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonyvaio2700 Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Do you mean Mass General? If so, that's actually Harvard. Opp, you are right. I ment MGH. Yes I know its Harvard. Another good Harvard associated hospital is BIDMC. I am sure you can get residency to one of those hospitals as a UofT grad. but it sure will be easier if you come from Wash U, a top 5 school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonyvaio2700 Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Madz' got a point.....I would think hard. For me personally it's not a huge issue, since I'm not necessarily gunning for a super-selective specialty, so I know if I don't get residency in the US, I can always come back here and do FP, which I will be if not happy, but satisfied with. But if you are trying to go into a super-competitive surgery specialty and end up not being able to stay in the US due to visa issues, and then also fail to match into that specialty in Canada, it's an issue you must seriously consider. I wouldn't put all your eggs into the American residency basket. Not to mention, laws change....today you still CAN get that visa occasionally, but they might crack down on it and say "no more foreign doctors" and make it impossible to get that visa, period. <----- got rejected 3 times for an F1 visa years ago (PRE 9/11) I think if you come from US to Canada as a Wash U student, I think it means a lot...every residency director in Canada would love to attract a student from a top 5 university in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonyvaio2700 Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Caution warning...Ok, reading the SDN forums I found a interesting and somewhat disturbing read...please for those thinking about going to the US, read Renovar 2 posts: Post 1 Post 2 He scored a 241 on step one (1 STD away from mean) and went to a top 15 school...sometimes i wish i was american personally i would still go to Wash U over UofT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssc427 Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 personally i would still go to Wash U over UofT. This debate comes up all the time and as always I'll add my 2c. Last year I had interviews at WashU, Harvard, Stanford…. and ultimately turned down a top 10 to stay in Canada. I exhaustively researched things and came to the conclusion that you have more options overall coming from Canada. This was a very personal decision which you might also need to make (keep in mind that WashU interviews a huge number of people / spots so interview there certainly doesn’t = acceptance). I would have done my MD in the US if I was a multi-millionaire simply because I like the idea of spending a few years in some big US cities. Personally I would not have counted St. Louis among the cities I would be willing to live. IMO there is no difference between the quality of education at top US schools compared to any of the 8 Canadian schools I interviewed at. In fact I thought the clinical exposure at every Canadian school far superior to places like Harvard (however the research ops at big US schools are much better). Also, for me the difference between 80K debt coming from Canada vs 300K in the US was significant. And I can easily return for residency/fellowship and get paid to be there. I have maintained contact with faculty I met while interviewing which helps keep these doors open. So I’d suggest go to your interview with an open mind but unless you are 100% sure that you want to practice in the US aim for Canada first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Caution warning...Ok, reading the SDN forums I found a interesting and somewhat disturbing read...please for those thinking about going to the US, read Renovar 2 posts: Post 1 Post 2 He scored a 241 on step one (1 STD away from mean) and went to a top 15 school...sometimes i wish i was american personally i would still go to Wash U over UofT. Regarding the posts you linked, what is that whole problem with Health Canada not signing you over for a J1? Where does that stem from, and why would Canada have ANYTHING to do with an AMERICAN visa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Personally I would not have counted St. Louis among the cities I would be willing to live. St. Louis is small but we still do it all We hit the mall, we drink it all, we always gon' smoke it all Get hit, we shake it off, at the club yellin "take it off" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madz25 Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Regarding the posts you linked, what is that whole problem with Health Canada not signing you over for a J1? Where does that stem from, and why would Canada have ANYTHING to do with an AMERICAN visa? Don't quote me on this ...I think this is how it goes: Canadian government can only sign you for a J1 if there is a shortage of that specialty (something along those lines)...hence it is probably easier for you to get a J1 if you intend on pursuing FM or *possibly* psych (psych in US is 4 yrs whereas it's 5 yrs in Canada). I totally forgot about the problem of getting Canada to sign you for a J1...apparently some people have run into problems with that as well... Edited to add: Unless you do an 'equivalent' residency in the US with the intention of returning to Canada when you're done ...your best bet is to go with the H1B. J1 is a 'student visa' and has some other restrictions that H1B (a 'working visa' doesn't). Plus, H1B can lead you to a green card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonyvaio2700 Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Don't quote me on this ...I think this is how it goes: Canadian government can only sign you for a J1 if there is a shortage of that specialty (something along those lines)...hence it is probably easier for you to get a J1 if you intend on pursuing FM or *possibly* psych (psych in US is 4 yrs whereas it's 5 yrs in Canada). I totally forgot about the problem of getting Canada to sign you for a J1...apparently some people have run into problems with that as well... Edited to add: Unless you do an 'equivalent' residency in the US with the intention of returning to Canada when you're done ...your best bet is to go with the H1B. J1 is a 'student visa' and has some other restrictions that H1B (a 'working visa' doesn't). Plus, H1B can lead you to a green card. ya i think madz is correct about the J1 thing...sucks, doesnt it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excalibre Posted February 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Thanks all for your replies. When I go to the U.S. I will clearly try and become a U.S. citizen as well (hopefully I can become duel, but I'm not sure if that is only given in special circumstances). Heck maybe I'll marry a hick for a greencard (jokes...). But with respect to the J1, as I understand it, that is a very bad route. The reason is with respect to that letter the government of Canada gives. Since they are asking the U.S. government through NAFTA to take you on because there is a shortage of a certain skilled person you are supposed to go back to Canada (because that is where the shortage is, and this is supposed to quench that shortage). So the law is something along the lines of, after your training you must go back to Canada and you can't get any sort of visa for the U.S. for a two year period (I think). And also I have heard about this H1B to greencard track. *shrugs* One of the reasons I want to go to the U.S. is for research. However, I want to come back to Canada once I get the research going. I think Canada is a far superior place to raise children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippie Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 The problem is that if you study in the US, working there, is your only option to pay your loans back....otherwise it will take you like 15 years of work in canada to pay your debts! Anyways, do you know the list of residencies you can get a J-1 for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popcorn Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 so I'm a little confused.. are you saying that as a canadian , if we were to attend an american school then it is going to be very hard to obtain a medium to high competitve residency b/c hospitals won't want to take you due to visa issues? If so, How have ppl gotten around this? just settled with the hospitals that will take the visa we can get? Thsi is kind of worryingb/c I didn't know it woudl be such a problem to get residency or practice in the states aftergoing to a US school when ur a Canadian citizen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excalibre Posted February 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 so I'm a little confused..are you saying that as a canadian , if we were to attend an american school then it is going to be very hard to obtain a medium to high competitve residency b/c hospitals won't want to take you due to visa issues? If so, How have ppl gotten around this? just settled with the hospitals that will take the visa we can get? Thsi is kind of worryingb/c I didn't know it woudl be such a problem to get residency or practice in the states aftergoing to a US school when ur a Canadian citizen That is exactly what I am trying to figure out. I guess the only 'sure solution' is to be a stellar applicant so that they are happy to fill out the forms and stuff to have you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madz25 Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Being a stellar applicant will certainly help. I think there are also some loop holes...such as if you agree to work in a rural community for 'X' # of years, your J-1 will be waived and you will be given H1B...something along those lines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Being a stellar applicant will certainly help. I think there are also some loop holes...such as if you agree to work in a rural community for 'X' # of years, your J-1 will be waived and you will be given H1B...something along those lines... Are you for real? That's my Golden Ticket to the Bayou!!!! I must research this, pronto. Do you have any idea on who/where you heard it from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madz25 Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 jochi - i PMed you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meek Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Hmmm...interesting conversation. I was a J-1 student in the US (I had just finished my 3rd year of undergrad in Canada) for a summer internship a few years back. J-1 is incredibly easy to get, much easier than F-1. For my situation, I had to profusely show evidence that I will NOT remain in the US, but return to Canada once my internship was over. In my case, it was easy to proof coz i had to return to Canada to finish my degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoNair Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 Personally I would not have counted St. Louis among the cities I would be willing to live. St. Louis is not THAT bad a place to live. There are much worse places in North America to live. Of course there is much to be improved on here in STL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muchdutch Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 My parents went there recently for an extended (worldwide) family reunion. They said it was a great place to visit. It can't be that bad to live there can it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarzi Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 so I'm a little confused..are you saying that as a canadian , if we were to attend an american school then it is going to be very hard to obtain a medium to high competitve residency b/c hospitals won't want to take you due to visa issues? If so, How have ppl gotten around this? just settled with the hospitals that will take the visa we can get? Thsi is kind of worryingb/c I didn't know it woudl be such a problem to get residency or practice in the states aftergoing to a US school when ur a Canadian citizen http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=363725 no worries dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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